#186 – The Web Designer’s Guide to Dealing With Difficult Clients

How do you handle difficult web design clients?

You know the ones. The client who keeps adding to the list without expecting to pay more. The one who agreed to a design direction in the kickoff call and now has… changed their mind entirely. The one who hasn't sent you any content in six weeks but expects the site to be live next Friday.

We call these PITA Clients inside the Web Designer Academy… you know, pain in the a** clients – and here's the thing nobody tells you when you're building your web design business:

PITA clients aren't a sign that you're doing something wrong. They're actually a problem of success. You have clients. That’s a huge hurdle to overcome.

But if you don't have the skills to handle the messy situations that come up, those clients will drain your time, your energy, and your revenue.

In this episode of the Profitable Web Designer podcast, I hosted a live Q&A session all about PITA clients.

Real questions from real web designers, real scripts, real mindset shifts. If you've ever found yourself working for free just to avoid a difficult conversation… this one's for you.

A lot of PITA client situations start with how a project gets scoped and sold in the first place. Find out the 5 subtle proposal mistakes even experienced web designers make that cost them thousands… and what to do instead.

Why Difficult Clients Are a Problem of Success (No, Really)

Before we dive into the scripts and strategies, I want to normalize something.

When you're first starting out as a web designer, the biggest hurdle is getting clients at all. So if you have clients who are a little difficult? Congratulations – you're in business! You have revenue coming in. But here's where it gets tricky:

Once you have clients, they reveal all of the weak spots in your business. The people pleasing. The imposter syndrome. The fear of disappointing someone. The ‘it's just easier to say yes' reflex that has you working eight extra hours without getting paid for it.

I've seen so many designers try to solve the discomfort of difficult clients by trying to prevent getting them in the first place. Rebranding. Changing niches. Building what I used to call an ‘American Ninja Warrior course' of qualification in your business… where clients have to get through a gauntlet before they can even talk to you.

But all that effort and energy compound. It affects your revenue and your income. The real solution… the shortcut, honestly… is building the skill to handle any difficult or unexpected client situation.

That's what we're talking about today.

How Do I Deal With Scope Creep? The Magic Words

Scope creep is probably the most common PITA client situation I hear about. You agreed on a project scope, and now your client's eyes are getting bigger than their budget. They want this added. And this. Oh, and while you're in there…

Here's my favorite scope creep response, and it works because it's positive, it's forward-moving, and it doesn't make the client feel like they're being told no:

“Yeah, I'd love to do that for you. Here's how much time it'll add to our project. Would you like me to give you an estimate for how much more that's going to cost?”

A lot of times clients are asking for things without even thinking about whether they're included or not. They're just excited. They're not trying to get over on you. When you respond this way, you're assuming the best of them: that of course they know it'll cost more! You're just making it official.

The reason this feels terrifying to say is because you're afraid your client will get upset. You're afraid they'll think you're being greedy or unprofessional. And so instead of having 15 minutes of discomfort, you work eight extra hours for free. That's the real cost. Think about what you could have done with those hours… maybe landed another client? Maybe finally taken a Friday off?

That fear of the difficult conversation is something we dig into a lot inside the Web Designer Academy, because the scripts alone don't work until you've created some safety for yourself around using them.

‘People Don't Read' and What to Do About It

One of the things that came up in the live Q&A was this: “I want my proposal to do all the work, but people don't read.” And that's just… true. They don't.

So it becomes our job to put what they agreed to in front of them and remind them of it over and over again. Not in a punitive way… more like “the sky is blue”. This is what we decided. Here's what's possible from here.

Inside the Web Designer Academy, we teach a Package Matrix™ strategy that does a lot of this work for you. It's often talked about as a way to help you charge more… and it does that. But it's also a tool you reference throughout the entire project when scope creep happens, when clients ask for things they already declined, when you need to redirect.

You can literally pull it up and say: ‘When we decided to work together, you declined this option. Would you like to add it back in?' And then they either pay for it… or they realize it's not actually that important to them.

How Do I Handle Clients Who Micromanage?

Have you ever had a client pixel-push you? Directing every design element, like kerning, scrolling effects, complicated JavaScript that's way outside the original scope?

And then also tell you you have to have it all done by an unreasonable deadline?

The first thing I want you to hear is this: Your clients cannot give you deadlines. They are not your boss. It's your business. You get to decide what's feasible and when.

The second thing is that your job is to be the expert. And that means sometimes standing behind your professional judgment even when a client is really excited about something they found.

Something like:

“That looks amazing. For what we're building here, though, my professional recommendation is that we stick to our original plan because [reason based on their goals]. If it's really important to you, I'm happy to research the additional cost and how it will affect our timeline. Would you like me to move forward with that?”

Notice that you're giving them options that you're okay with either way. Whatever they choose, you're not working for free and you're not being their employee. You're their expert. There's a difference.

What Do I Do When My Clients Ghost Me or Ignore Deadlines?

This was a big one. Multiple people in the Q&A brought up clients who go quiet, don't send content, then resurface with a completely changed direction. Or clients who tell you they can’t meet the deadline… “so just go ahead and use AI to create my content” as if it takes no time at all, as if creating good AI content that actually serves their strategy doesn’t take real time and skill.

Here's how to deal with clients who ignore your deadlines:

Set clear content deadlines at the start of every project
Follow up with a consequence: “If I don't have your content by Friday, your project will be moved to the end of my development schedule.”
Separate payment from client deliverables. Their delay doesn't mean you pause collecting payment.
When they finally surface with a new direction, treat it as a new scope of work and quote accordingly

The language I love for this is still that ‘sky is blue' approach. No blame, no frustration in your tone. Just:

“Hey, I haven't received your content, and our deadline is Friday. If I don't have everything in my inbox by Monday, we'll need to reschedule your project to [far-out date].”

State it as fact. Let the consequence do the work. And then… let them sit in it. You don't have to chase them endlessly. You just have to be clear and consistent – and follow through on the consequences of their choice.

How Do I Get Micromanagers To Let Me Do My Job? It's Probably Not About You

When a client is micromanaging you… emailing constantly, giving feedback on things that aren't finished yet, getting into every detail… nine times out of ten, it's not about you.

It's about them. They took a big risk. They're spending real money. Their nervous system is reacting to all of that. And sometimes that looks like micromanaging. Control is a fear response.

Having a little empathy for that can actually lower your frustration level significantly. You stop making it mean something about your work or your abilities, and you can just… redirect.

Communication boundaries help a lot here. Something like:

“You can message me anytime you want. I'll be responding during my regular business hours.”

And then actually holding to that. If they text on a Friday night, you respond Monday morning from your email as if it just came in. You don't let clients drive. You lead.

Reminding them how every little change they ask for affects the timeline and price, and letting them decide is also effective.

But also… if a relationship isn’t working for you, permission to let them go. You don’t have to work with anyone you don’t want to work with – and make sure your contract has language around you being able to terminate at any time, and what happens if you choose to use that option.

How Do I Reset Expectations With A Long-Term Client Without Losing Them?

One of the most powerful conversations in the Q&A was from Jennifer, who has a 10-year client relationship that's gotten complicated. The primary contact left. The dynamics have shifted. The new contact wasn’t showing up for meetings. They weren’t paying on time.

When she finally got to meet with her new contact, she shared her frustrations and what needed to change – but then was worried she'd complained too much and messed things up.

Here's what I told her: You can't let the fear of losing a client keep you from changing the dynamic. You have to ask yourself… “At what cost am I keeping this client?”

When you're the one changing the rules in a relationship, you have to be willing to lead your client through that change with integrity and compassion. That looks like:

Acknowledging that things have been one way for a long time
Being clear about what the new way looks like
Presenting a new proposal that reflects where your business actually is right now (not a five-year-old proposal that no longer applies)
Building in consequences they didn't have before… like ‘if you don't provide content, you still pay, but you won't have social media posts.'

And being willing to accept that they might choose to walk away. That's part of leading. You can't actually change the dynamic if you're not willing to let them go or walk away, and you have to look at what it’s really costing you to keep them, not just today but in the future too, and decide if it’s worth keeping them.

The Employee Mindset vs. the Business Owner Mindset

I kept coming back to this throughout the Q&A because it shows up in almost every difficult client situation:

So many of us were raised and conditioned to be employees. To receive direction. To do what we're told. To make sure the person holding the purse strings is happy… or our financial security is at risk.

That dynamic doesn't work in your own business. Because you are not your clients' employee. You are the expert they hired. You lead. They follow your professional guidance. They make choices from the options you give them. They don't dictate your process, your deadlines, or your rates.

The flip side of this is that once you realize you're actually the one in charge, a wave of responsibility hits and it can feel like… I don't want to be responsible for all of this. And then we undercharge to make the responsibility feel smaller. And then we overdeliver to compensate. And the cycle continues.

Breaking that cycle is exactly the work we do inside the Web Designer Academy. Not just the scripts and the systems… but the mindset shifts that make those scripts feel safe enough to actually use.

Key Scripts and Magic Words for Dealing With Difficult Client Situations

Here's a quick reference from this episode:

For scope creep:

“I'd love to do that for you. Here's how it will affect the timeline. Would you like me to send you a quote for that?”

For design direction feedback:

“In my professional opinion, I'd recommend we stick with the original plan because of [reason]. If you'd like to explore the other option, I'm happy to put together an estimate and timeline. Would you like me to move forward with that?”

For content delays:

“If I don't have your content by [date], your project will be moved to [future date]. Your payment schedule continues as originally agreed.”

For misaligned expectations:

“Help me understand what you mean when you say X.” / “Can we hop on a call so I can get really clear on expectations and close the gap between what you're expecting and what I'm delivering?”

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

5 Subtle Proposal Mistakes Guide: webdesigneracademy.com/proposal

Web Designer Academy: webdesigneracademy.com

Book a Discovery Call with Shannon: webdesigneracademy.com/calendar

Browse all Profitable Web Designer episodes: webdesigneracademy.com/category/profitable-web-designer-podcast/

About Shannon Mattern

Shannon Mattern is a Pricing Strategist and the founder of the Web Designer Academy, where she helps experienced women web designers book higher-paying web design projects, charge more with confidence, run projects without overworking and burnout, and break through to their next level of income and freedom.

For Web Designers:
Website: webdesigneracademy.com | IG: @profitablewebdesigner | TikTok: @profitablewebdesigner | YouTube: @profitablewebdesigner | LinkedIn: shannonmattern

For Service Providers, Consultants & Agencies: shannonmattern.com

What is scope creep in web design?

Scope creep happens when a client starts adding requests that go beyond what was originally agreed to in the project. It often happens gradually and can add significant unpaid work if not addressed quickly. The key is to acknowledge every request positively and immediately connect it to a cost and timeline impact.

How do I tell a client their request is out of scope without damaging the relationship?

Avoid negative language like 'that's not included' or 'that's out of scope.' Instead, say yes to the idea and ask if they'd like an estimate. This keeps the conversation collaborative and positions the additional work as a choice they're making, not a problem you're creating.

What do I do when a client stops responding?

Follow up with a clear deadline and a specific consequence. Something like: 'If I don't hear from you by [date], your project will be rescheduled to [future date] and your payment schedule continues as agreed.' Then actually follow through. The consequence does the work for you.

How do I handle a client who micromanages everything?

First, recognize that micromanaging is usually more about their anxiety than your work. Set clear communication boundaries (you respond during business hours, from one communication channel) and hold to them consistently. And stop taking it personally... it makes the whole thing easier to manage.

What if I'm afraid to have difficult conversations with clients?

That fear is completely normal and it's one of the most common things we work through inside the Web Designer Academy. The scripts help, but what really makes the difference is building safety in your nervous system around these conversations so you can actually use the scripts when it matters.

About Your Host

Hi, I’m Shannon Mattern, and I’m a Pricing Coach for women web designers who are ready to stop undercharging, stop overdelivering, and finally build a simpler, more profitable business that actually supports the life they want.

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5 subtle Proposal mistakes costing web designers thousands

Find out the 5 subtle proposal mistakes even experienced web designers make that cost them thousands – and what to do instead.

TRANSCRIPT

Transcript

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Shannon Mattern (00:05.303)

Hello there.

Welcome to our PETA clients live Q and a. I'm so glad you all are here. So people are starting to trickle in and we'll let everybody get in the room and get started. So for those of you who are here, I'd love for you to find the chat and say, hello, let me know where you're listening from or where you're watching from.

And I'm so excited to answer these questions today because we've got some really, really good ones. So.

This is gonna be like super low key and as interactive as you want it to be. So feel free to have camera on, camera off, unmute when it's time to do questions, interact in the chat, however you prefer to participate. I'm here for it all. So.

Shannon Mattern (01:13.492)

Awesome. We'll wait a few more minutes and get people in the room. So if you did not already pre-submit a question for this Peta Clients live Q &A, feel free to drop your question into the chat. If you have a difficult client situation that you're dealing with that you would like to get some support on, I'm going to be here for an hour.

answering any and all of those questions. So please feel free to ask. And also I've got a list of pre-submitted questions from people who wanted to make sure that their question got answered today. So I'm going to start with the pre-submitted ones and then I'll move into the questions submitted live in the chat from you all. So.

Awesome. So as y'all are coming in to the room, this is a, what I'm calling the PETA clients live Q and A. So AKA paint in the, you know what, in case your kids are listening and I have a list of pre-submitted questions from our attendees.

And I'm going to answer as many of those as I can over the next 60 minutes. So please feel free to take advantage of this time that we have together. Your questions are a gift to the room. If you're just here to listen in and like hear what other people are going through and maybe get some insight on your own PETA client questions, by all means.

like soak it up. You learn so much from other people's challenges and questions. But also I always remind everyone, especially inside the web designer academy during our weekly live strategy calls, your questions are a gift to the rest of the room. If you are struggling with something, there is somebody else in this room that's struggling with it too that

Shannon Mattern (03:38.68)

that they don't even, maybe they don't even know that it's just like not okay and that it doesn't have to happen that way or maybe they're too afraid to ask or maybe they're like, yeah, that happened to me and I'd like to know how to handle that. So please feel free to ask anything and everything during this time that we have together today. And I am recording this and it will go on.

the Profitable Web Designer podcast. So that being said, this can be a sensitive topic if we're talking about specific client situations. So if there's any sensitive information in your question, we can be vague. We can use nicknames and aliases. I want you to feel really comfortable asking for help. And honestly, there's no reason to ever feel ashamed or embarrassed about any

client messy client situation that you've found yourself in because I've seen it all and I can promise you that like it's normal. It happens to everyone and it's okay. No matter what mess you're in. There's a way out of it. So just want to remind you that you know your questions are a gift.

to yourself and to everyone else. So yeah, I love that y'all are trickling in. So the theme of our call today is PETA clients. And it's one of those problems of success. So one of the biggest hurdles in starting a web design business is actually getting clients. So congratulations if you're experiencing PETA clients. That means.

you're winning. You're in a good place. You have clients, but we don't want them taking over everything, right? So you started your business for freedom, flexibility, financial independence, and we didn't do it to recreate a job that we hated or anything like that. So I always say that PETA clients are a problem of success because

Shannon Mattern (06:02.47)

Once you have clients, they reveal all of the weak spots in your business. The expense mindset, the employee mindset, the imposter syndrome, the people pleasing, the perfectionism, wanting to be the hero and save the day at your own expense. And ask me how I know because I've experienced all of these, especially the wanting to be the hero at my own expense or just

just not like leaving a problem unsolved. that is, those are one of the things that happens. Like once you start getting clients, all the cracks in your master plan are revealed and you look up one day and you find that you recreated a lot of the same dynamics of maybe the day job that you left or you created the dynamics of a day job you never wanted.

in the first place. And so for those of you who are here with me live, drop an emoji in the chat if any of that resonates with you. And so the way I see people try to solve the discomfort of dealing with difficult clients is by trying to prevent getting them in the first place, which I have absolutely done where I'm like, you know, let me just like build

the walls in my business so high and then build a moat around it and then put some barbed wire at the top. And if you can get through all of that, then we'll work together. So that's one way that we don't realize that we try to solve the problem of dealing with difficult clients. Rebranding, changing niches.

changing project management systems, changing offers, changing business models, burning your business down or starting over. I'm sure I'm not the only one. We have all done that. Yeah, at least like not the moat. I've definitely done that. Yeah, I used to talk about how I built an American Ninja Warrior course. And if you got through the course, cool, we can work together. But all of that effort and energy and like time, it compounds.

Shannon Mattern (08:23.136)

and it affects your revenue, your income, your inflow. And so the real solution and the shortcut quite frankly is building the skill to handle any difficult or unexpected client situation. And Peta clients are a huge time and money leak in your web design business. And I'm so glad you're here.

or you're listening to this on the replay because we're gonna fix that today. So like I said, we have some pre-submitted questions from people who submitted a question when they registered for this. If you are here and you have a question that you want to get answered, you have a real tricky, sticky client situation that you wanna talk through, please use this time to ask it. I also understand that you might not want to

come on camera and talk, that's okay. You can post your question in the chat and I'll ask you, like, do you wanna come on camera? You can just be like, nope, I will ask you the questions that I need to ask you to answer your question in the chat. We can communicate in the chat. If you wanna come on camera or you want to unmute, totally fine too. That's how we run our Web Designer Academy coaching calls inside our program. Come as you are, interact how you wanna interact.

I also know that sometimes when you have a question, at least this happens to me, when I'm on a coaching call or even in any kind of group and I want to like ask a question, I get completely flushed. My face turns red. My hands start to sweat. I get really nervous and my heart starts pounding. And it's for two reasons. One, everyone's going to be looking at me. But two,

It's because like, maybe I'm afraid to hear what I'm about to hear subconsciously or my nervous system is like, uh-oh, if you ask this question and you get an answer, now you're going to have to do something different. And that feels a little bit scary. Can anybody resonate with that at all? Drop a one in the chat if you resonate with that at all. Yes. Okay. So just know that

Shannon Mattern (10:48.456)

This is just information. You can walk away from this call and not implement the advice that I share with you. And I just want you to also know that my job, especially when I'm your coach inside of the Web Designer Academy, is to find a way for you that that advice feels safe for you to implement.

And that is different for every single person. So what might feel good for Jennifer to do may not feel good for Alyssa to do. And we get to know you as individuals and we help customize that advice to you inside of our program. So speaking of the Web Designer Academy, I normally do this at the end of our calls, but if the conversations that we have today,

feel like they've been the missing piece for you. If you're like, I'd really love to just be able to come to a call like this every single week, ask Shannon these questions anytime I need to. I'd love to just have strategies for all of this at my fingertips and be able to just talk to someone about what's going on and get help and not let it go on for so long. And not just one time with one client, but as many times as I need to, as the situation unfolds.

I'd love to be in a room with other women who have questions like this too. I'd love for it to stop feeling like it's all on me to figure out or like I'm doing everything wrong. I'd love for it to just feel easier than you're a perfect fit for our web designer academy program. So yes, We help you book projects at two to five times more than what you're charging now. That's fine and good. I'm sure you all have heard about that if you've been following me for any period of time.

We want you well compensated for the value that you bring and that you help your clients create. You're allowed to make money. That's all the shiny part of the marketing content that we put out there in a lot of our workshops, but it's, Mr. You've got the clients Where the Web Designer Academy makes the biggest difference for our students and it's why they literally say it's life changing. And it's where most programs fall off.

Shannon Mattern (13:07.266)

Like they're all about helping you get clients or build websites or build systems and processes. But after that, you're on your own and we don't want you stressed out, chained to your laptop, feeling guilty or resentful or always worried about clients being upset with you or disappointed with you or worried about your reputation and like ruining it and all of that stuff. We want you feeling happy and fulfilled and proud and in control and like the money that you're making,

is worth it and not like it's not worth it. And that's why the Web Designer Academy is a year long program. We support you through an entire year's life cycle of your business where seasons change, life happens, things happen flow, clients go sideways on you and you learn how to manage all of it. And so the Web Designer Academy is really perfect for you if you're in this messy middle space where you're like getting clients. But every time you get to the end of a project, you're like, my gosh.

I don't want to ever work with someone like that again, or I wish I would have charged way more. And we're going to talk about a lot of the nitty gritty PETA clients stuff today. But I just wanted to let you know about the web designer Academy. if, like I said, if this feels like what what's been missing for you, there are a few different options for us to work together that are new for 2026. So I'm going to drop a couple of links to those in the chat for you to

you know, check out while you're listening in on this call. And after I send this over, after we end this call, I'll send over the replay with these options for you. So you can book a call with me to talk about your situation. You can schedule a program tour to check out the Web Designer Academy, or if you've been hanging out on the sidelines and you're finally ready, see some names in here.

we can talk more about what it looks like to work together. So with all that being said, let's go ahead and dive in to our pre-submitted questions. If you did not pre-submit, you can go ahead and put questions in the chat. So I definitely see a couple of those in there. So we'll get to those as well. But I'm gonna kick us off with a question from Sophia.

Shannon Mattern (15:33.368)

So Sophia says, I'm really struggling with scope creep. And also when working with other designers, feeling like I'm not good enough and that I just keep making mistakes because it's usually not because my work sucks, but because there's a miscommunication and a lack of alignment. And I'm very frustrated with this because I genuinely worry I won't be able to close clients. Does that resonate with anyone else here?

Drop a two in the chat if Sophia's question resonates with you. Yeah.

Yeah. So Sophia, you're not alone. Lots of twos in the chat. Jennifer, Justine, Megan, Sarah, Ali. So you're not alone. Just want you to note that. And so when it comes to scope creep, which I typically define as, you know, we agreed upon this, you know, this project scope and now

my client's getting so excited and they're like, but wait, I want to do this and I want to do this and we should add this. And while we're in here, let's do this. And then their eyes just get like so much bigger than their wallet. Sometimes, right? And so there's a couple things going on with Scope Creep, but my favorite Scope Creep shutter downer sentence.

Is that a word? Scope creep shutter downer is, yeah, I'd love to do that for you. Here's how much time it'll add to our project. And would you like me to give you an estimate for how much more that's going to cost? And so a lot of times clients are just asking for things and they're not even thinking about

Shannon Mattern (17:37.742)

They're not even really thinking, that would or wouldn't be included. Inside of the Web Designer Academy, our whole entire proposal process sets you up to have the scope creep conversation before the project even starts. So we teach you how to set boundaries with the project in a.

different way than probably you've ever been taught to do that by like having your clients choose what they are not getting, choose the scope that they're like not getting for lack of a better way to describe that. But yeah, when clients start to ask for more and more and more, I'm just going to assume that of course they know it's going to cost more. Of course they know it's going to take more time. And

I always just say, yep, we'd love to add that brand new functionality for you. Here's how it's going to affect the project timeline. Or I won't even say it like that. I'll be like, would you like me to put together an estimate for you and let you know how this is going to affect the timeline? The sky is blue. Of course you're going to pay me more for this. So that's one of my favorite ways.

to handle scope creep, but it takes practice because you're probably like really afraid that when you say that the client's going to get mad at you and be like, how dare you tell me that this is gonna cost more? I expect that this was included and our fear of disappointing a client or angering a client or being seen as unprofessional or whatever your particular fear flavor is,

comes up and then you're just like, it's just easier for me to just do this. It'll just, it won't take very long. I'll just get it done. And then I don't have to deal with this difficult conversation. Anybody resonate with that at all? Like, yes, Sarah's like, yes. So we avoid discomfort at our own expense.

Shannon Mattern (19:59.788)

So the 15 minutes of discomfort of having that conversation versus the eight extra hours that I'm working and I'm not charging for it and I'm not getting paid for it, that I could have landed another $10,000 project in that time. So I always talk about like,

There's self-protective behaviors that we do that make perfect sense, but they come at a really high cost. those are the things that we help you dismantle inside of the Web Designer Academy. So magic words for your scope creep. For all my people pleasers out there who love to say yes to everything, say yes. It's easy. You're like, I get to say yes.

That feels good, but it gets to be followed up by, would you like me to send you a quote for that? And then if the conversation goes, however it goes from there, probably depends on how you set the project up in the first place. And so if you have a very specific client situation that you're like,

I'm afraid of what they will say next and you want to talk through it. Let's talk through it while you're here because I'd love for you to leave this feeling like you know how to handle that. and Sophia, I don't think she's here with us live, but she said when working with other designers, I feel like I'm not good enough and just keep making mistakes because there's a miscommunication and a lack of alignment. And I'm frustrated. I think also one of my

favorite sentences in that situation, sometimes it's like, we do need to hop on a call and have a discussion. Or it's like a, help me understand what you mean when you say X. Like I think of,

Shannon Mattern (22:13.302)

And it's just getting super neutral about it because what we end up doing is like we fill in the gaps with stories. We're like, well, this must be happening this way because I'm not good enough or they think X, Y, Z. And I always say in the web designer Academy, like if you're going to tell stories, tell good ones. Like, and also because we don't know one way or another, if they're thinking something bad about you or not. So why would we just make

an assumption that they're thinking something bad about you. But the miscommunication piece and lack of alignment, sometimes we just have to like get in a room with someone and have a conversation and get on the same page about things. Like a lot can be left to interpretation over email. And when you take the lead and you're like,

Hey, can we hop on a call so that I can get really clear on what the expectations are and close the gap between what you're expecting and what I'm delivering? Like when you communicate like that and you're in integrity around it, like that's going to go so much farther than just trying to sit back and figure out what someone wants. So.

Justine said, I feel like, I, I feel like I want my project proposal to do all the work, but people don't read. People don't read. They don't, they do not read. And so it's our job to put the proposal in front of them and then remind them over and over and over again of what they agreed to.

in the proposal. That's why our package matrix strategy that we teach in the web designer academy, I always talk about it publicly as like, it's this tool to help you charge more. It's this tool to help you charge three to five times more than what you're charging. But it's also this tool that helps you on the back end. Once you've booked the project to be able to refer to over and over and over again, to be like, yeah.

Shannon Mattern (24:35.98)

I'd love to do that for you. When we decided to work together, you declined all of those things that you're asking me for right now. Would you like to add them back in? And then they're like, you know, yeah, I do. Let me pay you for that. Or they're like, you know what? No, it's not that important. So part of dealing with difficult clients is also just being willing to remind them over and over again.

Just assume when they're asking for something out of scope that they don't know it's out of scope. And another one of our favorite terms is like, the sky is blue. it is a fact that this is out of scope and I don't even like to say it's out of scope. Like I don't, we don't use negative language in any of our communications with our clients in the web designer academy. We're like,

I don't even say, no, you can't have that. It's out of scope or no, I won't do that. It's out of scope. All of our scripts are based around, here's what we agreed to. Here are your options. How would you like to move forward? Because it doesn't feel good to constantly be like, no, you can't have that. I said, no, why are you still asking? It feels like you're a punitive parent talking to a toddler. And I'm pretty sure that's not what any of us want to spend.

are our days, days doing with grown adults. great question. So next up, we have Tiffany, who says, have a client who's super nice. I consider them a friend, but their website, but with their website, they often tell me how I need to design. For example, telling me how I should have all the typography kerning or how the website should scroll.

then sending me complicated JavaScript centered websites that are way above what we agreed upon. I am always open to design feedback, but often their design suggestions are misguided and I really don't like having to constantly redirect. So how do you manage a client like this? Tiffany, are you here? And do you want to talk?

Shannon Mattern (26:52.62)

You're here. Awesome. So you are welcome to unmute. You can also just go through the chat. But tell me more about a misguided design suggestion example. Yeah, cool. Your mic's not working, but we can chat. All good. What's an example of a misguided design suggestion?

And while you're typing that in, you just have to let people know the cost of what they're asking for. To be like, sure, I can absolutely add this complicated JavaScript for you. I'm gonna estimate that that's about a half day's worth of work. It's gonna add a thousand dollars to our project and delay our timeline by a week. Would you like me to go ahead and get started coding that for you?

Or would you like me to go ahead and start finding a contractor to outsource that that could delay us by a couple more weeks? Like, tell the truth. And so. There's this thing that happens that I don't know why we think that we have to say yes to every little extra thing, but it's that employee mindset that happens. It's like,

We've been hired to do a job. I'm an employee, you're my boss. You dictate to me everything that I'm supposed to do. And if I don't meet all of your expectations, now my financial security is at risk because you're the one in control of all of this. And so I have to sit back and like figure out a way to manage you to keep myself safe. And so...

This is like a dynamic that as the owner of your own business, that you get to like remember who you are. And it's a total shift when you were raised to be an employee and conditioned by our society to be an employee that you're not the one running the show. Like you, you're the one running the show.

Shannon Mattern (29:19.266)

So she said they send me heavy JavaScript sites that are an immersive experience on a two week deadline. But I have more examples, but that's one that stressed me out. And so that's kind of like some of your language there showing me how you're thinking. You're like, they send me a heavy JavaScript website and gave me a two week deadline.

Shannon Mattern (29:44.952)

I know this might sound like a shock to all of you, but your clients can't give you deadlines. It's your business. And you get to decide whether or not you can turn something around like that in that kind of a time. So like if I'm in this situation, one, probably I think what you're saying is like, actually this heavy JavaScript immersive experience isn't even a best

isn't even like going to add to this project. Like it's not the right fit for what we're doing here. So one is like standing in your expertise to say, yeah, that looks freaking amazing and super fun for this thing. But for what we're building for this use case for our client, this is, I don't see this as necessary and it's also could have the opposite effect.

of what we're trying to go for. So my professional recommendation is that we stick to our original plan. However, if it's really important for you for us to do that, it's just not gonna be possible for us to do that in a two week timeline. So I'm happy to research that for you.

figure out what the additional cost is going to be and let you know how that's going to affect our overall project timeline and when I could potentially get that done. Would you like me to move forward with that? And that is also that little magic question at the end. Would you like me to move forward with that? I'm giving you options that I'm okay with. I'm the business owner. You're my client, but you're not my boss.

and I'm not your employee, and I'm going to always think about, like what's in your best interest as my client, but also what's in my best interest as the business owner. And I'm no longer doing things at my own expense to avoid difficult situations, which as I say that, please know this takes time to change. So when we work with people who come into the web designer academy, a lot of the

Shannon Mattern (32:05.494)

A lot of people come in thinking like, I'm just going to ignore the mess in the closet. Right. It makes me think of that episode of friends where they discover Monica's closet and it's just like a mess. It's like packed and it's like her dirty secret that she has this big messy closet. And so we have women coming in to the web designer Academy and they're like, I have this closet.

full of client disasters. I'm just gonna like ignore that over here. And I'm going to start fresh with hate discovery and package matrix and systems and processes and boundaries. And I'm just gonna like implement that all on my new clients. And I'm just gonna like deal with all of my low paying PETA clients over here. And

Eventually, I'll have replaced all of my PETA clients with these delightful new clients that I brought in with these systems and processes. And I love that for you. But then also, within the first 30 days, then we're like, you know what, if we just cleaned up like 25 % of this closet, you're going to get like 50 % of your time back.

and have so much more energy and capacity to deal with the rest of them and bring on the new clients in the new way. So yes, Jennifer's like, I'm just gonna invite you into my closet. That's what we do in the Web Designer Academy is we help you clean up the closet. There's so much time and money sitting on the table there for you to pick up and cleaning up these situations just by

creating some safety around it. Like I said, I do not expect you to just suddenly be like have the confidence to like go have these conversations, but.

Shannon Mattern (34:13.6)

you do have to remember it is your business. And you get to tell your clients, you're an expert, you do know better than they do. They might like something or want something to look a certain way, but you have your reasons why you designed it a certain way, like stand behind it. But also, like come up with options.

that you're willing to give them. And none of those options is you working for free to make them happy. So yeah, exactly. Sarah said, thank you for this. A lot of my issues also stem from clients telling me what they want and coming up with their own designs and trusting instead of listening to me and trusting me. Yeah. So it's just having a conversation about like,

Shannon Mattern (35:05.524)

What is the customer experience? Like going back to what you know, like we designed this for a reason because of the customer experience. And I understand why you would want to see this, but let's put ourselves in the shoes of your client. And in my expert opinion, and then it's probably making a lot of you want to throw up when I say the word expert, but in my expert opinion, like I recommend we do this, but it's your choice.

and then you allow them to make the choice and there's a cost attached to the choice that wasn't already agreed upon. So great question. Next up is Rosie who says, what is the best way to shift the dynamic with a micromanager so that they trust my professional judgment instead of questioning my every move? Are you here, Rosie?

don't know if you are here with us, but so one.

Shannon Mattern (36:28.541)

And so nine times out of 10, their micromanageriness is not about you.

it's about them. And it's like, almost a fear response that they're having from like, taking this bold step to take on this project or do this thing or make this big change. And so just having a little bit of like empathy for what they're going through and why they might be micromanaging is just one thing to consider.

and to not assume that they don't trust you and that they're questioning your every move, right? Because that like puts that just the assumption that they must be micromanaging me because they don't trust me. I would question that assumption, right? There are many other reasons why a client might be micromanaging you. They might be a total control freak and they might be micromanaging you, but also,

it could be that they just took on a big risk and their nervous system is reacting in a way that's not helpful. just being curious and open as to why that might be happening. The other thing is that if like there it sounds like, and without you being here, I can't like really dig into the dynamics of it or the

way that it's going down, but it kind of sounds like there's some communication boundaries that maybe we're not set. Like when I hear micromanage, I'm hearing like this client is emailing me at all hours of the day and night with change after change after change. Maybe they're getting into

Shannon Mattern (38:32.876)

like looking at things before I've even said that they're ready and they're giving me feedback on unfinished projects or unfinished pieces and parts. Has this happened to anyone here? Like, ask me how I know. They are, yeah, they're just like asking about like, not asking about things that like, it's not time for that yet, but they're like putting the cart before the horse in a lot of situations.

And so again, it is a lot of redirecting, but it's like kind redirecting and it like, when you don't make it about you that like, they must think I'm doing something wrong.

Shannon Mattern (39:20.618)

The annoyance level drops down, the frustration level drops down, but then there was also the opportunity to set some communication boundaries, right? To be like, I always say this. You can message me anytime you want. Like feel free to email. I'm always like, you can email me anytime you want. I'm going to respond during my regular business hours. If someone like texts me or DMs me or

I will respond from our normal communication protocol when I'm working, when it's time for me to respond. So like, let's say they DM me on a Friday night with something all micromanager-y. When I'm back online Monday morning at like 10 a.m.

I'll email and be like, saw your texts coming through on Friday, just following up here. You know, like I just don't allow clients to drive if that makes sense. So,

And so sometimes like the answer isn't getting them to trust you. The answer is to just continue operating in integrity and redirecting them and redirecting them. So if you were here, I would definitely like dig deeper and ask you some more questions about exactly what's going on. And we would like put a specific plan together for you and this client. And that's the kind of stuff we do inside of the web designer Academy with you too. And I always tell people like,

Okay, I'm gonna give you this plan and then you're gonna go do the thing and then come back and let me know what happened. And we'll talk about like what to do, like what the next steps are depending on how they respond. So we really do hold your hand through difficult client situations. We have another question. So Coleman, I'm gonna answer your question and then Jennifer, we're gonna move on.

Shannon Mattern (41:32.14)

to you and then I'll go through the rest of the questions in the chat. So if you have a sticky client situation you want some help with, go ahead and post that in the chat. So Coleman said, most of my issues involve clients not sending graphics, images, et cetera in a timely manner. And by the time they do, they have changed direction and they end up redoing. And I end up redoing what I already created. So I know a lot of you were like, yeah. So another...

So one, just giving content deadlines at the start is a must. If you didn't give a content deadline at the start or the client is ignoring your content deadline, then it's a matter of reaching out and being like, hey, I need this content from you by this date. If I don't receive it by this date, your project is going to get moved to the end of my development schedule.

or some date far in the future that's going to force them to actually prioritize getting stuff to you. Because what's happening is like other things have taken priority for them. You're not a priority. The website's not really a priority. So they're just like, I'm just going to do all these other things and then they'll get back around to it. You have to do something to make them make it a priority. And typically that something is a consequence that they're not going to like.

which is having to wait longer than maybe they want to. And for you, yeah, you don't wanna wait either. You wanna get this done. But the fact of the matter is it's not getting done. They're not responding. So you get to actually just put this option in front of them and then put it out of your mind if they choose to not move forward. We're still gonna collect payment though.

we get to untie your payment to deliverables, especially when the client isn't moving forward with their end of the deal. So it's like, hey client, just a reminder, all of your stuff's due Friday. I haven't received anything from you. Will you be giving me your stuff on Friday? Friday comes, you haven't heard from them. Hey client, it's Friday. Haven't gotten your stuff.

Shannon Mattern (43:58.059)

stuff together. You haven't gotten me your stuff. If I, as long as I get have that in my inbox by Monday, we can make our original project plan. If I don't, you're going to be moved to the end of my queue and it's going to be May before I can work on your project. You just like let them know what's going to happen. Like the sky is blue and then you can say, and if anything has changed,

And you wouldn't say this now, but then like when they pick back up and they're like, I had some new ideas. I'm not going to do that anymore. Great. Let's talk about that. And we can look at how that changes the scope of what we originally agreed upon because I already delivered the logo and all of this. And that's not a revision. That's a complete redesign. I can scope out what a

complete redesign is going to cost. And then you can let me know if you want to move forward with that. I'm literally just stating all of this stuff as if the sky is blue. And I'm not telling them like, no, that's not included. No bad, wrong. Like I'm just saying, OK, this is where we're at. This is what we're how we're going to do it. So yeah, it's just it's just setting very clear deadlines and not just deadlines, but like and.

If you don't meet that deadline, sky is blue, here's what's gonna happen. And then you being willing to hold to it in the of allowing your client to sit in the consequence of what they've done and also learning the skill and nuance of creating options that you're okay with. Like whatever the client chooses, you're okay with.

That's definitely something to practice. Emily said, hey, that website that was supposed to be finished six months ago, I finally have my new text for you to update. But while you're at it, xyz, and can you migrate my site because I changed hosts, blah, blah, blah, blah. Again, yeah, I'd love to do that for you. That's going to be at least an additional day's worth of work and about $1,000. Would you like to move forward with that?

Shannon Mattern (46:19.406)

I'll send you over an invoice and we can get that scheduled. And then the reason why that scares the crap out of you to do that, that's where our real work is. We have to create some safety for you around that. Jennifer asks, I have a 10 plus year long client relationship and recently the primary contact left.

I was finally able to voice concerns to who's maybe now my primary contact. I explained that I need to give a new proposal for services. He's going to discuss what they want with another team member and come back to me with the list. So that should be interesting. I do plan to package matrix it. So Jennifer's in the web designer Academy, by the way. So she's using our proposal tool to set all of these boundaries. She says, I'm not sure what that will look like since we are essentially their marketing department. We'll work on that with you inside the program.

But you said, I'm worried that I put my foot down too much or complained too much during our conversation. I don't want to lose them, but I also don't want to be walked all over anymore. Can anyone relate to, I don't want to lose them, but I don't want to be walked all over anymore? Drop your favorite emoji in the chat if you resonate with that. Yeah. Thank you for asking this, Jennifer. I see that you're here. Do you want to fill me in on?

where things are at? Yeah, it's hard because it's a 10-year relationship. So that was a little fraction of it. There's a lot of dynamics. It's a larger organization. So I interact with a lot of different people. And so this new contact immediately tried pushing me off to the other people. And I was like, I need to speak to you. And he didn't show up for our call.

and I emailed him and I'm like, so I was at the call and you weren't there. And he's like, sorry, sorry. And so I called him and.

Shannon Mattern (48:26.286)

So I feel like I not to complain and I feel like I maybe complained a little bit more than I should have about one of the team members. And so I'm having like that kind of yucky feeling a little bit and hoping that I didn't mess that up. a hangover? Yeah, yeah, I have that. I said that we have to get paid on time.

I let him know that we might not be doing their social media anymore because they weren't doing their part and so we weren't able to show up and do our part. I let him know how some of his actions were making them look bad and making me look bad and so he got a lot. And I've worked with him. I mean, he's been one of the people I've worked with. So I've worked with him long time and so he took it really well. It's also a family business and he's not family so he understands those dynamics.

It could end up being really, really good. I don't know what it's going to look like. I have ideas for what I can do for them. I'm curious to see what list they come back with. And I think the hard part for me is going to be putting together a proposal that fits where my business is at now. He asked me to send over their old proposal. And I'm like, Jerry, I have revamped that proposal probably five times since we wrote that. That's how

Like you're on such an old planet this, don't want to send that to you because it's not realistic anymore. So.

I just, want to, I want to, I really don't want to lose them. Like they have been through every phase of this business with me. They have walked through cancer with me. They have dealt with me while I made mistakes. And also, you know, I need clients that can respect us and show up and do their part also. So,

Shannon Mattern (50:32.29)

Yeah. And I always talk a lot. That's no, that's super helpful. When I hear the full like, a there's, you can never take up too much time or talk too much. Every, every piece of that is important for me to help you. So I just appreciate that, that you do that. It is a hard place to be when you're like, I am growing and evolving.

And I want this dynamic to be different than what it has been. And also I'm afraid that if I change, I'm going to lose this client. but we cannot let that fear, like that's kind of where we have to stop and be like, but what will it cost me to keep them?

And so...

We have to be willing to, I love how you handled the whole like send me the old proposal. You're just like, that's not even valid. It doesn't exist anymore. Like just because that's what we did before. Like I think you're, you're, you're doing, you're, you're trying to change how we've interacted before. And I think there's going to be a little bit of a messy middle.

as you do this. And what I keep seeing you do is like holding your ground in these little ways because you're like, no, it's not okay for me to not get paid. And no, it's not okay for us to be waiting on you for social media and then getting blamed when things don't get out on time. Like you're, you're like establishing a new normal and that is hard. Yeah. And also you.

Shannon Mattern (52:28.832)

are stepping into a leadership role where he's like, I wanna see the proposal and we're not adversaries here. This is, going to lead you, I'm the one changing the rules here. So now I'm gonna lead you through what this change looks like and I'm gonna do it with integrity and compassion. And I also realized that because I'm the one changing the rules,

you may decide that this relationship no longer does fit for your company and you have to be okay with that on your side. And so I always say to people like, don't change the rules until you're ready for them to walk away. And so one of the things we help people do when they come in is like, okay, if we have this messy closet to clean up,

Do we want to start with the biggest mess?

Or do we want to start with the littlest mess and how do you want to do it? There's no wrong answer here. You're starting with the biggest. I start with the biggest. I have some other little ones. They're easier to manage, but oh gosh, they're a pain. I invited Krista in because I told her I was asking this question. So she's never jumped on one of your calls before, so she's been listening to you. She's in the background saying, let them go. They never give me anything I need to get anything done. Let them go.

So then there's also like creative boundary setting that allows the client to make their own decision to leave if you want to be less direct. There's so many ways that we could attack this, but it is a matter of that whole question of I don't want to lose them, but I don't want to be walked all over anymore. It's like at what cost am I keeping them? Yeah. Sometimes the revenue is worth it.

Shannon Mattern (54:34.144)

In the moment as a tech, we're like, here's my plan. I'm going to keep them until I've replaced them. And then the moment I replaced them, I'm setting that boundary and I'm.

gonna see them out the door. So a shout out for you. We've been doing that. That's been the past year is I have waited to say anything because I wasn't financially in a space where I could do that. And then I joined your program less than two months ago and now I'm in a space where I can have this conversation. So thank you. And also my

primary contact left. So it's like the door open for this new relationship to merge. So, and I know, I know what they need. I don't need to do a paid discovery. I know their business. I know what we need to do to help. I know who's in charge making the calls. He's not the one I'll ever talk to, but he has a lot of sway and I know how he thinks. And so I think

it's gonna be figuring out how to put a presentation in front of them that meets their needs. So I feel good about it. So I feel like I'm actually doing work they actually need me to do and then letting them make that choice. Yeah. And that's gonna be part. I hear the passion in your voice for the relationship and for the company. And I think the other thing to bring to this conversation is your passion for their success and.

I think when you put together the new package matrix for them and you lead them through that, like you said, you don't need to pay discovery to figure out what their needs are. You know what they are. When you present that to them,

Shannon Mattern (56:23.928)

Bring that passion of like, isn't, you had your moment of frustration where you're like, the dynamics of how this work is going is not okay, we need to be paid and whatever. That's, he heard you. I don't think that you need to like beat yourself up about saying that or worry that you complained too much. The air is cleared, now it's time to shift into.

Here's what we can create for you. When we work together as a team, here's what's possible for you focusing on the outcomes and the results and all of the things. The relationship needs some new life breathed into it. And then like you said, like you're going to build the boundaries in that weren't there before. So that as this progresses, they'll either they'll either continue or they won't.

and they'll either follow the new boundaries or they won't, but you'll have a new language to guide them through that and you'll have a clear out if it's not working. Well, and I think too, like one thing I've never built into place before is like, if you don't provide me what I need, then like what don't.

What am I allowed to do there? Like, I've just always assumed that they would, right? So my contract with them currently is you provide us the content that we need for because we do their social media. And but they don't give us anything. So we're still trying to do our job with no content. And and what it really needs to be is like, if you don't provide this, you still pay me. You just don't have any social media. That's correct. It makes us look bad to be putting

not good stuff out. it's also just like because it's not even just that. It's like when we when we made this commitment to each other. The commitment I made was to not take on other clients to fill this space that you're paying for for me to have the capacity to do this. And I'm still paying someone and I'm still paying to do the work. So it's not sitting there with nothing to do. It's not as if. Just because

Shannon Mattern (58:41.76)

Like we carved this out for you and there's a cost to it. So it's restructuring things so that that's all and we'll help you with that. Like we'll make sure that's all buttoned up for you. yeah. Great question. Definitely mind shift that I don't think is normally.

I don't know. It's not a thing that you just learn when you're starting out in this industry, that you're allowed to set boundaries and have rules and have expectations of the clients. like, yeah, I'm actually the boss. You're actually the boss of the client. And that's the biggest shift. And it does take a big and we're not bosses, but we're like, we're not their boss, but we do lead them and we're on the level with them. And that's one of the biggest.

challenges that I think a lot of us face is like realizing that. And then, and then there's like this whole wave of like, I don't want to be responsible for all that. And then that messes with like, things too. it's just, that's, mean, you know, that's the work we do inside the program is like, untying all of that because the, what happens then is that we're like, well, if I don't charge that much, then it's not, then the responsibility is not so high.

And here I am under charging and over delivering.

So it's, yeah, you're welcome. Thank you. Great question. So Megan put in the chat, here's my vision and how I want to go about it. Client at first meeting. asked, I emailed, asked for content about a million times. I hear nothing. They finally tell me to just use AI to write the content and do some images from them. I designed based off our initial meetings, right? Using AI, tell them I've done two pages. Can they look over it? They take forever. Get back to me and say, you made it exactly the vision I had then, but I don't like it now that I see it.

Shannon Mattern (01:00:37.996)

I make it the way we want, send the second time. Now again, crickets over and over. So yeah, like this situation, this is like more of a systems and processes, not more of, this is a systems and processes opportunity in terms of like how and when you're communicating with the client to get this feedback and like,

when you're having them sign off on certain stages of the process. But that it's also very much like the, yeah, I can absolutely create all the content for you based on AI. That's gonna add an additional week and an additional $2,500 to this project. Would you like me to move forward with that for you? So I mean, I know it's like, oh, it's AI, it's fast, it's whatever, but there's still discernment. Does it align with the strategy?

is what this is getting me accurate. How am I going to take this content and, like fit it into the website, just all of those things. So with a prod, like with something like this, where it like, initially, like they start to, they take forever to get back to you. Like there's a, there's several levers that we could pull in that situation to bring a project like back.

that back on track. But also, you know, sometimes it's just like, okay, they're not getting content to me, we need to set up a call. And I'm going to have a captive audience. And I'm going to like pull it out of them. Like, be like, hey, we need to get this done. We're going to set up a call this Tuesday at 2pm. And I'm going to ask you all the questions that I'm to get everything I need to keep this moving forward. If you can't, then you're going to get moved to the back of the line and

But the payment schedule continues as originally agreed to. And then Megan said, kind of similar to this, we have many clients who don't have any idea what they want the site to look like. So I have zero direction from them on where to go. Luckily, if they've been happy, but I'm always worried that they're not going to like it. Fear of feedback is a big thing we deal with inside of the web designer academy too. And so how do you...

Shannon Mattern (01:03:06.122)

communicate with clients about design and like when you have those conversations and when you show them things and what types of questions you ask them when it's time for feedback. that kind of back to the scope creep conversation, we have this whole like revisions do's and don'ts protocol of like, don't just send it to the client and be like, let me know what you think. Do be very specific about.

the feedback you're asking for and be silent on the things that you're not asking for feedback on. And I always tell like vendors that I'm working with, like for people that I hired to do projects for me, they'll be like, let me know if you have any feedback. And I'm like, I'll have an opinion on anything you want me to have an opinion on. like if you don't tell me,

I could just go through and give my opinion on all of it. But I want you to tell me, I only need your feedback on this thing. I'm like, thank you. That's a relief to me, because then I'm like, I trust that you've made all the decisions in my best interest. And you really do need my feedback on this thing, because you're missing information. So that's another thing that we

teach inside of the program is like, how do you lead these projects so that there are these checkpoints along the way? Let's see. Justine says, have difficulty when clients want to change direction. I have client calls, have mood boards, approve color and spawn, then it seems like they pull a 180 after seeing it all together. How do I stay on course or gracefully course correct? Yeah, you're like,

Okay, I totally hear what you're saying. So here are options. If you want me to redesign a mood board, I can absolutely start over. And that's going to add this much time to our project. And would you like me to put together a quote for that? know, there's and being really clear about like, what's a revision and what's what's not upfront can help you have that conversation better.

Shannon Mattern (01:05:30.52)

Stacy asks, how do you know what the content will be until after design? It seems that my design process will dictate layouts and which sections of content will be used or do others use a more standard format and therefore know the amount and length of content beforehand. Everything, everybody does it so differently. Stacy, but like whatever your process is, you like set up the phases and then figure out like

what needs to be done and when and get all set all of those deadlines. Megan said, I think the crickets thing has been the biggest issue with this client. Yeah. So when a client is ghosting you.

Following up is huge, annoyingly so. But it's like, hey, I haven't heard from you. If I don't hear from you by X with feedback, here's the consequence. I'll be tabling your project until such and such time that it's going to be really painful for them to pick back up.

Inside the web designer academy, we help you figure out like the exact words that you want to say to this specific client and this specific situation. So I'm kind of generalizing here, but yeah, this is the type of stuff that we help our students with all of the time. And like, it's not always just like the what to do. It's the, okay, but once I do that, then.

what if this happens and what if this happens? And it's like helping you create some safety for your nervous system to take the action and then also helping you figure out like what actions to take in what situations. Plus we have tons of systems processes and strategies for preventing P2Client situations in the first place. like I said, these are the types of things that we do inside of the Web Designer Academy in addition to

Shannon Mattern (01:07:36.59)

packaging, pricing, sales, and all of those things. So we help you through all of it. And if you're interested in learning more about what it looks like to work with us, I'm putting a few links in the chat. The first link is to our Web Designer Academy program page, and that has all of the details about the program, what's included, options for working together.

And then I'm also popping in a link to book a call with me. If you want to discuss what it would look like for us to work together and talk about which one of our options might be the best fit for you. And then also we have a program tour that we do every week, every Tuesday at 3 p.m. You can come sit in on one of our live strategy calls and hear real questions from our real members.

and then meet them, see what it's really like in there and then hang out with me afterwards and I'll walk you through the program and answer all of your questions. that's it for our PETA client live Q and A. I appreciate you all being here. Thank you so much for coming, for your questions, which were a gift to everybody here. And I...

would be so excited to officially meet you all, chat with you on a call, see how we can help. So we'll look forward to seeing you all later. I just put those links in the chat and I'll follow up with the replay with those as well. So thank you so much. You're welcome, everyone. Have a great rest of your day. Bye.

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