#169 – Future-Proof Your Web Design Business with Payton Clark Smith of PaitPro

Shannon Mattern (00:02.296)

Hey everyone and welcome back to the Profitable Web Designer podcast. Today I am so excited to be bringing you Peyton Smith, founder of PaytPro, which is a resource that helps web designers future proof their businesses and skip 10 years of struggle and confusion. So Peyton's a web designer, an SEO and SaaS founder who's been building websites since 2018, built hundreds of client sites, trains web designers on how to run businesses. So

Payton, welcome to the Profitable Web Designer podcast.

Payton Clark Smith (00:35.408)

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. This is awesome.

Shannon Mattern (00:38.562)

So this is the first time that we're actually getting to have a conversation. Although, of course, I've heard of you. I have colleagues that have mentioned you to me as someone that I needed to connect with and get on the podcast. I had the pleasure of providing a training for the Paint Pro community, which we'll talk about a bit later. But before we dive into all of that stuff.

Can you give me your superhero origin story? Tell me the background of like how you got started in design and what led you to like even creating paper.

Payton Clark Smith (01:16.55)

Yeah, absolutely. This was something that I think I was meant to do, but never really thought I would end up doing this type of creative work and enjoying it so much and actually making money from it. That was definitely a surprise to me. So in college, I tried studying a lot of different things. thought initially I wanted to go be a lawyer.

So I studied English and I hated it and I had a hard time focusing and I did sales. had like a summer job where I would go door to door sales and

That while I enjoyed it, it still just didn't really fulfill me. And the only thing at school that really sparked any sort of passion or interest was a couple of my like graphic design, Adobe illustrator classes. And I fought that as hard as I could, because I always knew that you couldn't make money as a designer, as a creative. And as much as I tried to fight that, I just kind of ended up, you know, exploring that more and

ended up in a class where I built my first website and it all clicked for me. And by the time I graduated, which thank you to my wife who kind of pushed me through those last couple of classes. By the time I graduated, was freelancing full-time while I wasn't, you know, maybe making as much as a full-time person would hope. I decided just to go all in after I graduated. I never went and applied for.

a job or pursued anything other than just building websites for anybody that I could find. It started as local businesses there in my area. And from there, it just evolved from websites with small businesses to bigger businesses to starting to offer SEO to starting my YouTube channel, talking about websites because I just loved it so much.

Payton Clark Smith (03:16.732)

And now I'm in a spot where, you know, I've got a team, I still build websites. We do SEO. We have built a few SaaS products around the web design and marketing space. And it, every day I feel just lucky that I'm doing this stuff because I had no idea that this would be not only an option, but, such a great opportunity for me. So I'm happy to be where I am.

Shannon Mattern (03:44.454)

I can't wait to dig more into those early years. I, when you mentioned, you're like, I just went straight from like, you know, graduating to freelancing, or there's probably a bridge to, both of those things happening. You didn't get conditioned to be an employee the way those of us who left college went to corporate and got like,

conditioned for lack of a better word to have all of these habits that like work against us when we go out on our own to freelance and grow our own business and we talk a lot about employee mindset and a lot of a lot of undoing that to to run your business on this podcast. I'm curious for you, you know, coming out of graduating and like

going straight into full-time freelancing and you're like, probably wasn't making as much as like a full-time employee would, but like, what were some of those early challenges that you had in, know, okay, I have this skill that I learned and I know how to build websites and it's really, really fun. What were some of the challenges in turning that into like, okay, like the money I'm making is actually worth it and this is profitable and sustainable and like supporting me.

Payton Clark Smith (05:06.202)

Yeah. Yeah. I think that is a really, valid point because there are definitely, maybe cons to having like that employee mindset, but also there are a lot of pros too, to having the experience, especially like, you know, say if I would have gone and worked for an agency, I could have kind of, you know, spend some time seeing how it works, how they interact with clients. And so I feel like I battled with both those things. I think, my lack of experience.

Shannon Mattern (05:19.638)

You

Payton Clark Smith (05:35.856)

Definitely put some extra pressure on me to like self teach myself what I didn't know. I found out very quickly what I didn't know, right? Whether it was just the whole process of just dealing and communicating with a client and all of the logistical things that go into launching a site. One of my first sites.

It went great. It looks great. And when we went to connect it, it shut down their emails, their calendar. messed up the DNS settings. And so things like that happened because I just didn't have the experience, but I learned really quickly. Right. so that definitely, that extra pressure for me, I feel like helped. I think it accelerated my learning because I made so many mistakes in the first year that I just told myself I would never make those again.

But there is a lot of learning as well, just as far as managing your own schedule and focusing on the right things. I think one thing that was really easy to fall into early on was focusing on like the creative, know, spending too much time on the homepage of this client website.

And I was really spending time on things that they didn't really care about, but I was just avoiding doing the real work, which was the sales calls and prospecting and things. And so that was all kind of stuff that I had to figure out the hard way, but it did speed that process up, which thankfully, you know, got me to a place where I either figured those things out or was able to connect with people or hire people that did know how those things were supposed to work.

Shannon Mattern (07:20.779)

I think one of the qualities that makes someone successful in business is a willingness to break things and figure it out along the way. I call myself a stove toucher. I will touch the stove twice, three times, but I'm not afraid to like.

dig in, figure something out, maybe break something. And I don't know, maybe that's a maybe that's a bad quality. But I always think of it like, I just don't think that I can't figure any something out. I'm like, I can figure anything out. Like, so I think that it's a quality that so many designers and web designers, developers, maybe discount as like, a superpower. Like they're like, I'm self taught. It's like, yeah.

Payton Clark Smith (08:05.796)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (08:08.481)

That's your superpower. You figured out how to do something on your own.

Payton Clark Smith (08:10.78)

Absolutely. No, I, I feel like that is what I have been preaching so much recently is I think web designers are possibly the most well equipped to capitalize on all of this AI stuff and new tools and everything, because I just feel like

Shannon Mattern (08:20.234)

you

Payton Clark Smith (08:35.534)

We get so good at figuring stuff out and it not even design stuff, but any new tool, any problem, any solution, it is a superpower. I think even more so than being able to design a nice website because so much of what we do when we're working with clients is problem solving. And especially if you're offering any sort of marketing on the backend, whether that's SEO or ads or, or ad creative, all of those things are just big problems that need solving.

If you can solve them, I mean, there, there are problems that are worth a lot to clients, which means they'll pay us a lot to solve them.

Shannon Mattern (09:12.427)

Yeah, let's, let's talk about that because I think the, thing that I'm always shouting from the rooftops here at the profitable web designers that you're not selling websites, you're not selling deliverables, you're not selling logos, branding, you know, all of that. You're not selling the number of pages you're selling outcomes and results and, those types of things. And so, you know, I hear from a lot of people who are, who are.

trying to make that shift, but they're like still thinking they're, they're worried because they're like, well, if someone can just go into chat, GPT or AI and spin up a website, like, where is my value here? And I'm so curious, like what you're hearing in your community and, you know, what's your take on, on that.

Payton Clark Smith (10:02.128)

Yeah. There are a few things that put me at ease with all of this AI stuff. I think the first is the majority of the clients that I work with even today. Can't figure out how to, know, how to work their Gmail, let alone build a website on their own. And, and I mean that with lots of love, cause I really appreciate my clients, but, a lot of times people aren't hiring us because we.

Shannon Mattern (10:18.262)

Right. Yep.

Payton Clark Smith (10:31.526)

can build a pretty website, they're hiring us because they don't wanna figure it out. They are too bogged down by running their business. Oftentimes they are, you know, they're struggling or they're overworked or underpaid or like there's just so much going on with running a business that they appreciate having somebody that they can trust to manage all of that. So with that said, with all of the AI stuff.

At least for the time being, it's really only benefiting us as designers. It's speeding up our processes. It's making it easier for us to explore ideas and everything down to the communication and organization and project management. All those things get easier for us, but I still think we're a long way out from clients replacing us. Even if tomorrow AI could do it all seamlessly. I just think it takes a while for clients to adopt that. Now.

Shannon Mattern (11:01.271)

Mm-hmm.

Payton Clark Smith (11:26.896)

There also is another side of that, which is, you know, there is going to reach a point where somebody can press a button and it's going to build them the perfect website that, you know, is optimized for conversions. And it, you know, takes into account analytics and competitors and all these different things. And like, I do think that's inevitable, but I still just think that there are problems that need to be solved by humans that

our clients are going to hire us for the client that I was just speaking with this morning. you know, we've been trying to help him figure out his two different Google business profiles and how to get those merge and his reviews together and helping him put together an internal process for asking for review so we can display them on his website. And there's just so much value that we can add in lots of different ways that

Even if AI can do it, I just don't think there's going to be one seamless, easy way for our clients to do it. And so I feel encouraged by that. But I guess the one other thing I will say is as designers, we can't just kind of sit around and keep expecting what we're doing now to work tomorrow or next year. I think we have to look for new ways to, to add value, whether that's new services or one thing that we're working on right now is helping our clients all.

set up kind of their AI chat bots on their website and looking for ways just to bring more value to our clients so they feel like they can't live without us.

Shannon Mattern (12:57.983)

I love that. And it makes me think of back, you know, when page builders were kind of clunky in the beginning and, you know, then they got better and better and better. And that was the same thing. Like, well, why would someone hire me when they can just DIY? And it's like, because they don't want to. Like your best clients that are going to pay the most and be the best clients, like they don't even want to be messing with it. They have way more important things to be doing than,

Payton Clark Smith (13:23.718)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (13:24.875)

than messing around with their website. And I love how you're helping, you're looking at what other ways can we add value and like be indispensable to our current clients. And it's about trust and building relationships and all of those things too. yeah, so good. So what were, tell me about your pricing evolution. When you first started freelancing, what was your pricing like?

How has that evolved over time?

Payton Clark Smith (13:55.804)

Yeah, I think like most people when I first started building sites, I was building them all in, you know, like Wix, WordPress, trying to find my footing in those. I think my first website I sold for $800 and it was, you know, like a 20 page took several months and, and I still thought that was awesome. And that is awesome. A great place to start, right?

Shannon Mattern (14:03.853)

Mm-hmm.

Payton Clark Smith (14:23.48)

I very quickly realized that that wasn't sustainable. so by probably my third or fourth website, I think I was charging two to three grand, which seemed like a more of a sweet spot. Clients seemed a bit easier to work with. They trusted me more. Over the years, I have sold websites for all different rates and each one comes with its own.

struggles and also benefits. I have the biggest website that we ever built was when I had a couple designers on board with me to help. It was a $75,000 website and I was extremely excited to sign that client and I underestimated how much work it was going to be. And so that one ended up being as profitable for me as

or, you know, a 10 or $15,000 website. so, um, I continued to try to find that sweet spot for me. And I would say I probably am the most excited about websites that fall in that, like 5,000 to $15,000 range that aren't so much work. It's not too much, you know, custom integrations, custom tools, you know, calculators built into the site. Um,

That price range has been really great for me. And I even as of late have enjoyed more kind of going towards that lower end of, I like working with local businesses that maybe have a few different locations. They, you know, it's not your, cupcake shop startup that doesn't have budget. It's, know, maybe a dental practice that has a few locations. and we can build them a six or $7,000 website, roll that into some SEO work.

that seems to be just such a great spot because they're easy to work with. They have reasonable expectations typically. so that's kind of been my bread and butter recently. And that's not to say that that's the, perfect solution for everybody, but, but that's kind of where I'm at right now. And I really enjoy the, you know, how profitable it is. It's something that I can do on my owner with one extra designer. It works really well.

Shannon Mattern (16:43.717)

That's so interesting because we just did a study. We did a survey of our audience and the attendees of our Simply Profitable Designer Summit, just asking them about pricing and revenue and all of these things. And it hasn't come out at the time of this podcast. We were just like putting the finishing touches on the podcast episode and the page for it on our website. But one of the things was like how much opportunity there is for

recurring revenue beyond projects. And so what I just heard you say is that you're looking very specifically for clients where you can, you know, build the $6, $7,000 website that's going to fulfill their need and really parlay that into ongoing recurring revenue work for those clients so that you can, um, I would imagine like stack that up and create some really good.

Payton Clark Smith (17:39.708)

you

Shannon Mattern (17:40.769)

consistent recurring revenue.

Payton Clark Smith (17:42.812)

Absolutely. And the line that I use in every sales call is I don't want you to spend all of your marketing budget on a website. I want us to be able to find a reasonable price for the website. So you've got budget for SEO and ads because that's where you're going to see the biggest return. And that gets them excited. First off, because they know I'm not just trying to max out their budget for a website, but also

Clients are going to be much happier with me. They're going to be more likely to refer me to leave me a review if we can get them to the point where we are getting them traffic to that website. And so if that means lower rates for websites, so we can get them into a marketing campaign, that's, that's a win for everybody. And we found a lot of success there. And I think clients appreciate it too, because

We're genuinely looking for ways to help them succeed with as small a budget as possible.

Shannon Mattern (18:42.202)

Yeah, it sounds like such a, such a huge win-win like all the way around. So you mentioned earlier that you have, started a YouTube channel. You were just really excited to talk about all of the things that you were doing and learning. Tell me more about your journey into like, I'm not just learning all of these things for myself. I want to share what I'm learning with others and

what that evolution has looked like.

Payton Clark Smith (19:13.028)

Yeah, there were a few creators that inspired me early on and I was so grateful for their content on YouTube because I just felt very alone when I was starting. I didn't know anybody else that was doing what I do. I would tell people kind of what I was doing for work and I think people thought it was weird or didn't really understand what it meant. know, like I build websites but

If I explained anything beyond that, was foreign to people. I think that really early on kind of started to eat at me because I just felt alone. yeah, I would look to YouTube, watch those videos. And I thought, man, like this is really cool. Or this is a cool opportunity for me to share every lesson that I learned. Like, why not? Let's just see what happens.

it started off as just like very unprofessional, unscripted videos. it's so funny to watch back on those early videos, but really quickly, like I got some not only good feedback, but I was getting connected with other people that were like, Hey, like I'm doing the same thing. I just started my business or I'm a few years into my business and this helped me. And, I really fed off of that kind of online community of people that knew what I was going through. So.

That's how it started. And then like anything as, as it grew, I started to, to realize the potential to monetize it. And, so I started putting together, you know, a couple of different program ideas. And, in fact, the first thing that I ever sold to my YouTube channel was an SEO course, because that was the most.

important profitable part of my business at the time. Like that was where I was making the most money. And so I was started teaching web designers how to do an offer SEO. and then that of course has kind of snowballed into lots of different, you know, like one-off programs, many courses. And then now where we are is we've just rolled all of that into, to one thing, which is my community pay pro. And, I, I don't know. It's.

Payton Clark Smith (21:27.268)

My least profitable thing that I do in my work and it's the most fulfilling, which is a good combination. It's awesome to connect with people in that community. I still love, you know, I hope that there are times that I help. There are a lot of times where I'm learning from other people in the community. we're passing work between one another where we're sharing ideas. So that now where that can like that.

Community is has made all of the YouTube content worth it for me it It's really helped kind of build that community around me that I didn't have when I started and I kind of hope that it can be that for people that are starting today

Shannon Mattern (22:09.836)

My experience is so similar to because like I worked at a day job in marketing and communications and you know, I learned a little bit in college but mostly on the job just to like be able to do my job. They're like, hey, we need a website and I'm like, I'll figure out how to do that, you know, and so that's kind of where I started and then I was like,

I don't want to work at this corporate job for the rest of my life. Like, what am I doing? Like, this cannot be what this is for the rest of my life. And I was like, started really exploring what else I could possibly do. Got an opportunity to build a website for one of our vendors. And so that kind of led me into like, I need to like even do more research to figure out how to do things.

Payton Clark Smith (22:55.014)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (22:55.532)

probably watch some of your videos at some point. I was like just consuming all of the content that I could have figured out like how to build the websites I needed to build for my clients and then came across Pat Flynn as I'm sure all of us have in you know who started our businesses in the mid to 2010s whatever it was like 2015-16 and when he was like yeah so I earn affiliate he used to do these income

And he would talk about how he earns affiliate commissions from teaching people how to set up their blog. And I'm like, wait a minute. You mean all of this content that I have been finding online where people are telling me step by step exactly how to do something. When I buy the thing, they're making money. They're not just doing it out of like the goodness of their hearts. That is brilliant. And I could do that because nobody is teaching women.

specifically how to build websites. This was like pre square space days. So I was like, I'm going to create the tutorials and training that, women, solar printers, web designers would want to do. And I got started that way too. And like the same thing that you're saying about, like, I felt very alone. Nobody understood why I would not want this.

Payton Clark Smith (23:59.035)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (24:20.636)

executive role at this company, this marketing executive role, why I would leave that to like, go build websites and whatever. And it felt very lonely. And I was like, okay, well I'm blazing the trail. You know, just like it sounds like you were blazing the trail too. I'm like, I'm out ahead. I'm learning. I'm trying a lot of things. I'm going to teach other people what I'm doing. I'm going to do some tutorials for affiliate marketing.

And I was able to almost replace my day job salary just from doing that. And then having, adding the freelance stuff on the side. And I was able to quit what ended up being a six figure day job by the time I left with 50 % freelance work and 50%, like just teaching other people how to do what I was doing. And I'm like, how is this my life? And then you.

you realize like, I'm really helping other people live this dream life that I am living too. And so when you said it's like one of the most fulfilling things that you do is to like give back to this designer community. You know, I feel the same way where I'm like being able to run my own business and not be an employee of a corporation where I have two weeks off a year and I have to ask for permission to do the things I want to do with my life and

be told where to be and what to wear and how to act and how to be. And now I have total freedom. I'm like, I can't not help other people have that. And I feel like what you just said is, that like, so yeah.

Payton Clark Smith (25:56.508)

Mm-hmm.

Payton Clark Smith (26:03.94)

Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with you. And I think that it's a, start to kind of calculate impact. And that was one thing that I started to realize really fast is my impact, while I still think is great working with a single client, it was really cool to create something that could impact multiple people at once. And so

with that, you know, opportunity to be able to impact a lot of people. Certainly there are opportunities to monetize that as well. Right. and so I just started to kind of figure that out I'm like, Hey, this is so cool. Like I can put out a single piece of content or a single course or make a single recommendation. And it can make a difference for a lot of different people. and, and I think there's also a level of.

you start to look back at when you started and you're like, these are all the things that I struggled with or I had a hard time with. You know, I still have flashbacks of being in our one bedroom apartment with a new baby and being stressed about where my next client is coming from. And so like those are the kind of the internal drivers that made me feel like I just want to put out so much content on finding your first clients, because I know how

Shannon Mattern (27:18.123)

Yeah.

Payton Clark Smith (27:30.848)

stressful and like crippling that can be. And so there are just so many things that kind of drew me to creating that type of stuff. And, and it is so fulfilling and it's such a cool, again, just another kind of opportunity that us as designers are able to figure out, I think as well as anyone, because I, one of my favorite parts about my job is designing my thumbnails is coming up with creative titles is

crafting a perfect script, that's all stuff that plays right into my kind of creative part of my brain and it's so fun.

Shannon Mattern (28:07.466)

Yeah, we're problem solvers and now that you get to solve problems in different ways, like how can I get this content that I'm so passionate about creating in front of as many web designers who need it as possible? So it's just a different way to use the creative problem solving skills that you're using with how can I get these dentists as many leads as possible? So let's talk about getting clients because I am also very passionate about

Payton Clark Smith (28:23.728)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (28:36.896)

helping people on this podcast never have not getting like not knowing how to get clients as like a barrier to, like creating the life in the business that they want. And then we talk like about every strategy that I've ever successfully used our guests on this podcast. Cause we just want to like take that off the table. There's plenty of other challenges, in running a business like

pricing and dealing with difficult clients and boundaries and just all of those things. So, we can help you with all of that, but let's just talk about like getting clients. What are your number one, strategies that are your go-tos for when someone's like, you know, like you were, just, I just need my next client.

Payton Clark Smith (29:26.492)

I still feel like after years and years of doing this, I've certainly narrowed in on those that are more effective, but I still feel like it changes every, every time. Like, and certainly the easy answer is like, once you've been doing this for so many years, like referrals come so much easier, but that's not something that people can rely on early on. So, this is actually a.

I've got a few, a few answers for this. So this is a really fun topic because it's easy for us at, you know, year eight, nine, 10, whatever to, be like, you know, they just kind of, it's easy, but early on, like there is this season of like what I always call just like scrappy sales. It's like whatever you can do. And so some of my earliest clients, it was, you know, like just

talking to my kids dentist when we're at the dentist or seeing somebody posted on Facebook and they were like, hey, my nephew is opening a gym here in town. And like I messaged them and said, hey, I build websites. I know so-and-so. And that was another deal that I got. It was just like anything I could do early on, right? And then as time went on, SEO became much more

of like an essential part of my strategy, right? Like I started ranking on the maps, for, Idaho falls web designer, Pocatello SEO expert, like these different cities. that became really huge. And then as my content, continued to grow, even though I wasn't making videos, like trying to get clients, people would just message me because I think they started to perceive me as an expert, right?

So that now I feel like is probably the most consistent is just people seeing my content. I wanted to do an experiment on this because I, it wasn't fair to me to like tell people that was my best strategy because I've been creating content on YouTube for years and years and years. It's not something that somebody can grow overnight. And, but I still,

Payton Clark Smith (31:47.74)

felt like YouTube was such a massive opportunity because niche content is still so untapped, right? So inside actually a recent program that I created called the Solo Agency Blueprint, we just added it in as part of my Pay Pro community. in that training, what I did is I started, well, I chose a niche, which my niche was I want to build websites for pest control companies.

And so what I did is I set up a one page lander, best pest marketing, and then I created a brand new YouTube channel and I put out, I think three videos. And what I did is I made very like specific titles. It was like how to create the perfect pest control website or 10 pest control website examples to help you get more customers. Like those are the titles of my videos.

And then in those, just did a screen recording and I walked them through one of the pest control websites I had built for a client. And with no subscribers on that YouTube channel, I think it took just a little over two weeks before I started getting my first leads. The videos only had like, you know,

60 views, 130 views, like nothing huge, but they were so specific. And then I just had a strong call to action that they started jet. I was getting stuff booked on my Calendly. And so then I expanded that, little like trial that I was doing. And I started reaching out to other YouTubers that create content for pest control companies, not like websites or anything, just like, Hey, here's how to manage the finances of your pest control business.

And I just reached out and said, Hey, like if you would mention my pest control websites, your next video, I'll give you a 30 % kickback of everybody that signs up. And I made a custom landing page and, they posted their next video a few weeks later and I got more leads and I'm like, man, so YouTube, even with no following is such a huge opportunity. So that long story is to say, if I was to start from scratch right now,

Payton Clark Smith (33:59.704)

Aside from the scrappy stuff, the opening your mouth, talking to people in your circle, the first thing I would do is start creating really niche content on YouTube because that content lives forever and it works. It drives leads.

Shannon Mattern (34:14.7)

I find that so fascinating and the thing that is so, I don't know, refreshing about that strategy is that you aren't like, and I'm making a YouTube video every single day about pest control, like the grinds that people find themselves when they're like, I need to be on Instagram and I need to be content that just disappears down the feed and.

You know, all of those things that, that are like the number one things our audience tells me like, I should be doing more marketing, but I just hate Instagram. I'm like, why is that the only place that you would ever do marketing? I'm like, then, then don't do it there. And yeah, we talk about like in the early days, it's like, everyone's like, I feel like I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. And I'm like, yeah, keep doing that because that's really what it is. In the beginning, you're doing it right. Keep doing that. That will create momentum.

Payton Clark Smith (35:02.768)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (35:09.004)

that like do that alongside testing out some things like what you just shared. So solo agency blueprint is inside your paint pro membership. Can you tell us more about paint pro and what people can find when they get in there and how it works and all of the things.

Payton Clark Smith (35:26.684)

Yeah, so we literally just this week we changed it. It used to be kind of a recurring membership and it just had individual trainings like the training that you provided for us. So we have experts come in and talk about a specific topic. It's got resources, templates, a few different things like that.

but I felt like all of these different programs were starting to get like, they were so spread out that I'd get on a call with somebody and they would ask what was best for them. And I'm like, you kind of like a little bit of this one and a little bit of that one. And so we just rolled it all up into Pay Pro. So now it's just a one-time like bundle payment. And so in there, you get all of those trainings, all of the resources and downloads.

there are a few standalone programs in there that are like full courses, several hours long. So there's a solo agency blueprint, which is my most recent program. there's web design sales mastery, which is like my original how to get clients program. and then I think a month ago, we just launched a new starter series, which is like, it's basically I think five.

Lessons on getting started from scratch. So building your portfolio, positioning and niche, getting clients, that type of stuff. So we rolled it all up into one. and you just get lifetime access to everything. That whole program, like it's so fun because I, now with where it's at, I'm just like, what do, what do people need? Like if there's a specific topic or training, we can put it in there, but

One pain that I was feeling just these last couple of months is I'm like, I have so many subscriptions and I'm paying so much every month. And so I just had my team start reaching out to like all the tools I use to get special discounts for our members. So now it's like, can save 20 % on the tools you're using. And so we try to do some of that as well, just whatever we can to kind of make the, process easier. and.

Payton Clark Smith (37:37.892)

I still think we've got a long way to go. know, we want to do more trainings, more courses, more resources, but it's a fun place to kind of hang out and get to know other designers like me.

Shannon Mattern (37:51.084)

Yeah, I was taking a look at all of the incredible testimonials on the page and I was like, oh, like I know a couple of the people who have like left a testimonial on there. And it's, you have such good people in there that are just really engaged in the, just in the whole designer community as a whole. So, you know,

why not give ourselves all of the best resources, education and tools that we can so that you don't have to be a stove toucher like me and figure it all out on your own. And I think about those early years where I didn't even know that there were business coaches or mentors or people out there like that would help me with the business side of the business. I was like, sweet, there's all these tutorials and everything to help me like learn how to.

build a website and do all the technical things that I want to learn. I didn't realize there were people out there helping people with their businesses. And I was just like, let me take every hard road, have every hard experience, do it all the wrong way. And of course I've parlayed that into, you know, what we do here and helping other people, women web designers specifically, like with the challenges that I experienced, but there are people like Peyton who have

gathered all of those winning strategies together in one place for you and want to shortcut your success and help you stop leaving time and money on the table. And the everything that you've put together in paint pro to help people really have the impact that they want to have for their clients and on their life. It's an incredible set of resources you guys. So definitely go check that out. It's paid pro.com. That's P a I T

Shannon Mattern (39:46.651)

So yeah, it's just, it's really a great resource. And so I have just a couple more questions for you before we wrap up. And the first one is what belief about yourself did you have to change to get to where you are today?

Payton Clark Smith (39:53.5)

Okay?

Payton Clark Smith (40:02.822)

Ooh, that is...

That's a good question. What belief about myself? Now, this business has taught me a lot about myself. think the first thing that comes to mind kind of goes back to that maybe employee mindset. And I think it's just kind of like a cultural mindset where we...

Shannon Mattern (40:27.956)

Yeah.

Payton Clark Smith (40:30.55)

feel very dependent on someone to, you to sign our own check or to kind of like hold our future our destiny in their hands and being able to kind of unlock that part of my my brain and belief where I'm like, I can control my own life and I have 100 % control over how much I earn and what I can accomplish and what I can build.

And once I figured that out, it's just opened up so many cool opportunities. right now, like I just am in, I'm obsessed with the whole SaaS world because it's just such a cool opportunity. I'm like, Holy cow, this is one of the most direct ways to use my skills as a designer, a marketer to build my own product and being able to like take that leap to

build something like that, I just never would have been able to do early on. think that, I just didn't know that it was possible. And so it has really like empowered me to feel like I control my own life and, and being able right now, you know, like maybe you've even heard my kids in the background, but like being able to work from home and, like the time I get to spend with my kids and also get to kind of show them.

me working and, I've kind of like built a lifestyle that I wanted. And, yeah. And again, I just think that if I could have seen myself when I started out, I wouldn't have believed it. And it, I think it kind of took throwing myself into the fire to figure it all out, to be like, wow, this, like, I really can have this ideal set up with work that,

that excites me every day and still the dynamic of being able to do what's most important to me, which is not work. I, you know, like I love to be able to spend time with family and go, you know, on trips together and take my boys golfing. And like, those are the things that like are most important. And so that was only really possible through kind of finding that empowerment and, and

Payton Clark Smith (42:53.882)

Like you said, kind of touching a couple stoves and seeing what was possible.

Shannon Mattern (42:59.275)

So good. I think that is the perfect place to wrap up this episode. So can you tell everyone where they can go to learn more about you, what you're up to, Pate Pro, your channel, all of those things.

Payton Clark Smith (43:13.126)

Yeah. Yeah. So pay pro is, kind of like my one stop, like all of my resources, trainings, everything for web designers. I put out a lot on YouTube. so I will always tell people like, unless you want just the whole pile of help and resources dumped on yet once, go, go check out my YouTube channel. Like I, I love putting out content there and typically anytime I have a new idea or.

find something that's working, I'll put out some content there. but yeah, it's, pay pro is certainly the place to go. If you want to connect with me more personally, connect with other awesome people in that group. And, aside from that, paid digital is my agency. You'll, if you go to the side, it's kind of wrapped up with, my SaaS products, the agency web design, all that stuff. But,

If you want to check out what I'm doing, you can go there.

Shannon Mattern (44:15.331)

Well, we'll link all of that up in the show notes. So yeah, thank you so much for being here and sharing all of that with us. I really appreciate it.

Payton Clark Smith (44:22.8)

Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. It was awesome to finally hop on a call.