#174 – November 2025 Income Report

Shannon Mattern (00:01.653)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the profitable web designer podcast. Today I'm bringing you my November 2025 income report and I'm joined by our client success coordinator Erica Nash who is my co-host on these income report episodes. So Erica, welcome to the show.

Erica Nash (00:21.634)

Hello, excited to be here.

Shannon Mattern (00:24.799)

So every month we do an income report on this podcast where I break down what our inflow was for the month, how much money we made, how we made it, what our outflow was for the month, how much money we spent and how we spent it, and all of the lessons learned along the way. And we do that because we know that how we think about money,

really tells a big story about how we think about a lot of things in our business. And it's just a great way to look at our thoughts about our business and how our thoughts are creating wanted and unwanted results. And at the Web Designer Academy, we give you a lot of systems, processes, and strategies, but it's truly your mindset about what you believe is possible for yourself.

that is going to determine whether you send out a proposal with low prices or you send out a proposal with high prices. And literally, like, what, a half hour before this income report, Erica, we got a really fun message in our community from someone who's like, I just sold my highest price package.

And I wasn't going to charge that much until Shannon gave me some feedback that told me that I could charge more. And I did. And they said yes. And so it was she changed nothing else but her belief about what was possible for her, put a different number on there, and got a yes. like mindset is everything I know. Nobody wants to buy mindset. Nobody, know, all of those things.

Erica Nash (02:10.089)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (02:11.615)

but it literally is everything. So that's why we do this to help you really take a look at, we take a look at our money mindset all the time and it's to help you too. So yeah, any thoughts on that Erica before we kind of kick this off?

Erica Nash (02:30.22)

my goodness. just, I think it is so fascinating because mindset is so vague and broad. I think, and I think that that's why, and I mean, let's be real. There are a lot of people out there that coach to mindset in a really scammy, spammy, gross way. And I think that could put

Shannon Mattern (02:40.947)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (02:54.513)

Hmm. Interesting.

Erica Nash (02:58.958)

a bad taste in people's mouths. And so just, think that, I don't know, I just think that it's important that, I don't know if important is the right word, but just that like when we're referring to mindset, it really is about all of the things, like how you think about those things. And like you said, how we think about money.

of determines everything. How we think about money is how we think about everything.

Shannon Mattern (03:33.385)

Yeah. And the fun thing that I love at the Web Designer Academy with our systems processes and all of the things is we have systems and processes for managing your mindset. It's not just like this nebulous esoteric thing. It really is like very, very practical. So we'll get to talk about that a little bit today. So I'm going to hand it over to you, Erica, to ask me all of the questions and then we'll just, it goes where it goes.

Erica Nash (04:02.222)

Amazing. So let's talk about the inflow for November 2025. Where did it come from?

Shannon Mattern (04:08.986)

Yeah, so our inflow for November was $15,057.16 and it literally just came from Web Designer Academy payment plans. So we had no new students join in November, either of our programs. I think maybe we had a couple of renewals, but it was all like Web Designer Academy and Next Level Mastermind payment plans in November. So

We can dive into a little bit more about that a little bit later, because I definitely had some mind trashy thoughts around that that had me be like, time to put my money where my mouth is in terms of mindset for sure. So that was really interesting. But yeah, that was just a really typical month, like a month that what it would look like if with no new.

nothing new coming in. And I was listening to the November 2024 income report earlier today, because I wanted to see like, oh, what did things look like last year. And last November, I think it was like 10,000 was our inflow. So I'm like, hey, like we increased, you know, over last November by 5,000.

But as I was looking back at the past four months, which I think last month was over 40,000, and this month was 15, I got to really manage my thoughts around that. So it was really interesting. But yeah, that's what our inflow was in November.

Erica Nash (05:58.584)

So let's talk about the outflow. So where did it go?

Shannon Mattern (06:04.276)

Yeah, so our outflow was $28,957.55. And so about 20,000 of that was just our normal monthly operating expenses, about $10,000 for payroll for me and Erica, about 2,000 for the tools that we use to run the business. I always think of that as like,

our extra little employee that's like, it's like, you know, maybe 20 different tools that we're using to like automate stuff and, run the business. And then our normal like marketing expenses, like podcast production, conversion rate optimization, the rebrand project, like all of those pieces and parts for our marketing expenses. I also,

Erica Nash (06:31.959)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (06:57.78)

I also had some professional services. The project I'm working on with my financial strategist, Jen Boss. We had a quarterly payment come out for that in November, paying down the line of credit. So those were like the normal expenses. And then out of the ordinary, we had about 4,000 of that went.

to the next level retreat, which happened in November. So the 4,000 was like, the second payments on different things that we paid deposits on, the food, like all of the things that happened during that month. I took a $3,000 owner draw in November. So normally I would just pay myself my paycheck, but for the...

past few months I've been taking an owner draw on top of that, which is what I used to do back in the day before I cut my salary down. Also, I joined a networking group called the Prosper Network and it's a paid networking group. So we can talk a little bit more about that and why I did that and what my plans are for that. But it was recommended to me by a friend who's like, you really need to be in this room.

And after attending one of their events, I totally agreed and I'm like, yep, I'm in, let's do this. There were some benefits that came with making a single payment. So I did that. And then also I purchased a program after going through my 25 questions to help me make a financial decision to help me create a licensing program for our package matrix curriculum.

Um, so that was 1500. So about 20,000 of that 28,000 was just like normal, regular monthly operational stuff. About 9,000 would be like that, you know, the 8,957 would be like out of the ordinary stuff. But I had the money in my cash reserves to make those investments. Um, and so none of it was like.

Shannon Mattern (09:17.236)

out of like off the wall, like unexpected. I would say a couple of them were unplanned, but I'm like, I thought through like, okay, yes, I wanna like take advantage of this opportunity now. So yeah, so we drew about 14,000 out of our reserves in November and it was there because...

it was there because we had overflow in past months. So it all kind of evens out in the end. So yeah, that was our, that was our outflow for November.

Erica Nash (09:54.944)

I love that. One, sounds like November was a really big month in terms of like things that happened and we're going to have a lot to dig into for, you know, lessons learned or just big things. And the other thing I think is there's just something about the way that you just said, like, you know, the $14,000, it was in the reserves and it was like the first thought that I had was that

money's a tool and it did the job that it was there to do. Like that's it. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (10:27.551)

Yeah, exactly.

The goal is, like my personal business goal is to every, like the vision is that every single month, my inflow is more than my outflow. That is the goal. Like that's the plan that I've been working towards. And also like I have, I run the business such that I have reserves for when for whatever reason, we don't do that.

Like, so I have the resources to cover the ebbs and flows. And what I've been working on for the past, over the past year was like, on our last income report, Erica, you had said, like, I'd be so curious what you think about what's like, how different you feel from like this year to this time last year. So I listened to our October.

2024 income report and then November 2024 income report just like in the past couple of days. And in my October 2024 income report, I said something like, I'm just going to set the intention to create $40,000 revenue months. And I'm not going to obsess over like how it's going to happen or anything, but I'm just going to like decide that's what I want. then and then like take the action and everything will fall into place. Well, guess what?

Last October, we had a $40,000 revenue month. And so I'm like, OK, so that's how that works. If I just decide and trust and get out of my own way and let things unfold and allow them to happen, which kind of comes back to the next level retreat, it's all going to work out and it's going to be fine. So it's not like I'm sitting back doing nothing and just being like, it's just going to magically show up.

Shannon Mattern (12:30.096)

need to stress and worry about it.

I can look at the revenue over the past 12 months and compare it to the 12 months before. And we're definitely trending in the direction that I want to go in. And I can imagine that my next, why not $60,000 months? I don't need to know how it's going to happen. I don't need to hustle and burn myself in the ground to create that.

I do believe if I decide that it's possible, just like I was like, 40 is possible. I've done it before. I did it back when I ran the free five-day website challenge.

This 40 was exclusively the Web Designer Academy and I never did that before. It was always a mix of different, the two businesses I was running side by side. I'm like, well, if I just believe that it's possible, can make it like it'll happen. So there's no sense in worrying about it or stressing about it.

Erica Nash (13:30.23)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (13:42.656)

Yeah, my gosh, I love this so much. It reminds me of recently, and I say recently within the last couple of months, I heard a just a snippet of an interview with I think it was Kerry Washington. And I believe the context was they were talking about success. And no matter your belief system, I believe that this sort of applies. But she said,

you pray to catch the bus and then you run as fast as you can to catch the bus. And then if you didn't catch the bus, it wasn't your bus. And so there's just something about that. would like that really stuck with me and kind of like what you're saying. Like if, if you believe that's possible and you do, you take the actions, you just, you just move differently if you believe that it's possible. And maybe you take

shots that you wouldn't have taken before. Maybe you put yourself out there in a way. And I think that's what we're getting at when we're talking about, you know, like the way you believe, how you believe about money is how you believe everything. And like why your mindset is so important is because it just truly does guide the way that you move and how you make decisions and allows you to maybe move in a way that you've never moved before.

which creates what's never been created before.

Shannon Mattern (15:10.708)

Hmm.

I love that so much. So here's what happened. It's November 29th. And I'm like, no one's enrolled in the web designer Academy at this month, starting to feel really anxious and nervous and worried about like November's revenue. And I noticed those old thoughts creeping back in like, this is it. And it's so funny that I even say this now, because when I listened back to like,

that October, November income report, I think maybe we had had a lower than expected month like in September, so one of the months. And literally I said the exact same thing then that I wrote down when I was journaling about this now, which tells me all that is is a well-worn neural pathway that my brain just like is like, here's what we do when we expected or wanted or planned for one thing and it's

Erica Nash (16:02.606)

Right?

Shannon Mattern (16:13.028)

it's less money, Shannon's brain is going to go to this is it. I see I knew it. We're never going to enroll another person again. The same exact thoughts. is fascinating to document. I'm like, so what that tells me is, one, I never needed to believe it in the first place. But just seeing how automatic and exact it was, was like, this is just

Erica Nash (16:26.125)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (16:41.05)

a well-worn neural pathway. These are just thoughts. I don't have to believe any of this. And one of the things that we did at the next level retreat was I taught everybody about next level thinking. So I noticed myself feeling really anxious and having like these thought loops. And then I'm like, you know what my next step is? Next level thinking. So I got out a piece of, got out my notebook.

And I literally wrote down every single thought that I was having. I probably have 40 mind trashy thoughts on this list. I could read them all to you, but they're all lies. Like they are all lies that my brain is telling me. And there is a version of me that would have believed all of these things and acted from all of them being true.

Erica Nash (17:25.484)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (17:37.004)

Hmm.

Shannon Mattern (17:37.417)

Like the first thought that I wrote was November was a slow month. Now people could argue that that's like, no, that's a fact. Like if October was 40,000 and November was 15, clearly November was a slow month. But what we know is how we think drives how we feel drives our actions, creates our results. So if I think in November was a slow month and I feel anxious, the actions I'm going to take are to like,

not stay the course and not follow the plan that a version of me who was operating with higher level thinking created and start doing things out of like worry, anxiety and panic. And so I literally like wrote all of those things down. And then I like started putting them into our next level thinking process and

I kid you not, I literally felt the shift in my brain. Like I felt as I was going through the process, I even wrote it down. Like I literally just felt my higher level thinking kick back online. And there was a physical and mental shift. And I was like, here are actually like,

Erica Nash (18:56.782)

Mm.

Shannon Mattern (19:07.844)

real like tests I could do or things I could try or do or not do or maybe I just don't have to do anything and just stay the course through the end of the year. And I think that that is like a big, huge, like deal that I decided to not believe all of the things that my all that worry and panic that my brain wanted me to wanted to give me and make me think things are going wrong.

Erica Nash (19:26.509)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (19:38.549)

to be like, well, here's some creative ways that you could maybe incentivize more people to join at the end of the year. Whether it works out or not, the end of the year is like an arbitrary date and time. What I've been hearing from so many people is that they're like, my gosh, it's the end of the year. I haven't reached my goals. Things are about to reset. I feel like I'm going to have to start over. And it's like, it's just a day.

Erica Nash (19:53.858)

Yup.

Shannon Mattern (20:08.082)

tomorrow's another day, like there's no, there's no finality to it. There's no beginning to it. It's just today. So I was also starting to have some of that thinking like that there's like this end to things. And it's like, no, because there's like nothing magical happens on January 1st. It's just a, just another day. So I thought it was just really interesting that I was given the opportunity to

Erica Nash (20:28.642)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (20:37.972)

Like any time I make a declaration about something, it's like I'm immediately given the opportunity to be like, do you really believe that? And yeah, I really do think that November's revenue being $15,000 is not a problem moving on. What can I learn from that?

Erica Nash (21:02.188)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (21:05.808)

What are some opportunities? I was like, some opportunities. I have people requesting to come to our open house who aren't actually attending. Like they're ghosting or maybe they didn't get the email. I'm like, maybe there's some opportunity to kind of shore up that process a little bit to like follow up with people and confirm whether or not they're coming. Otherwise, I'm not going to like mentally count them as a potential lead if they're not going to like, if they're just going to fill out the form and ghost.

Just things like that to where I'm like, what are the opportunities that I can, what are the real gaps here and how can I solve them versus nothing's working? my gosh, like whatever. So yeah, it was interesting.

Erica Nash (21:48.012)

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I think that's so fascinating. And I think it's such a good example of how.

like those fears and like, let's be real, it's a system, right? It's a system inside our brain that runs very smoothly from years of use. Like that is a well-oiled machine. You know, when something triggers whatever feelings of like insecurity or being unsafe or whatever, it is a well-oiled process that works in a very specific way that...

makes our bodies do very specific things, that makes our brains say very specific things. And unless we intentionally disrupt that, it's going to run just like it's run before. And so I find it so fascinating that you were able to observe the difference between that well-worn system and your higher level thinking. Because I think that's what makes that

process so powerful is like when you're able to see that shift, because then you know, like, while it's all it's, it's, it's real in your body. It's not happening right now. And so we're able to kind of remove ourselves from that lower level thinking that that scared lizard brain and and move into a

Shannon Mattern (23:18.064)

Mm-hmm

Erica Nash (23:21.196)

like a more secure, just like way of being. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (23:25.171)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (23:29.806)

I don't know. I also am just like, as you're talking, know, reflecting on my own sort of like processes and like well-worn, well-worn pathways. And, you know, I also attended the retreat and went through this, you know, this exercise and I am in the stage of like, I'm like behind you a few steps.

Shannon Mattern (23:59.509)

Sure.

Erica Nash (23:59.51)

where like I'm recognizing, my brain's been taken offline. Like that's where I'm at. Like I'm not quite to the place where I'm able to like switch it back on. With time it comes, but I'm not able to like do that with purpose, like intentionally turn it back on. But what's cool about that is that I'm able to in my heightened state recognize

that lizard brain thinking and well-worn system and go to my support and say, my brain's been taken offline. Here's what happened. How do I move through this? And like, I did that just a couple of days ago and it was so beautiful because one of the people that I talked to, they were like, there's this thing. Remember, we don't make decisions when this is happening.

Shannon Mattern (24:44.818)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (25:00.29)

And it was like, yeah, and it just gave me permission to just like set it aside for a little bit. And before, know, like that wouldn't be possible. Like it would have just been, let's spiral into despair and overthinking and try to solve this and think my way out of this when that's not really what's needed.

Shannon Mattern (25:20.028)

Yeah, I think that the biggest thing that I want people to hear is that like, just because you think it doesn't mean it's true. And that is like my biggest role here at the Web Designer Academy is to help you see the things that you just believe to be true. Like the sky is blue.

Erica Nash (25:31.822)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (25:45.629)

and invite you to maybe look at that from a different frame of reference and like what might be possible if maybe you thought about that in a different way, not saying that you're wrong, not saying that your experience isn't valid, not saying that like you shouldn't feel however you feel about that thing. And are there some different ways that you could look at that that could change everything for you? And so, you know,

The first week of November was really spent at our next level mastermind retreat. So our next level mastermind is, it's like our, I don't know how to say it. Like it's our top level program. It's like the program that people join when they've implemented the strategies from our web designer academy, or maybe they're coming in and they're more advanced and they already have their strategies and they like their strategies.

They're not necessarily looking for more, there is some, they want something. There's a gap, right? There's a gap between where they're at now and where they want to be. And they've tried several different things to bridge that gap and they don't seem to be able to close it. And that's really where we come in because it's this process of kind of like peeling back the layers and figuring out.

Erica Nash (26:50.934)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (27:06.9)

what do you believe about the way that world works that's causing you to bump up against the same wall every single time you go to solve the problem with a different strategy? The women in that group, we do an in-person retreat in Destin, Florida every year. This was our fourth year of doing it and we had 14 total of us there.

That's always an incredible time getting to see people in person and spend that time together. So we go through a process. I taught them about next level thinking. We went through that. did a whole day on money mindset. And then the third day we, we bring Lauren Beston, who's been on our podcast before, and she's a hypnotherapist. And she takes us through this process, like integrating all of the breakthroughs that we've had.

over the past few days. And then we come up with like, we figure out like, what's been in our way, we come up with the counteracting permission slip. And then she kind of like, programs it into our subconscious for lack of a better, better way of saying that. And she's only programming it into our subconscious, what we would like to be there in the first place. She's not like giving us anything that we don't want. Like she's taking what we've already come up with.

Erica Nash (28:18.175)

Yeah

Shannon Mattern (28:33.46)

and want and helping us really integrate that. So that's the process that we went through in the Next Level Mastermind. And every year I do the work right alongside everybody else. Last year, my next level goal was to get OK with feedback. I had lots of opportunities to get OK with giving and receiving feedback in 2025.

think that's still a work in progress, but it was just an incredible experience at the next level retreat. So I'm curious, Erica, for you, like, what are your, now that a month has passed, what are your thoughts and what's your feedback and what do you have to share about the experience?

Erica Nash (29:23.17)

gosh, so much. It's probably, it's definitely one of my favorite weeks of the year, truly. Like when I look at my year and we've made it to like, when I'm like, we've made it to Halloween, I'm like, my gosh, this like last like quarter of the year is so fun, because we have all of the holidays and we have the retreat and we get to be with everybody. And it's just so fun. And there's just

there really is just something special. And like we've tried to sort of articulate the magic that happens there. And it's just so difficult to really explain, you know, outside of that. It's just really, really special. It's funny because one of the girls, after we came home, of the women that were there, we were messaging and she was like, I miss living with all of you. It was just.

Shannon Mattern (30:05.106)

Just, yeah.

Shannon Mattern (30:17.876)

Hahaha.

Erica Nash (30:19.744)

Such a funny, because that's really what it is for a week. Like we're living together for a week and just like, we know, like these women probably know me like best next to only my husband. And so it's just really, really special. And it's always interesting bringing Lauren in and like going through that process because there really just is something that changes after.

Shannon Mattern (30:32.392)

Yeah. Yeah.

Erica Nash (30:49.6)

that integration. And it's really incredible to see and to kind of be a little bit like, was that the hypnotherapy? When you're on the other side of it and something has changed. This year was big for me. We were there and there were some things that I was talking about and just kind of, because we get really vulnerable while we're there.

Shannon Mattern (30:59.7)

you

Erica Nash (31:18.926)

I think you kind of have to get vulnerable to really get a lot out of the experience. And so I was sharing some of the things that I was afraid about and sort of like making a plan for moving past those things and just integrating all of the next level thinking and all of that stuff. And then when, know, as soon as I got home, the thing that I was afraid of happened.

And I mean, you know, not all rainbows and sunshine, like it definitely took me out. But what I will say is that I am about a month, not even a month, maybe removed from that now. And if this was me a year ago, I would be done with business. I'd be I would have pulled out. I'd been like, no.

This is not safe, I'm not doing this. And so I say all of that to say that like, I have experienced true transformation from the work that we do there, like in a number of ways. This is just one example, but obviously it's like very fresh on my brain because it just happened. And so I'm so grateful for the work that we do there because it truly saved me from

burning it all down, because that's exactly what I would have done. What about you? What was your biggest takeaway from this year?

Shannon Mattern (32:48.628)

Yeah, so for me, my permission slip that came out of the retreat was I give myself permission to allow. And that means that I don't have to drive so hard. I think

when I think about November's revenue and being like, there are no problems here. that is me just, I don't know. It's like, okay, I'm okay to like receive now. I don't know what, like how to explain, like receive help, receive feedback.

receive money, receive compliments, receive like, don't, you know, I feel like I'm ready for that. And so, and whenever I say that, I am shown my opportunities for practicing what I said I was ready for.

And so I think I've said a few times maybe on the podcast, but one of my goals for 2026 is to get paid to speak. And wouldn't you know it, someone offered to pay me to speak very shortly after that. And then I was like, no, no. I totally blocked it and deflected it and then was just noticing where I didn't feel worthy of taking money for.

for that. I'm worthy of receiving money for Web Designer Academy, Next Level Mastermind, all of these things. But stepping into this new identity, I was not willing to allow that. And so going into Next Level, I'm like, I get to just allow the growth, the.

Shannon Mattern (34:54.802)

challenging experiences and not try to prevent and control and so many of those things because I think what I've learned is that I can handle anything. I can figure anything out. There will be challenges. I will navigate them. There will be unforeseen circumstances. It will all be fine. And so I think that that's kind of where it's like.

I give myself permission to not need all of the answers, to not know how it's going to play out and just allow things to unfold. And I love what you said about like pray to make the bus run like how to make the bus. And if you didn't make the bus, it wasn't your bus. Like that's exactly how I feel. I'm still going to put effort and strategy and intention and investment and commitment into everything that I do.

but I don't need to be so attached to how it unfolds. It gets to unfold how it's gonna unfold and it's unfolding for me, however it unfolds. And so I got that out of it. also, I know I said last year in the November income report that I finally felt like, I finally felt like,

Erica Nash (35:55.342)

Hmm.

Erica Nash (36:05.026)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (36:18.587)

It was okay to let myself accept the part I had in the transformations that the people had. But this year I was like, I felt very like I even said the word worthy and I don't think I've ever said that. I was like, I feel worthy of this. And I feel like, yes, I did create this and not like from a, not from an ego braggie place, but I was so proud.

Erica Nash (36:24.877)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (36:47.635)

of the culture and the space that we've created for people to have these big transformations and be that vulnerable and for complete strangers to walk in the door and feel like they've known these people forever. And so I was just like, it was the easiest fourth year in, was like, should I, I told you all, I was like, I feel a little unsettled because I'm not used to feeling this calm.

Erica Nash (36:54.104)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (37:02.966)

Literally.

Erica Nash (37:10.99)

You

Erica Nash (37:17.079)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (37:17.619)

about things. It's unsettling to me. It's an unfamiliar feeling, but it wasn't like, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. It was just like, I feel calm and this is weird and I'm not used to this feeling. It's a little unsettling, but it wasn't like, I wasn't afraid of that feeling or I wasn't like, I'm going to, I wasn't telling myself you probably forgot something. Like probably, like it wasn't anything like that.

It was just like, this is how it's supposed to feel. And I'm just not used to this. So I better get used to it because this is pretty good. And so yeah, that was was that just aside from like just all of the breakthroughs the women that were there had. You know, I think what the retreat does is it really just kind of collapses.

Erica Nash (37:54.37)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (38:10.449)

Like if you think about coming to work with us in the web designer Academy for a year or coming to work with us in the next level mastermind for a year, I feel like, like the retreat kind of collapses a quarter of the work that we might do together into like, one container, like the progress you might make in three months of the web designer Academy kind of gets condensed down into three days at the retreat.

Erica Nash (38:26.187)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (38:35.244)

Yeah. Yeah, I fully, I fully agree. There is, there is,

And I don't know, I mean, I'm sure it's like a number of, like a combination of things, right? Like there's just something special about being in person and like being with someone in the room. Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (38:55.091)

Yeah, it's the connection. It's the connection. Like you cannot, it's the strategic pause. It's the break from the rest of your life. It's the connection. It's like being heard and understood and having other people like hear your mind trash. So we did this thing where we had like, we said your mind trash was gold. And so I gave everybody like yellow index cards.

And so for other people to just be like, here's a yellow card. I'm loving lovingly like showing you your mind trash. Like we just believe everything we think. And then it's just like fun connecting with people who do the same thing you do. And we were all sitting around on the last night and everyone was talking about like, like I'm just, I I'm so grateful for community, community, community. And I said, when you guys say community, do you just mean like friends?

Erica Nash (39:26.286)

Okay.

Erica Nash (39:30.712)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (39:50.899)

You

Shannon Mattern (39:52.323)

And you all are like, yeah, friends. And I'm like, oh. It's it's like friends. Because as an adult, especially working from home, I used to make friends as an adult at work. I don't have kids, so I didn't make friends through my kids' friends, parents, or whatever. Or through church. I don't go to church, so.

Erica Nash (40:00.227)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (40:20.227)

not there, but like I made friends at work. And like, I, if I am like, I don't know how it would make friends now if I didn't like have that. so I'm just like, it's yeah, I could talk about it forever, but I had a huge shift as well in terms of like how I'm going to approach 2026. And I'm already experiencing like, working way less.

Erica Nash (40:30.176)

you

Erica Nash (40:49.838)

Hmm.

Shannon Mattern (40:49.903)

and I, nothing, none. don't think our revenue was a result of me working less. Like I couldn't have worked more and created different revenue in November, if that makes sense. So yeah.

Erica Nash (41:05.464)

There was something that you said that I just really needed to hear. And just like, I really need to like, sort of maybe chew on and wrestle with. And just like the idea of allowing and like with allowing comes like all of the like results that you want, but also come the unexpected maybe challenges.

and things that you weren't planning for. And I tend to be in the camp of like, let's control as much as possible in order to avoid like those challenging things. When I know like logically, right? I know that like those things are gonna come, it's gonna happen. Like the unexpected results are going to happen. But there is just a lot of like, there's something really beautiful.

about seeing you sit here and be like, I'm here for all of it. I just think that's really, really special and is definitely a breakthrough. Like that is different and new just like from like what I'm seeing from you, you know what I mean? Like I just think that's really cool.

Shannon Mattern (42:26.203)

Yeah, I think, thank you. And I think that it just takes so much capacity to try to control things. And we only have so much capacity. and that is the thing that I have really been looking at is like, there are diminishing returns at some point. And so,

Erica Nash (42:36.876)

yeah.

Shannon Mattern (42:51.901)

How can I keep my, like put my energy, like use my energy effectively on things that matter and not waste capacity trying to control things that I really can't control. And the only reason I'm trying to control them is so that I don't feel bad. And the only reason I feel bad is because I think something that makes me feel bad. So I don't have to think that thing anymore if I don't.

Erica Nash (43:17.976)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (43:20.977)

want to, or I don't have to stay in that thought pattern for a while. I could sit here and be like, November was a slow month, and just loop in this big long list of stuff I was thinking, make myself feel terrible and believe it all. Or I could be like, huh, I wonder what I could do next month to reach our enrollment goal. Way more energy spent.

Erica Nash (43:44.717)

Yeah.

sky's blue.

Shannon Mattern (43:50.824)

better spent that way for me. And I felt better about it. I was like, I could do this. I could try this. I could test this. could, you know, versus, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So if any web designer Academy students are listening and you want to come into next level, it is not like, I'm, I'm ready to scale and grow my web design business to multi six figures. If you want to do that, cool. We're here for it. We'll help you.

Erica Nash (43:57.922)

Yeah, like opens up your creativity again. Yeah.

Incredible.

Erica Nash (44:10.904)

Do it.

Shannon Mattern (44:20.883)

It's also like the next level of relationships with other people who are like you, and who want the same things you want. It's next level thinking, it's next level mindset shifts, it's next level creativity. It's like all of those things. Even if you're like, but I don't want a really big business with a team. I'm pretty sure no one in...

Next Level has or wants that. So come check us out. We would love to meet you and introduce you to everyone. And even if you're not in the Web Designer Academy and you're like, I don't need more business strategy, but I need something, Next Level is your place for sure.

Erica Nash (45:11.106)

Hmm, yeah. I could talk about Next Level and The Retreat forever. But there were some other things on the list that I wanted to chat about. Let's chat about maybe the new program. There was a new program and then there was one other thing on the list that you did in November. I was like,

Shannon Mattern (45:20.968)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (45:34.759)

What new program did I do in November?

Erica Nash (45:36.084)

knew that you, no no no, that you, that you enrolled in.

Shannon Mattern (45:39.924)

Oh, yeah. So one of the things that came out of 2025 unexpectedly was the idea that our package matrix strategy that we teach inside of the Web Designer Academy has many, many more applications beyond selling web design packages. I've mentioned this in like in a few trainings that I did, but I

I went to an in-person retreat, someone else's in-person retreat in February and I was talking to people about like what we do in the Web Designer Academy and they're like, I need that. I want that. So I was like, let me just like quietly teach this to some service providers outside of the web design space. We had a ballroom dance studio owner, like AmLaw 100 legal consulting company, accounting, business coaching, like a few different.

types of people there. And I taught them the package matrix strategy. And they have like gone on to sell their highest price packages and all of the same results and things that the people inside of the web designer academy get. I taught a high, high level overview of the strategy at Josh Hall's web designer pro in person conference. Got feedback from people that like,

there, like it changed everything for them, for the people that implemented it. so I'm like, like I can really lift this piece out of the web designer academy and teach it to other service providers. and I'm going to allow this to unfold however it's going to unfold. My idea is that

I don't necessarily want to build a program for service providers to learn package matrix and have like a similar program to the web designer Academy. But I will love to license the strategy and the curriculum to other business owners who are teaching solo service providers, other aspects of running that type of business.

Shannon Mattern (48:04.447)

and maybe they're, maybe it's both and I don't know. so I, found a podcast as one does that talked about like, building a licensing and certification model. if someone wanted to become certified in teaching the package matrix method and wanted to like, let's say, do some consulting and help their clients build a package matrix, they would like,

come to me, learn the training, get licensed and certified to then go use the method inside of their programs or with their clients. Or if someone had a business coaching program for, let's say, virtual assistants, for example, and they wanted to teach, like maybe they teach everything but pricing because that's what I, that's kind of what I hear where people are like, I want to teach them how to like get clients, up systems, set up processes, but.

pricing, you're kind of on your own when it comes to figuring out how much to charge. And the package matrix could kind of slot into someone else's program. They could like license it from me to be able to teach inside of their program. So that's kind of what I'm thinking because, and I might do something for like the end user service provider to teach them package matrix. but I feel like the

Erica Nash (49:11.95)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (49:32.536)

next, my next level would be kind of being a thought leader for thought leaders. And like taking the like, I could have much more impact if I'm not trying to like build a solo service provider audience. And like kind of it's a different marketing strategy to like, it's, it's basically the relay it's

Basically the relationship marketing that we teach in the web designer academy for me to go build the clientele to sell this licensing and certification offer to. So it's not like, if you're not a web designer, can like learn package matrix from me over here and I'll teach it to you and all of that. Maybe I'll do that a couple of times. I'm gonna host a workshop to just build the curriculum in February to like build the foundation. And so I'm gonna do it then.

Erica Nash (50:08.717)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (50:30.621)

but I don't, my vision isn't to have like a program for solo service providers that I teach. It could happen, I don't know, we'll see, but my vision is more for like me to like add this on for other people to support their students.

Erica Nash (50:48.502)

Mm-hmm. So cool. And also, can we just talk about the mindset shift from like holding Patrick, which is our nickname for package matrix, but holding him so tightly to being willing to like maybe license him out to other people.

Shannon Mattern (50:51.699)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (51:10.055)

Yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, I still am working through mindset stuff with that, like every day to be like, well, this is like one of my most valuable pieces of IP, I think, but I also, but also I think what this year has taught me, especially with, I also opened up a private coaching offer this year and

Erica Nash (51:25.39)

for sure.

Shannon Mattern (51:38.989)

in working with clients one-on-one for 12 weeks, I don't think I realized how I think is not unique, but how I think is just as valuable as package matrix, like the strategy that I've put on paper with package matrix. And the progress that I was able to help people make in just 12 weeks was like,

Erica Nash (51:56.206)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (52:06.712)

exponential and kind of crazy. And so I think I've just had a few experiences to be like, why am I, why do I think that like this one piece of IP that I've created is the only thing that I'm bringing to the table. And that the like, if that thing were to no longer like if something happened to it, that made it quote unquote, less valuable.

Erica Nash (52:24.437)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (52:36.432)

whatever that my brain is telling me that could be. Then I'll have nothing and it'll all fall apart. So it's the same, that same tired old story, right? And so I still have, I still have like that friction between like,

Erica Nash (52:50.126)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (53:06.364)

How do I?

about it without just like teaching it all for free. Like, you know what I mean? And I don't even, I don't even think that's not even the, that's not even the real question. It's still, it's all that's, that's a dumb question. Like I don't want to like, it's the wrong question. I know when my brain asks that I'm asking the wrong question.

Erica Nash (53:16.397)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (53:40.211)

because that's not even the issue here. The issue here is that, again, I think that somehow I could lose everything. So it goes back to next level thinking. I'm just believing that that question is a valid question, like the sky is blue. And sometimes I think that's, I was thinking about this, I'm like, sometimes that's a problem with us just using chat GPT to coach ourselves, is that we don't even question the question that we're asking.

Erica Nash (53:51.757)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (54:03.17)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (54:10.18)

I was asking Chad GPT, help me figure out how to talk about this strategy in my marketing without giving the whole thing away. And it's going to answer the question for me. And it was actually giving me not a great answer, answers that didn't feel aligned with my values, answers that were very hustle marketing, bro marketing culture type of answers, where I'm like, that feels gross.

Erica Nash (54:33.933)

Mm.

Shannon Mattern (54:38.694)

And then I realized like, I'm asking the wrong question because it's not even the right question to ask here. Like this question is showing me that I need to do some next level thinking here.

Erica Nash (54:46.894)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (54:52.152)

But maybe not right or wrong question, right? Just different.

Shannon Mattern (54:55.378)

I'm asking a question that's gonna lead to unwanted results. Thank you. So yeah, I still have a lot of stickiness around that. And I think that the solution there is to create safety so that I can feel free to like strategically use that however I'm gonna use it. so yeah.

Erica Nash (54:58.446)

There we go. Yeah. Yeah.

Erica Nash (55:08.046)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (55:19.596)

Yeah. Well, it sounds like the certification maybe is a step in the direction that you want to go, like creating safety. So it's cool.

Shannon Mattern (55:26.746)

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. So it's just really interesting. I'm like, this is the place that still feels like, I have so much opportunity to solve some thought errors or thought problems in this way because...

Erica Nash (55:43.65)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (55:46.981)

Yeah. So that's, that's what that was. and I'm excited to like explore what that looks like. I already have an idea of people that I can approach for licensing and certifying the method and like all of that type of thing. Cause when I think about like how, what makes the most sense for like my future business vision, it's not creating like a, a second web designer Academy that's for solo service providers. Like,

Erica Nash (55:51.521)

I love that.

Erica Nash (56:14.102)

Right. Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (56:16.89)

That is, I don't think we would have the capacity to do that.

Erica Nash (56:21.654)

Yeah, thinking about doing that is... well... holy moly.

Shannon Mattern (56:25.796)

Erica's like, no, we don't have the capacity. Let's just like double everything that we're doing right now, right? Yeah. So like just logistically, like it doesn't, it doesn't make sense, but I have a bigger vision for it. So it's fun.

Erica Nash (56:38.062)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (56:42.546)

I love that you are actively in whatever way, whether it's baby steps or not, moving toward being a thought leader for thought leaders. I think that's incredible. And I think that you have so much to say and like we need more of that in the thought leader space. And so talking about, you know,

what's involved in like actually sort of marketing to these thought leaders that you would be marketing to. You talked about relational marketing. So then that reminded me that you joined a new networking group. Tell us about.

Shannon Mattern (57:18.802)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (57:22.95)

Yeah, yeah, yep. So it's called the Prosper Network. And my friend, Phyllis Nichols, who produces this podcast has been telling me for six months, like Shannon, this is your vibe. These are your people. You need to be in this room. And I was just like, I'm not ready yet. I'm not ready yet. I'm not ready yet. And then they hosted a summit. Phyllis was speaking. I went to...

see her talk and one of the founders of the network, like when she went to introduce Phyllis, she was like, I remember how I first met Phyllis. I met Phyllis at this in-person networking event about 10 years ago. And, you know, Phyllis saw me standing over in the corner by myself and she and her friend came over and like pulled me into the group. And, you know, that's how I met Phyllis and, you know,

whatever. And I was like, this is the kind of networking group that I want to be in. were no, there was no like, come at us with your elevator pitch. And it was just real people being normal and making friends in a way that like, it felt like how it feels in the web designer academy, where you just get to show up, be yourself.

Say things however you want to say them. You're not constrained to whatever. It really was about relationships. That first sentence was like, this really was about.

a true relationship between these two people and how can it multiply? And then part of this is that they're like, we want you to promote yourself. We want you to share what you're up to. There's no like pretending that you're not, you know, and just come in and be yourself and do it. So I was like, okay, so for me to like meet the people that I

Erica Nash (59:23.82)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (59:31.628)

want to meet to connect to potential licensees of package matrix, this is one of the rooms that I think that I want to be in to start building those relationships outside of people that I already know and let them know what I'm up to and that I have something really valuable that they could add to their programs that could help their students be even more successful than they're helping them now.

Erica Nash (59:59.372)

Yeah. my gosh, I love that so much. Because networking groups can be like, it can be really challenging to be able to go in and like be yourself and it really be about the relationships that you're building. So I love that you found a space that feels like what you've created, like that feels like such a beautiful synchronicity.

Shannon Mattern (01:00:17.553)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:00:26.598)

Thank you. And so like I've committed to like showing up, you know, and like, because it's not just about me sharing my thing. It's also about me being like, how can I support you? And I'm like, I have so many connections and relationships that I think I could really support other people in that room as well. So that's something that I'm like making time for in 2026 is like, showing up to the speed networking events and just

you know, things that I might feel like are super uncomfortable, but that just the way it was like, anytime I go into like a new experience or a networking group or a room full of strangers, I always want to find that person that's standing in the corner and be like, cute shoes, let's talk, like be my friend, like how we used to make friends on the playground when we were eight years old. Like, I like your hair bow, want to be friends? Like,

Erica Nash (01:01:15.276)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:01:21.582)

like that, right? And so I feel like that's a room that I could do that in and it would be fun and fun and easy that I wouldn't feel like out of place. So.

Erica Nash (01:01:21.719)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (01:01:29.229)

Yeah.

what a gift to the wallflowers like me who would be standing in the corner, unsure, unwilling to like go do that and like be that person. So I think that's really cool.

Shannon Mattern (01:01:34.14)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:01:46.309)

Awesome. Yeah, me too. I'm excited about it. Yeah, and I think that's probably it for November. I did host one more Five Secrets to High Converting Web Design Proposals event in November. I had asked a couple of my affiliate partners to promote the event, made another, we talked about like quarter turns.

Erica Nash (01:01:47.458)

Yeah. Yeah.

Erica Nash (01:02:04.803)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (01:02:14.522)

made another quarter turn, one that I don't think I loved and I won't keep it. But during that one, I was like, okay, instead of making an offer for the web designer Academy, I'm going to invite these people to come to the February package matrix training that I'm doing to like build the certification program because there were non web designers in that room. There were like OBMs and SEO people. And I can't remember who else I invited.

Erica Nash (01:02:20.279)

Interesting.

Shannon Mattern (01:02:43.534)

And then it was like that or Web Designer Academy open house. I think I just, confused myself. I think I muddied the waters a little bit. But it gave me clarity on like how I want to move forward with that training. So, you know, one of the things that we're doing in 2026 is we're going to continue to host that training. We're going to continue to invite our list new people that we meet.

Erica Nash (01:02:58.562)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (01:03:12.732)

to that and I just am gonna keep making little adjustments and little adjustments. it gave me the idea to know like, here's what I wanna try next time. So old me would have been like, this training doesn't work. Let me start all over again completely. Now I've run it five or six times and I kind of feel like, okay, like I know what I'm gonna change for next time.

I'm gonna shift this little thing about the offer and how I say it. Like I'm just getting a lot of practice and I'm not reinventing the wheel every single time, which I love because I, I have so much more time. Like I'm not working crazy. I feel rested. I want to maintain that in 2026.

Erica Nash (01:03:50.358)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (01:04:05.165)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (01:04:05.33)

I'm excited for us to like take some things off your plate in 2026. We'll get to like talk about that in future income reports. So I just feel like it's really about like sustainable and just, I don't know, moving forward. And I think from that place of like sufficiency will create more than I.

Erica Nash (01:04:24.045)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:04:32.284)

could have ever expected or more than I could create by pushing and forcing and hustling.

Erica Nash (01:04:37.538)

Yeah, just allowing. Amazing. Yeah, I think one of the things that you said about...

Shannon Mattern (01:04:39.634)

Just allowing. So, yeah.

Erica Nash (01:04:52.861)

I lost it. Where did it go?

You said...

Oh, nevermind. It's gone.

Shannon Mattern (01:05:01.68)

It's gone. I do that all the time. I'm like, it was there and it was going to be so good and now it's gone. But yeah, so at the time of this recording in a couple of days, we're hosting our final Web Designer Academy open enrollment event of the year. And so I don't know when this episode is going to come out, probably after enrollment has closed. So if

Erica Nash (01:05:11.117)

Yep.

Shannon Mattern (01:05:31.302)

you're listening to this and you just joined. We're so excited to have you. We're very excited to work with you. We can't wait to see what you create in 2026. And if he missed that window for the final open enrollments, there will still be opportunities to join us in 2026. But I would say just get in the room sooner because the sooner we can help you implement our strategies, make the shifts like

drop some of the thinking that's causing you to stay hustling and stuck. The sooner you can have the business that you really truly want, and it is possible. Eric and I see it all day, every day. And so we would love to help you with that. So you can just go to webdesigneracademy.com, check us out, see everything that we've got going on.

Erica Nash (01:06:18.83)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:06:29.298)

And we'd love to meet you someday. Any final thoughts before we wrap this one up, Erica?

Erica Nash (01:06:37.772)

This is so good. I did remember what I was going to say. You were talking about, you know, just like the idea of making the quarter turns and just like making small adjustments. And I was just thinking about how I just think there's a lot of value for all of us in the idea that just because something hasn't gotten us the result that we're looking for means we have to throw it all out entirely. Like there is so much

to be said for sticking with a thing and making a minor adjustment and testing it again for the practice, even if it's just for the practice, because in that practice, you learn so much about your offer, you learn so much about yourself, you learn so much about your potential clients. And we coach a lot on, like, hold on, like, don't.

don't pivot just yet, don't throw this away just yet, don't let's make just kind of a minor adjustment. Because I think in the well-worn, well-oiled machine, the safety is in starting over. And I just don't think that that's, well, we know that's not always necessary.

Shannon Mattern (01:07:52.699)

Yep.

Shannon Mattern (01:07:59.014)

Yep, starting over feels like it's work. It feels like you're doing something, but it is actually just throwing out all the water that was about to boil and starting over with cold water. yeah, and I think that that's something that I...

have done so many times in my business. And that's why I'm like, you know, stay the course, stay the course, make a quarter turn. Let's continue learning what there is to learn. Allow it all and figure it out. So yeah, all right. Thank you all so much for listening. I will see you back here next week. Bye everyone.

Erica Nash (01:08:31.982)

in the course.

Erica Nash (01:08:42.67)

That's a way to end it.

Erica Nash (01:08:49.218)

Bye!