#205 – Why More Web Design Clients Won’t Fix Your Money Problems with Pam Jordan of Pivot To Profit

Shannon Mattern (00:01.314)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the profitable web designer podcast. And today I am joined by Pam Jordan, who is the founder of pivot business group, host of the pivot to profit podcast, which I recently had the honor of being a guest on. And Pam is a fractional CFO who helps service providers stop guessing about their finances and start using their numbers to win. So welcome to the profitable web designer podcast, Pam.

Pam Jordan (00:30.457)

Absolutely, I'm so pumped to be here, Shannon. You and I had such a good conversation last time. I'm super excited to continue it.

Shannon Mattern (00:37.096)

Yeah, I was like, I want to ask Pam all of the questions now after she got to ask me. So yeah, can you just tell our listeners a little bit more about you and what you do?

Pam Jordan (00:48.781)

Yeah, absolutely. So the short version is I own a company called Pivot Business Group and we help entrepreneurs and founders understand their numbers, increase their profitability, reduce their taxes and grow their wealth, which are all fun things that we love that a lot of entrepreneurs want, but they don't want to do the nitty gritty of. So we are the bookkeepers, the fractional CFOs and the tax strategists behind the scenes supporting entrepreneurs.

to make more money and pay less in taxes.

Shannon Mattern (01:19.694)

Don't we all love that? So can you, I want to know your origin story, your hero's journey to like how you got here doing this for entrepreneurs specifically. So tell me the backstory.

Pam Jordan (01:27.608)

Yeah.

Yes!

Pam Jordan (01:37.561)

Absolutely. So nine years ago, I was in bankruptcy court. The business that I worked for was a general contractor, multiple millions, 99 employees. And due to some business decisions, we were in bankruptcy court. And I had to go get a job. And I was like, I don't want to get a job. And unfortunately, the business was closed.

and got my guy's jobs. And at the end of the day, I realized that I had a skillset to help entrepreneurs better understand their numbers so no one else would be in bankruptcy court. And I wanted to build my own company and not someone else's. And I realized that as a fractional CFO, I'd be able to do that. this is actually our 10th year. So 10 years ago now, I started Pivot Business Group as a fractional CFO, standalone on myself.

And then I brought on a bookkeeper and then more bookkeepers and more CFOs. And in 2024, we brought on the tax team. And so now I have just under 30 people on my team helping clients understand their numbers because I sat there with the owner in court and had a judge and lawyers tell us that we were done. And I decided I wasn't going to do that again.

Shannon Mattern (02:49.624)

That is heartbreaking.

Pam Jordan (02:52.247)

It was dark times. There's a season of my life that I don't remember very much of. Just trying to survive that.

Shannon Mattern (03:01.582)

So yeah, what don't entrepreneurs understand about their numbers? What are the biggest places that you see? Either just we put our heads in the sand, we're not paying attention. What are those places?

Pam Jordan (03:20.525)

Yeah. So the biggest thing that I see, and this spans across industries, size, everything, is business owners ignoring their numbers. And they just say, well, I've got a bookkeeper. I have an accountant. I have somebody for that. There's money in the bank. I'm fine. And that's not the case because the numbers tell a story. And if you're not listening, you could be making bad decisions that are just going to run you into the ground.

No, you can't make that higher. No, you can't open in that second location because your numbers don't support it. And so the biggest mistake that I see across the board, I mean like multi-seven figure founders is ignoring their numbers and not owning them. Because at the end of the day, it's your business and it's your money. So you've got to own it and you've got to have key metrics that you're looking at a weekly monthly basis to make sure that your business is going in the right direction. Do I expect the owners to reconcile their books? Absolutely not. I don't reconcile my

I have a bookkeeper, right? But what I do expect is you need to look at your financials and see what they're saying and have a forward looking view. And if you need a fractional CFO, great, go to pivotbusinessgroup.com. We'd love to help you. But like you need someone to help you understand your numbers. If you don't understand them, you need to make sure they're current and accurate and you can't just delegate it and think it's fine. I have met with entrepreneurs just literally weeping.

because they came in, we did our analysis and I showed them what was actually going on in their books and they were just so at a loss. Like they thought everything was fine, like a little tight, but then once we explain what's actually gone on in the numbers, they just fall apart.

Shannon Mattern (04:59.851)

Yeah, so there's the, I've got money in the bank, I'm fine. And when the real picture is showing like, maybe you're not fine, what is, when you're like not looking at their numbers, not understanding their numbers, not understanding the story of their numbers, what is the difference between I've got money in the bank, I'm fine versus the story the numbers is telling that's actually like telling a different.

story because I could imagine listeners listening to this being like, I look at my numbers, you Pam, you could have talked to me two or three years ago and I would have been like, I'm totally on top of my numbers. I checked my bank balances. I paid my credit card statements on time. I pay those balances off every month. I'm fine. But one bad month and I'm no longer fine. But I thought I was I would have sworn I'm on top of my numbers.

Pam Jordan (05:58.509)

Yeah. And ultimately, I hear you and the definition is, yes, the bank balance is important, but just because there's money in the bank doesn't mean it's your money. And that is so huge. And that's why you need to understand the financial reports, the P &L, the profit and loss, the income statement, all of those three things mean the same thing. It's the same report. People just like to make it confusing. And your balance sheet. Like you need to understand those two reports and look at them on a monthly basis to know

how much of that money that came in can you actually keep? Because far too often entrepreneurs are doing bank balance accounting and they're pulling up their bank account saying, great, I've got five grand, I'm good to go. But then forget that the Amex bill is due or their rent payment or payroll or payroll taxes are gonna be auto-draft and all of a sudden they're out of money, right? And so part of it is you need your financial statements to know your numbers, to know where you've been looking in the rear of your mirror.

But then the other piece is you need a budget or a cash flow to be forward looking. So of the five grand that's in the bank, how much of it is yours? How much of it is already spoken for? What do you have access to? Because so, so many people just think the money's theirs and it's not.

Shannon Mattern (07:13.817)

yeah. mean, payroll, expenses, taxes, all of those things. It's like, yeah, for sure. So what is, what are the characteristics? So I see this with web designers all the time where that's, that's who we serve, but we also serve other like service providers too, where they are pricing, like their pricing is based on like

I'm going to charge based on what I think the value of my skills are or the market value. I see you shaking your head for listeners out there. Pam is shaking her head vigorously. They base their pricing on what they think their skills are worth, what they think the market value is. How should service providers be approaching their pricing in relation to everything that we just discussed?

Pam Jordan (08:09.145)

Absolutely. So I'm shaking my head vigorously because so many service providers under price their services because they don't understand all that goes into it. They have money trauma. When they should be charging $8,000, they are charging three because they feel a self of like that they're not worthy of it or they don't have enough experience for the 8,000 billed when it really should be an $8,000 bill. So when it comes to pricing, the first thing is most of you are not charging enough and I'm

I'm just here for it. We work with hundreds of entrepreneurs and then the last 18 months, the biggest problem that we've seen in six, seven, multi-seven figure businesses is pricing. So when it comes to pricing, Shannon, the first thing that you want to do is start at the bottom. How much profit do you want and need to make? How much money do you need to pay yourself a distribution, to pay the principal portion of your debt, to put aside for tax planning?

to put aside for investment in new software, new team members. How much money do you want to make? That's the first number you need to decide. And in the software or in the web development designer space, that should be like minimum 25%. Like 25 is the floor of what you should be making. I have a client that's in the 60s of net profit. So if I'm saying words that don't make sense, go to AI and ask what your net profit.

is and how to calculate it. So if we're saying for easy math, you wanted a 25 % net profit on a build, then you need to then look at your direct costs. Because if you have any subcontractors, maybe you have a content person, you have a graphic person, you have a coder person, whatever those costs are, you need to add up. And then you need to look at your overhead. And this could be your salary. This is your software. This is your rent. This is at any advertising costs that you have.

And a lot of people, business owners, when they're doing pricing, don't account for overhead because they're like, well, I have to pay it anyway. OK, but you have to pay it anyway with the money that you collect. Unless you're going to pay overhead out of your pocket, unless you're going to pay for Zoom and Kajabi and whatever out of your pocket, you need to charge your services. That needs to be part of your service cost. And so once you know what your target profit is,

Pam Jordan (10:34.253)

what your direct costs are and what your overhead costs are, then you get your pricing. And when it comes to overhead, you can do it just as a percentage or you can do it as a flat. Like if I know I can do two builds a month and my monthly costs are a thousand dollars, that means you need to add $500 to each build just to pay your monthly software and your rent and those things. Easy math. And that's how you figure out what to charge your client. So you might be charging $3,000, but once you look at your target profit,

your overhead and your direct costs is costing you like you have to charge $5,000 just to make a profit. And far too many service providers are undercharging and devaluing their services and not making money. And they're looking at the bank account and they're like, but I'm working so hard, where's my money? And the answer is you're not charging enough because you're not considering the profit, your direct costs and a percentage of your overhead that needs to be accounted for.

Shannon Mattern (11:30.764)

my gosh, preach. Thank you so much for breaking that down. That is this podcast, the profitable web designer is all about helping web designers cover that gap, make money, make a profit, have their business be profitable and sustainable. And the thing that happens is when they sit down and they run those numbers, they get sticker shock. They're like, my gosh, I couldn't possibly charge that much.

No one would pay that much. They think that that number is astronomical. And what we help you do is completely shift how you're thinking about the value of what you do for your clients and start tying that price that you want to charge that you need to charge in order to ever make this work. We teach you how to tie that to outcomes and results that you create for your clients versus

what you think you can, what you think you're worth an hour. So you have to have a completely different conversation in your sales process, in your marketing, in your proposals, in how you deal with your clients altogether. You have to change your paradigm of how you're thinking about how you run your business at its core from a cost-based model to a value-based model.

If you're going to ever have a profitable, sustainable business, Pam just broke the reason, like the underlying financial reasons, down for you as to why that is. But if you are trying to go out there and compete with everybody else charging hourly and you're like, well, here's what I sell. I sell a 10 page website with these bells and whistles and my price is 5,000. And they're like, but why is this other person charging 1500?

And you're like, I guess I can't charge that much. It's because you're selling the wrong thing. You're not selling a website. You're selling outcomes and results and opportunity costs and all of the other things that make your price worth it to your client, but it has to be worth it to you to deliver. So that's my soapbox on all of this.

Pam Jordan (13:43.555)

I guess, absolutely, because there are far too many talented people out there under pricing themselves, where quite frankly, they could just go work for someone else and make more money and work less, right? Like a lot of service providers really quit their job to start a business, to have freedom of time and money and just have a low paying job that has long hours that they just happen to be their own boss.

Shannon Mattern (13:54.7)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (14:11.437)

Yeah.

Pam Jordan (14:11.641)

And if you own your numbers, you understand the financial statements, you understand your cashflow and you charge the value, and I love how you say that, the impact and the value of what you're bringing to your client, your website's not 5,000, it's 8,000. I understand they're $1,500. They're not using the skills that you have. They're not looking at the psychology of the target audience. They're not looking at the graphic of all the things that go in that you bring that's huge.

value to a client that someone else isn't. And that's what you need to sell.

Shannon Mattern (14:45.397)

Yeah. And, know, for those of you listening, we teach our package matrix strategy for package pricing and selling, services at two to three times more than what you think you can without working two to three times harder to help you shift into that. definitely go to webdesigneracademy.com and get your hands on our package matrix template and training, because you cannot keep

And I love that you just said like, might as well go work for someone else and it would be easier and you'd make more money. Like, you know, there are trade-offs. There are absolutely trade-offs to working for someone else. When you price profitably and sustainably with the right model for your business, you can have the freedom and flexibility that you've been working so hard to create. And that's

That's the beauty of being an entrepreneur, right Pam? We get to make all the rules for ourselves.

Pam Jordan (15:44.697)

Absolutely. Absolutely. And we get to take the risks, but we also get the rewards. So if you're going to start your own business as a web designer and you're going to go through Shannon's program and understand how to do it, that's amazing. But that brings freedom, but that's a risk. But then what happens in six months when you're making twice as much as you did working for someone else and you're actually home for dinner, you're not grinding 60 hours a week. That's what entrepreneurship and understanding your numbers

Shannon Mattern (15:50.476)

Mm-hmm.

Pam Jordan (16:13.505)

and pricing properly does for an entrepreneur. And that's our goal when we work with clients is we want you to have that freedom. Nobody wants to be grinding 60, 70, 80 hours a week for less money than they had at their last W2.

Shannon Mattern (16:27.287)

So when someone comes to work with you and you're like, OK, here is the story of your business. And here's the gap between what you're currently charging and what you need to be charging for all of this to work. What is that like for them? Is it a light bulb moment? Is it like a deer in headlights moment? What is that moment like for people?

Pam Jordan (16:46.425)

Yeah.

Pam Jordan (16:53.183)

an emotional moment. And sometimes, like there's always emotions. And unfortunately, a lot of times there's like shame and guilt of like, what do you mean? I'm not making money. What do mean I should have been charging more? Like, I didn't know, you know, and there's that. And then there's also the aha moment. I had a client and a service provider. She's like, so you mean every time we get a dollar from our clients, it costs us a dollar 50 to service them. And I said, yes. And she just lost it.

Shannon Mattern (17:00.46)

Yeah.

Pam Jordan (17:23.577)

Like she just didn't understand. Like she thought her pricing was okay and there was money in the bank, but there was never enough. And she was always just chasing. Like the next client paid for the current client, right? And so was robbing Peter to pay Paul kind of thing. And so she finally just got it. I'm like, oh my gosh, every dollar I come in. And I was like, yeah. So like if someone, client comes to you and you give them a quarter and tell them to have a nice day, you save yourself a quarter.

Shannon Mattern (17:52.66)

Wow.

Pam Jordan (17:52.695)

Right? Because otherwise it's costing you 50 cents to service this client. Like just give them a quarter and you saved yourself 25 cents. And she's like, my gosh. So immediately we went and did a pricing adjustment on an all new business and the price increased on existing contracts and did change the pricing model and all that because it was just like, I had no idea. And I was like, literally you should give them a quarter and you're going to be better off.

Shannon Mattern (18:20.813)

So how does someone, that moment has gotta be like the wake up call, right? Because I want everybody listening. I don't want you to have to have that wake up call to make the change that you probably really need to make in your pricing. But how, I can only imagine how much courage it took her to do that overhaul. Like the emotional,

Pam Jordan (18:26.841)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (18:49.463)

getting through the, but what if I lose all my clients if I raise my prices? But what if I never get another client again? But also what you're looking at is you're harming your business now, like the risk of, like, what is your advice for someone in that situation when they're like, I see what you're saying, but I'm scared.

Pam Jordan (19:11.225)

Sure, so, and those are all valid things that we get told, but we always tie it back to goals. So when we engage with clients, we start with goals, what's important to them. And so for this particular client, one of her goals was to have a farm for her family, right? She wanted to, not a homesteader, but that kind of a thing, right? And so I just went back to her goals and I was like,

Look, Sarah, that's not her name, but Sarah, like, you said you wanted that farm with those animals to raise your kids. If that's still a priority, we need to make these tough decisions. Because if we don't raise our prices, there's going to be no farm. And quite frankly, there's not going to be a business. Because with our cash forecast, you're out of business in eight weeks, and then you have to go get a job. So yes, those are hard. Are you going to lose clients? Yeah.

but you're not making money on them now. So all the new clients that pay the new rate, you know you're going to make money on, which gets you closer to that farm. So we always tie those hard moments with goals. And then it's the entrepreneurs choice to decide what they want to do because it's just numbers. put a lot, there's so much emotion around money, but it's just numbers, right? Like if a web designer doesn't want to charge $10,000 for a build,

for whatever money trauma or challenges or whatever they have, but they're not, they don't make money? Okay, well, if your goal is to not have a nine to five that you respond, that you answer to someone else, you need to raise your prices or you have to go back to the nine to five, right? Like what's important to you? Because doing more work at a loss just makes you broke faster. So let me explain that. So say for example, you're doing builds at five grand, but you're,

fixed costs overhead costs are seven grand a build. That means every build you do is $2,000. And so a lot of people think they can just sell their way out of it. So they're like, I'll just sell more builds. So instead of doing one build a month, they're going to do two builds a month. Okay, well, instead of losing two grand this month, you're now losing four grand. How many months of that can you do before you don't make payroll? You can't pay your rent.

Pam Jordan (21:39.671)

and your credit card is maxed, not very many. And so that's what people need to understand by undercharging. You are making yourself broke faster. It is not a volume problem, it is a pricing problem.

Shannon Mattern (21:52.469)

and you're working twice as hard. And the cost of getting double the clients is even more than getting the one. And so it just compounds.

Pam Jordan (21:56.057)

for less money.

Pam Jordan (22:03.779)

Yes.

Shannon Mattern (22:05.844)

You said that so clearly, clearer than I've ever heard anyone else say that. So thank you for saying that. Doing more work at a loss just makes you broke faster. You've talked about money trauma and the emotion around money. That is a huge thing that we work on here at the Web Designer Academy because it is the number one thing that holds people back from

Pam Jordan (22:06.167)

and just snowballs.

Shannon Mattern (22:34.698)

charging profitably and sustainably doing the scary thing, raising their prices, taking those bigger risks, because like you said, it is just numbers. But when there's a layer of trauma on top of it, it's easier said than done, right? So what are some of the most common money traumas that you see? what's the reframe for those things?

Cause you've been through it too. You've had that dark day, you know?

Pam Jordan (23:02.583)

Yeah.

Absolutely. And so I see a lot of scarcity mindset, a lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of you have to work hard for money. It shouldn't be easy. Even some recently encountered some entrepreneurs of like, money was evil. So I shouldn't want it. Right? Right. You know, and I'm not, I've not

Shannon Mattern (23:10.539)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (23:18.561)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (23:28.66)

I'm bad if I want it. I'm bad if I have it. Yeah.

Pam Jordan (23:35.097)

I'm not a psychologist. Have I done a lot of work and paid a lot of smart people to help me work through mindset? Yes. So I can speak from my experience and what I've learned from them. But our subconscious by the time we're five to seven is built around money. Like our beliefs on money, we're done by then. So if you're a parent right now and you tell you you're talking with your spouse or your partner in front of your kids about we don't have the money for that, your kids hear that. So like.

Shannon Mattern (23:59.937)

That's all I heard growing up. So yes.

Pam Jordan (24:02.265)

Like right now as a parent curb your money talk and change your narrative as an entrepreneur You need to understand that there's a ceiling of wealth that you will have based on your limiting belief in yourself and your money trauma So if you're like, there's no way I can pay I can charge 10 grand for a build my stuff's not good enough It's not worth it. Blah blah blah. It is time to get some help and I have my podcast I forget what her name is, but she's a hypnotherapist that does money trauma

I had another girl on my podcast that does put you in a sweat lodge with some psychedelics that does money drama, right? Like there's executive coaches that do money drama. But if you can't charge 10 grand for a build because of what's inside of you, not because of your work product, it is time to get help. as entrepreneurs, like as CFOs, we understand our clients goals. We understand our pain points. And so when we see money trauma coming up, we'll do baseline work like

Shannon Mattern (24:38.409)

you

Pam Jordan (25:02.073)

Let's talk about some money. Let's get some mantras together. Let's get some, what do we know to be true here? Right? Like I'm not a psycho, you're a psychotherapist, but like, is it true that the world's gonna end if you charge 10 grand for a build? No. What's the worst thing that can happen? A client says no. Okay. But the best thing that can happen is they say yes, and you actually make money. What do you, like what's worth it? I had one,

client that I worked with, we came up with a phrase and she's like, I love money and money loves me. Right. And she like, it was on a Post-it note on her screen. I love money and money loves me. And so whenever she would get stuck in the cycle of the subconscious, she would just look at her Post-it note. I love money and money loves me. And so like when we sat down and we went over her financials, I love money and money loves me. And so just like believe in those things. at a base level, you need to first understand what lies.

Shannon Mattern (25:36.704)

Yeah.

Pam Jordan (26:01.049)

where you taught about money that created your subconscious belief about money. And I very rarely find someone that had a healthy childhood belief about money. Like 99.8 of the entrepreneurs that I deal with were jacked up as a kid because of money, right? Like, you know, grew up with no presents at Christmas, know, dad working three jobs, mom and dad arguing about money.

Shannon Mattern (26:12.172)

Thank

Pam Jordan (26:27.801)

didn't get the car they wanted when they turned 16, because they couldn't afford it. Like all of those things. So first identify what belief that you have that you need to work through. And then decide, is it something that like a mantra or like, do you need psychedelics? Do you need a psychotherapist? Do you just need an energy coach? Do you need hypnotherapy? Like, what do you need to get through this? Because you will 100 %

hit a ceiling in your revenue, in your business, until you change your mindset.

Shannon Mattern (27:01.104)

so good. And I want to tell all of our listeners a little secret. Our package matrix strategy that we teach you inside of the Web Designer Academy is what I call a benevolent bait and switch because it helps you put three different options in front of your client, an investment-minded option.

a hustle or hybrid minded option and an expense minded option because what I've seen is there, well, just like you said, Pam, are ways people think about money in different ways. People think about it in like, oh, I'm going to pay you $10,000 and it's actually going to help me create 10 times more than that versus someone who's like,

$10,000, that's 10,000 out of my pocket that I'll never see again. And then there's someone who's in the middle like $10,000, that's a stretch, but I'm willing to work really hard for it, right? So we help you take your current web design package and package matrix it for an investment minded client, a hustle minded client, an expense minded client. But the secret is that you think no one would ever pay that investment minded price. So I tell you, sky's the limit. Just, you know,

This no one's even ever gonna buy this it's here to position the mid level offer as the best one. It's the wingman It's the if you've ever watched how I met your mother. It's the Barney the you know, flashy guy and he's like have you met Ted and Ted's like the normal guy and then you have like You know the the lower end offer for the budget-minded person, but you're not doing nearly as much work at that level So it's like a win-win, right? So you walk into

your sales conversation feeling really safe to offer the $35,000 billed that you used to charge $10,000 for. No one's ever going to buy that one anyway. Well, what happens for almost all of our clients when you do your positioning the way we teach and we teach you to structure it, people are like, yeah, that's the one I want. And when can we get started? And people are like,

Shannon Mattern (29:12.788)

What just happened? Wait, you want to pay me more? There is no possible way that's, you know, and I'm like, I have to even trick you guys into making an offer at a higher price by telling you it's just there just to make this one. And then when people buy it, your mind is blown. And it's because your nervous system won't let you believe that someone would pay you that much. So I have to like,

kind of bait and switch you into even putting that option in front of someone in the first place. And almost every single one of our Web Designer Academy students is like, my gosh, I just sold a project for 15,000 that I used to charge 5,000 for. I get it now. I get it now. There are people out there who will pay that much. And I'm like, I had to weave you around the maze to get you there. But sometimes that's the faster way than getting

Pam Jordan (30:02.937)

Eheh

Shannon Mattern (30:10.228)

you to change your money mindset like on your own. So it's both and we want you to like examine your thoughts about money, decide whether or not they're creating wanted or unwanted results for you. But we're also going to give you very strategic tools for overriding your default money mindset so that you can charge more. So as you were saying all of that, I'm just like, I'm just going to tell them that I've been tricking them this whole time to get them to charge more. And plus, I'm just going to say it women will ask for more.

Pam Jordan (30:33.442)

Hahaha!

Shannon Mattern (30:39.594)

We don't ask for more. We don't ask for more in raises and job negotiations. We certainly don't do it in our services. So if I have to trick you into asking for more with their package matrix strategy, I'm going to do it.

Pam Jordan (30:55.129)

Because you know it works. And if you're talented and good, it's worth it. And people will say yes, even if you don't think they will. And that one time you sell it for 15,000, it gives you the confidence to ask for it again. And the next client and the next client.

Shannon Mattern (31:02.369)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (31:09.26)

Uh huh. Yep. So good. Pam, I could talk to you about this for forever. I have just a couple more questions for you. And the first one I ask everybody that comes onto this podcast is what belief about yourself did you have to change to get to where you are today?

Pam Jordan (31:33.175)

that I needed help, that I needed, that like I couldn't build a multi seven figure company with a big team by myself. Like that I would need a partner or that I would need someone to help me. And you know what? I didn't.

Shannon Mattern (31:35.316)

Ooh, tell me more.

Shannon Mattern (31:51.476)

So what was the digging more into that? What was the, I know you didn't, but why didn't you? What was the?

Pam Jordan (32:06.657)

I think it stemmed from just early on in my life of like, I needed help to learn things. I needed help to figure things out. And I had a very amazing relationship with my father who's taught me a lot. And my mom was a very strong female as well. And so was just like, I always had help. so when it was like building someone else's business as an employee was fine. But then once it was out on my own, I was like, maybe I...

Shannon Mattern (32:17.866)

Yeah

Shannon Mattern (32:24.736)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (32:34.922)

you

Pam Jordan (32:35.597)

Do I need help? Do I need to go partner with someone or can I just do this? And so I just started doing it myself and then here we are 10 years later and I didn't need help, you know, but it's just the, that was the limiting belief of like, well, there's no way I could build something like this by myself. And you know what? I sure did.

Shannon Mattern (32:47.796)

I love that so much.

Shannon Mattern (32:59.83)

So good. What does it look like to work with you? When someone comes to work with you, what does that journey look like for them? Where does it start and where do you go?

Pam Jordan (33:08.185)

Absolutely. Yeah. So the first step is a conversation, right? So just meeting with my team, understand what your goals are, what your pain points are, where's your numbers at? Like, do you have a bookkeeper? Do you have a big tax bill? You know, how many entities do you have? Just the logistics, right? And then step one is an analysis. And that's where we look under the hood and we look at your financial reporting. We look at your accounting software. We look at your last two tax returns and we figure out, can we trust the numbers?

And 90 % of the time, a lot of the books are garbage. Sorry to tell you, but it's still like, they're just bad. So we tell you what's wrong with your books and what it's going to take to fix them. We look at your taxes and find you at least seven, minimum seven grand of tax savings. We did three of these analysis calls this week. All total, we found over $300,000 in tax savings for three clients, just because there were strategies that they didn't know about, their other professionals weren't helping with.

all of that. And then we give CFO recommendations. So your pricing seems off, your cash flow is a challenge. We need to look at your payroll as a percentage. But that analysis brings a whole lot of value. So right away, you know, can I trust my numbers? And if not, what's wrong with them? What am I leaving on the table and overpaying the IRS? And then from a CFO or Chief Financial Officer perspective, what do I need to do to fix my business? So it's a really quick value.

The next phase is renovation. That's where we fix everything. So we get your books current, get them all cleaned up. We set you up with tax strategies, start implementing right away. And then CFO start rolling there, get you a budget, get you a cash flow, understand the forward looking view of your business when it comes to your money. And then stage three is implementation, which is just ongoing services. We can do weekly or monthly bookkeeping. You can meet with a CFO once a month, twice a month, four times a month. And then you meet with your tax strategist four times a year.

We take care of it all in one stop. So that's our process.

Shannon Mattern (35:05.395)

So good. And where can everybody go to kick that process off with you?

Pam Jordan (35:10.713)

Absolutely. Just go to pamjordan.com and schedule a call with my team.

Shannon Mattern (35:17.514)

Amazing. So we'll link up all of that in the show notes. Definitely go check out the Pivot to Profit podcast. I'll link up my interview on that podcast and then you can check out the other Money Mindset people that Pam has and just start binging those episodes as well. So Pam, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

Pam Jordan (35:39.587)

Absolutely, thank you so much for having me and hopefully this was valuable to your audience.