#166 – September 2025 Income Report

Shannon Mattern (00:01.678)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the profitable web designer podcast. And this is our September, 2025 income report. I can't believe it's already September. I am joined by my cohost and our client success coordinator at the web designer Academy, Erica Nash. Hi Erica, welcome back.

Erica Nash (00:21.759)

Hi Shannon. Thanks. Time flies.

Shannon Mattern (00:23.918)

I know what so for those of you who are new to the show every month I share an income report to go through how much money we made how much money we spent all the lessons learned along the way and even though I no longer run a freelance web design business what I have come to see over the years is how we think about money

and the way money works and making money and spending money and all of our thoughts about that really affect the outcomes that we create in our business. so this is what I hear from all of our listeners is that it's their favorite episode. And I'm so glad because it's my favorite episode, because it gives me a reason to take some time to reflect on the business and almost

like notice the thoughts that I might be thinking that are creating wanted or unwanted results for me, have a space to kind of process those things and talk through them. And hopefully our listeners have some shifts and learn some things for themselves. So yeah, that's why we do this. And the way that it works is Erica interviews me on this podcast. So she has a set of questions that she asks me every...

Erica Nash (01:41.345)

All right. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:49.87)

show and then it goes where it goes. We just talk about whatever, whatever has come up for us. You know, during the past month in terms of money mindset and things that happen in life and business because it's all the same. We are not one thing in our business and another thing in our life and it all flows together. So it's really interesting to see.

Erica Nash (02:15.293)

are connected.

Shannon Mattern (02:17.438)

all connected. So I'll hand it over to you Erica to kick us off.

Erica Nash (02:21.917)

Amazing. So let's start with the total inflow for September 2025. How much was it? Where did it come from?

Shannon Mattern (02:29.09)

Yeah, so I don't know how it's already October and we are like talking about September income and how much it was and where it came from. And I'm like, where did October and September even come from? Like, let alone the money that we made. I'm like, what day is it? What's happening? So inflow for September was $42,141.41.

Erica Nash (02:33.367)

I'm through.

Erica Nash (02:44.012)

Literally. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (02:59.502)

And that came from people joining our programs. Like it came from two new web designer academy students who took advantage of our painful bonuses. It came from a new next level mastermind member who took advantage of our painful bonuses. We also had renewals happening, new members paying on our payment plan.

our normal payment plan, like revenue that comes in, a new private coaching client, someone who had paid a deposit a few months ago and their full payment came due because they started in September. So it's really, really interesting to me to see how many more people are choosing to just make a single payment and take advantage of all the incentives that I like stacked into that because

I've been testing a lot of different things to incentivize people to make a single payment while still offering our payment plan because we love offering choice and flexibility and things like that. But also it helps me a lot to get all of the money upfront in terms of like operations and cashflow. So I think I've got a pretty sweet stack of bonuses that are making people say, I want those. So I'm going to make a single payment when I, when I joined.

Erica Nash (04:22.327)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (04:27.775)

Yeah, I was going to bring up the same thing. I think it's so interesting that this stack of bonuses is like the one that people are like, yeah, I can't pass that up, which I think is awesome.

Shannon Mattern (04:37.239)

Yeah. And it's interesting that it's like one-on-one coaching calls with me throughout their time in the program is like the biggest difference is like when you make a single payment, you get a quarterly one-on-one coaching call with me, which they're like my favorite thing to do is to have just like a one hour deep dive with our students and.

Erica Nash (04:58.936)

You

Shannon Mattern (05:05.111)

they're really impactful for them too. So I decided to like package that up with the painful incentive and yeah, it's a win-win. So I'm really happy about that. yeah, was September's inflow. And when I actually looked at the number, I'm like, okay, hold on. Let me look at like the past three months and...

Our past three months have been some of our best three months in a couple years. Looking back at our, at our just monthly income from, I don't know, like mid 2022 and beyond. we, when I went all the way back to when I sunsetted our free five day website challenge training.

And we were only operating the web designer academy. And I looked at like that income and these are our three best months since retiring the free five day website challenge and all of the revenue that came from that. So that's pretty big milestone.

Erica Nash (06:16.673)

That is a pretty big milestone. And I think that says a lot about the work that we've done over the past, I'm gonna say two years, just kind of, you know, working with Lee and Sanitane and the rebrand and like all of the things that we've done to sort of disassemble the Ninja Warrior course and reassemble something that like, you know, works really well for us and for potential clients.

Shannon Mattern (06:46.079)

Yeah, we almost like we still have funnels and I put that in air quotes. And you can't see me but I'm putting them in air quotes. But we also like kind of re engineered a lot of things to meet people where they are. When did we launch the like I know we rolled out the brand piece by piece by piece like throughout this year but when did we actually like do our reveal and our new website was that in July?

Erica Nash (07:15.649)

think so. I think it was like mid-July.

Shannon Mattern (07:17.491)

Yeah, so I don't think it's a coincidence that our best three months coincide with these shifts that we have made in our visual branding, the strategy underlying it, all of the conversion rate optimization that we've been doing. And it's interesting to me too, that yes, some of the people joining are like they just found us.

but some of the people are like, I've been hanging out on the sidelines for a while and now I'm finally ready. And so things are shifting. And so I can't wait for Lee to do like an analysis. Cause she always gives us every month, like this beautiful analysis of like, here's where these people came from. Here's, you know, how long they've been, like

on the sidelines consuming content, like here's what they said about when they were finally ready. And so we kind of get to see the things that we're creating working in real time, which is really fun. And also I always am like, yeah, it's the stuff I did 30, 60, 90 days ago, a year ago, two years ago that are creating the outcomes and the results that we're having today. And.

I'm so interested to see in another 30, 60, 90 days how the rebrand compounds to create those results. Cause I think it like opened the door for people who had been waiting on the sidelines to maybe finally come through. And then also like people who are just meeting us with our current branding and customer journey for the first time. I'm like, so curious.

Erica Nash (08:53.399)

Mm.

Shannon Mattern (09:12.353)

how they're gonna move through everything and make the decision to join us.

Erica Nash (09:14.549)

Yeah. Tell me more about that. Tell me more about like the people moving, how the brand might compound to like move people through that have been waiting.

Shannon Mattern (09:30.26)

So...

When I think about why we embarked on a rebrand in the first place, it was because we had been putting together so many things haphazardly over so many years, testing, trial and erroring, see what's working, what's not working. Let's try this, let's try that. And we gathered a lot of data and

I feel like people can, I'm not saying, how am I trying to articulate this?

I think that they can sense that like things are unsteady, not even unsteady. It's just like, yes, our offer was always the same, but it's like, here's this thing and this thing and this thing and this thing. And I think like all of the different ways our attention was split, trying to land on, like trying to experiment, we were also splitting their attention, you know, and

So once it was time to stop experimenting, gather the data and like make some decisions, now we can like bring some full focus to everybody, stop splitting their attention and carry them through in a really like focused intentional way. So I think it was a lot of...

Shannon Mattern (11:10.027)

And I always say, you're throwing things against the wall to see what sticks, you're doing it right. Because you do have to do that. And we definitely did that and things, some things stuck and some things didn't, but now I know what sticks and I can just do more and more and more of what sticks. And I think there's almost that consistency and certainty and stability creates trust.

Erica Nash (11:14.199)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (11:27.937)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (11:37.687)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (11:40.014)

And I'm not saying that I don't think people mistrusted us before because I think we had a lot of things that we were doing that were consistent, stable and steady. Like we've always been here. That's like pretty consistent, stable and steady. But I think there were some other things that were not consistent, stable and steady. And I feel like now we, now it is our brand is consistent, stable and steady across platforms.

the events that we're doing, consistent, stable and steady, like how we're making offers, all of those things. And that just is a...

it certainty and trust. And I think that we're going to see that compound over time.

Erica Nash (12:24.789)

Yeah. my gosh. I love that so much, obviously as a brand designer and as your brand designer, I love to hear that. but also I just think it's such good info. And I think, I think this tells us two things. One, truly the power of a brand, truly like the difference that it can make in a business. And just like in the level of confidence that you're approaching, you know, sharing whatever it is to the world, but also

Shannon Mattern (12:30.089)

You

Erica Nash (12:53.003)

The other thing I think that this is an argument for is keeping track of your data. Like I could shout it from the rooftop, like just keeping track of the things that you're doing so that as you're throwing spaghetti at the wall, you get a well-rounded picture of truly what is working and what's not working. So that as you begin to sort of, maybe I'm not gonna throw this type of spaghetti anymore and we're gonna like, you know, try something else or whatever, like you're able to.

narrow those things down so that you can get to a point where it's just like, I know exactly what spaghetti I'm throwing at the wall.

Shannon Mattern (13:30.401)

Yeah. And like very neutrally too, because I feel like when you're not keeping track of your data, you can get into these like all or nothing stories, like nothing I do works or, or you miss the magic or the nuance of the thing that you, that you tried. And when you, when you tell yourself that nothing you're doing is working, then you feel defeated and dejected.

Erica Nash (13:32.969)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (13:57.484)

And when you feel that way, it's hard to maintain momentum and take action to create the results that you really want. it's hard, it is hard. And I'll tell you from like sitting in this seat to continue to show up and do the things and believe that what you're doing is worthwhile when the sales, the leads in the sales aren't coming in, you know?

and to continue to persist in spite of the lag in results is you have to believe in what you're doing and to believe that the results are on their way to even continue to put the effort in. And if you're telling yourself over and over again, it's not working. Nothing I'm doing is working. You're gonna quit well before you.

see the results of that. And so I just I love that you're like, it's so important to like, keep track of here's what I did. Here's what happened. Here's when it happened. You know, those types of things so that you can be on to yourself when you're when you're like, your brain wants to tell you that your efforts aren't working.

and what does that get you to do? Start over. And how many times do people start over and start over and start over and start over before they even get to the point where. Like they're going to create momentum. I see it happen all the time. that people start over right when what they should do is just wait in the discomfort of the results to come in.

Erica Nash (15:26.583)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (15:47.317)

Yeah, it's so hard. It's so hard. Been there, pivoted too many times. So I think that's so good. And obviously, you know, all of the decisions that we have made along the way has impacted like the outflow of

you know, each month. And so let's talk about that. What was the total outflow for September and where did it go?

Shannon Mattern (16:19.851)

Yeah, so the outflow was $27,314.52. So that includes about 10,000 is our salaries, payroll taxes, all of those things as W2 employees of the company. Again, about 2000 of that is all of the software and tools that we use to run the business. I think of all of those little tools like added together as like,

one employee almost like they automate so many things and do so many things for us. So those types of things, the graphic design project, like our rebrand project, we spread that out over the entire year. So between the graphic design, CRO, podcast production, things like that, that's an additional total $3,000.

Erica Nash (16:48.126)

Okay.

Shannon Mattern (17:14.477)

professional services are my accounting insurance, HR, like payroll services fees, plus what I pay to my financial coach, Jen Boss, who helps me not just like go through my books every quarter, but like make really strategic decisions based on our vision, mission and goals on what to do with my money.

how to creatively make more and how to spend it in a way that like is supporting why I'm doing this. That was about 1600 total. And then that's like, those are all kind of like normal expenses that happen every single month. What was out of the norm in September was the second half of the Airbnb for our next level retreat. So we have our next level mastermind.

which is for more advanced women web designers. Their problem isn't like getting clients or things like that. They're really ready to like grow by maybe growing team or maybe they're ready to wind down or maybe they're ready to charge more, lots of different things, but they're typically making more than their minimum baseline revenue and they're looking to kind of shift into what's next for them. So that's our next level mastermind.

And we host an in-person retreat for that every year in Destin, Florida. And I rent the biggest Airbnb I can find. And we all get together and do three days of, I don't know, transformation. It's business planning, but like we leave different people every year. So we paid for the first half of that Airbnb when I booked it. I think I booked it back in March this year.

And then the second payment for that just came due. So that was part of the expenses. And then I made a big fatty payment to my line of credit based on what Jen and I like plan to do with like extra overflow money from private coaching clients and things like that. So it is so like, I'm just like the inertia that I was like,

Shannon Mattern (19:38.413)

creating on that and how much momentum I am now creating on that. I'm like, that's going to be done in no time at this point. And it used to like hang heavy on me. And now I'm just like, it's yeah, I can't imagine it'll still be hanging around in 2026. So

Erica Nash (20:00.213)

That's incredible.

Shannon Mattern (20:00.609)

That's very exciting. That's where all of the money went. And then we added $14,826.89 to our cash reserves for those future months where inflow is potentially less than outflow. Although, you know, the goal is to always have inflow more than outflow. And of course, like, that'll be set aside to like pay taxes and different things as well.

So yeah, that's the money situation for September. Like it's October now, September of 2025.

Erica Nash (20:39.351)

I'm so curious about the line of credit payments. Do you feel like, you not gotten support from Jen with the financial coaching, that you would have been able to get to this place or do you think it would have continued to hang over you and be really heavy?

Shannon Mattern (20:48.108)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (21:11.564)

So it's all about our thoughts, right? You know, it's like the way I was thinking about it upon reflection, we talked about this on our last podcast episode is that like, I kept thinking that like just a little bit wasn't good enough. And that I think it was just like a general like,

Erica Nash (21:32.299)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (21:40.269)

thought every month of like, am I going to make enough money this month to cover everything? And that questioning continued to just have me hoard money and not not do things with it. Because in my mind, it's like, well, it's safer to just collect this and leave it in operations. And even a crew

accrue or only pay interest and just keep accruing interest and paying the interest. And like, you know, when you do that, it's like, I'm not paying this down. I'm just paying the price of not wanting to deal with it every single month. And to me, the way I was feeling the price was worth it. I'm like, I'm willing to part with a few hundred dollars a month in interest rather than like

with more money while I still worry about having enough. Because I'm like, well, if I pay more, then I'll have less in my operating account. But like, this is a line of credit. It's like basically a pile of cash sitting there that I can just like move from the line of credit into my bank account and use it like cash. It's not like a credit card where, you know, you take it.

Erica Nash (22:36.769)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (22:59.552)

I've never taken a cash advance, but I know that that's an option and the interest rate is like crazy high. This is not like that. This is a, this is a SBA line of credit sitting there. Like it is basically cash. And so for me, for the way I was thinking about it was like, well, I can't pay it down because then I won't have cash, but like, she's just like, well, if you ever gotten a place where you needed more cash, you just draw from the line of credit. And I'm like,

yeah. having these conversations with somebody who's very neutral about the whole thing. She's like looking at all of our inflow, all of our outflow, all of our commitments, what I owe, what I've committed to pay, like payroll, things like that. And with a very neutral

like zero judgment mindset and like knowing what my goals are, why I do what I do, what the mission of our company is, plus like my lifestyle and freedom, flexibility, financial independence and things that Floyd and I want to do in our life.

just like business coaching in the web designer academy, I will like say things as if they're true. And she's like, well, here's another way to think about that. Or here's a nuance that you may not have considered. I can see why you would take these actions when you believe that it's this dire or like that it's this risky to make this move and let me de-risk making this move for you. So having someone

to talk through that stuff with has been, just, I feel, I think that's part of why I feel so calm about our revenue now. And I don't know if, I don't know if like me feeling safe with it allows me to bring more in, but it seems like that's what's happening.

Erica Nash (25:17.899)

Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine that it doesn't play some kind of role like.

Shannon Mattern (25:24.736)

Well, cause I don't feel like I know that like our students tell us this all the time. Like I feel bad marketing when I feel needy, like I need money. And then I feel like I'm just doing outreach or just following up because I need the money. And that makes them feel gross. And so one of the things that I have to do is help them shift out of like that by being like, none of us are in business.

Erica Nash (25:43.287)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (25:54.081)

because we don't need the money. Like that's just a given, right? Like we all are running businesses because we want and need the money that it will generate because just like we take a job because we want and need the money, a job will give us. So because that's just universally true, let's just set that aside and then be like, well, why else do you love working with clients? Like you like helping people, you like.

Erica Nash (25:56.375)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (26:08.47)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (26:21.296)

I'm doing something creative. You like empowering others to create more than with you than they could without you and kind of like really shifting into like, okay, but why? And so what I realized is like, no matter how much money I had, I was creating the perpetual need for more, the need for more need for more need for more, which I felt probably always tainted.

a lot of the sales and I wasn't really passionately detached from the outcome. I was very much attached to the outcome. And I think now I truly am passionately detached from the outcome, which is allowing me to like,

Erica Nash (27:01.857)

for me.

Shannon Mattern (27:06.764)

even just helping with sales conversations. And I know we've talked about that the past couple of times where it's just like, I'm like, well, maybe if you want to work with us, maybe possibly like pushing people like farther away because I was like too detached. And now it's just like, it's just not even a part of the conversation anymore, which is so interesting and so weird. I'm just like,

Erica Nash (27:31.852)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (27:37.223)

I can't like I know how to create more money when I need it. I feel that freedom. And I also know I deliver 10 times more value than the money that I received too. So I think that that's like an interesting thing to remember too. So yeah.

Erica Nash (27:53.256)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (27:59.079)

That was a long answer to the question, but I don't think I would have seen the way that the things that I was like just believing to be true as if the sky were blue without having that outside person to have those conversations with.

Erica Nash (28:14.591)

Yeah. yeah. mean, we just we get to we're too close. We're too like emotionally embedded to be able to see it all clearly. And yeah, sometimes you do just need somebody to talk to you like the sky is blue. Like, why wouldn't this be true? Or here's, you know, the reality or whatever. Because then like maybe you didn't even know that it was possible to think that way.

Shannon Mattern (28:20.822)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (28:44.847)

And I think that we get to do that a lot for Web Designer Academy students, but we encourage them to do that with clients as well. This gets to be just really skies blue. So I think that's incredible. And I think that says a lot about the power of.

outside voices and the need for support.

Shannon Mattern (29:10.282)

Yeah. Well, and here's the thing about Jen Boss, who I've been working with her since April or May. She works with so many other businesses. She's seen a lot of different things. And so it's not just like,

I just feel like, I can rely on this person because they're doing this for so many other businesses. When I have these fears of like, am I doing it wrong? Which is that whole question is neither here nor there because there is no wrong. There's just like, am I going closer to my goals or more away from them based on the decisions that I'm making? I can.

Erica Nash (29:36.373)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (29:50.519)

you

Shannon Mattern (30:00.107)

When I think about how many other people she's helped with that, I just feel a sense of like comfort that like, a relief. Like, I don't have to figure this all out on my own and she's helped so many other people. And I feel like that's what we do for web designers when they come to work with us. They're like, like.

Erica Nash (30:13.908)

in.

Shannon Mattern (30:28.086)

They've worked with so many other people just like me. I don't have to carry this all on my own anymore. I can like almost hand it over to them and let them like hold it and guide me. And that's like, it's so cool for me to experience that as like a customer or a client in other situations where I'm just like, it is just so nice to not have to be the one holding it all. Like it's lovely. It's my favorite.

Erica Nash (30:38.325)

Yeah,

Erica Nash (30:52.401)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, what a gift.

So let's talk about some of the important things that happened in September. Where did September go? We don't know, but what happened?

Shannon Mattern (31:06.124)

you

So I was looking at my calendar and I did the very first training, new training, new format of a training that I tested out. And we talked a little bit about this last month, but I developed a new training called Five Secrets to High Converting Proposals. And I...

decided to put it together when I had the realization that like, our package matrix strategy is the through line for everything we do here at the web designer Academy, everything we teach. So we teach you how to like shift from charging for deliverables to charging for outcomes and results. help you increase your prices without feeling like you're

ripping people off or without like over delivering, we teach you how to, set and hold boundaries with your clients in a way that feels good to you and empowers them and doesn't treat them like they're toddlers or make you feel like you're mean and bossy and punitive. And, and all of the reasons why we're afraid to hold boundaries with people in the first place and like how to.

Like start and finish projects on time and without scope creeping all of these things. It's funny to me that like, I think we, we have been at least operating from the package matrix since at least 2018, if not earlier. And I don't even really talk much about the package matrix. I talk about like the outcomes that the package matrix creates or how, like all of the.

Shannon Mattern (33:02.09)

all of those things, like just the way that I talked about them, but I'm never like, and the tool that we give you to make all of these things happen is this way of structuring your proposal and making offers that like allow all of those blocks to fall in place to make it easier. And so I was just like, I keep talking about

the web designer academy and higher prices and not undercharging and not over delivering. I wonder what would happen if I started talking about how, why we do proposals the way we do and how it helps you shift things out and the problems that it solves and all of those things, if that would like help position us differently than a lot of the other programs out there.

So I put together this training called five secrets to high converting proposals, because that's what the package matrix is. It helps you get more yeses at higher prices, but then it also does all of these other things, which sound too good to be true, but we know that they're not in the web designer Academy. And I just did like a trial run of teaching this.

new way. And then I evaluated my data. I'm so proud of myself. Like how many people signed up? How many or how many people registered? How many people showed up live? How many people enrolled in the web designer academy? What went well about the training? What would I like to change for next time? And then before I had even like finished the like, like the post

Erica Nash (34:32.097)

Bye.

Shannon Mattern (34:55.584)

training, like enrollment incentives, period. I'm like, okay, we're doing it again. And here's what I'm changing. And my friend, Jason Gracia, who is, I'm in a mastermind with him. He runs a company called Swift Sites, but we're also good friends. He was like, just do that training over and over and over and over until like you've really refined it. And

and it's like getting you the results that you want. And he also said until your eyes bleed because he knows that I will get like bored with it or have, get impatient or feel like things aren't happening fast enough and think that it's not working and want to do something new. And so I committed to doing that. So I did it on the 5th, I did it on the 26th.

Erica Nash (35:31.735)

you

Shannon Mattern (35:53.568)

I don't think it's a coincidence that we had one of our highest revenue months as a result of that, even though like our enrollments didn't all directly come from that. But it's been really fun to kind of shift how I'm talking about things and to do that training. And then also like,

I talk about this a little bit, but like back in April, the Simply Profitable Designer Summit, I was like, why don't we just start inviting people to actually just like come to a strategy call or come to a next level mastermind and like see what we're all about. And so that's been really cool too, because we have had more people requesting to come to those. And then after that, I get to talk to them and learn more about like,

their business and goals and make a recommendation. Like, I think you'd be a great fit for next level or a web designer academy. Here's what it looks like to join. like, that's been happening more. So, yeah, I'm just going to keep doing the five secrets to high converting web design proposals training and educating people on like, this is the thing, the tool that we use to help you.

do all of these things that we do and see what happens. But so far, I'm liking what's happening.

Erica Nash (37:28.503)

Yeah, and I think sometimes too, and this goes back to needing outside perspective and support, but I love that Jason told you to do it until your eyes bleed because I think, think like, I don't know, just sort of like preemptively having that information allows you to just continue pushing forward.

Shannon Mattern (37:39.915)

you

Erica Nash (37:56.503)

And knowing I am going to get to a point where maybe it doesn't feel as fun to give this workshop. Maybe it will always feel fun. that's what saying. Maybe not. But maybe it gets to a point where there's something about it that you're like, I'm going to do it again. And you keep doing it. And I think there's something really, really beautiful just in the name of entrepreneurship.

Shannon Mattern (37:56.543)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (38:06.121)

I don't know, I love to do this. I love workshops, they're so fun.

Erica Nash (38:26.077)

of being willing to continue to do something in the name of refinement, in the name of like getting better, in the name of reaching the right audience. And like it is a form of throwing spaghetti at the wall. It's just like, this is the strategy. Now let's continue to throw spaghetti to like figure out exactly how to do the pieces of, you know, this thing or whatever. So I just think that that's, I don't know, really great.

Shannon Mattern (38:55.605)

Well, here's what our data tells me. When I do a live training where I show up and I invite people to be in the room with me live and I'm there to answer their questions and give them the next step, we get more people enrolling in the web designer academy than if it's something pre-recorded that they can just sign up for, watch any time and there's like no, like there's

No live component. Like we know that live components work better. And I personally like doing that. Like I like to show up for stuff like that. So that's what our data tells us is like every single time Shannon does something live and invites people to join the web designer Academy off the backend, more people say yes, then if she pre records something or puts up a replay of something that she already has done and then makes a funnel. So

That piece of data we know. And then it's kind of back to this same conversation of like, if I wasn't making the amount of money I decided I needed to make to be able to like pay off the line of credit in one payment or pay myself like more money the same amount today.

And the next like six months, like it was all or nothing black and white, then it wasn't working or I needed to do something different to make that happen. So that trickles back to, if the training that I did about six sneaky places, web design businesses, lead time and money, or the profitable web design business roadmap or pricing mindset makeover or insert all of the different trainings that I've done.

over and over and over again. If I'm like, I did that once and we didn't get a hundred people or whatever crazy goal number that I randomly decided on. Well, that training must not work. Let me throw that one out the window, create a whole new one. Do you know how long it takes to create a whole new training, to write it, to design the slides, to set up the promotional emails? Erica knows.

Shannon Mattern (41:20.027)

to set up the funnel for the registration for all of it for a new training. That's a pretty time intensive, project to do something that we don't even know what the outcome is going to be. So when I decided to do this five secret, five secrets to high converting proposals before I even embarked upon writing it, I'm like, we are doing this and only this for the rest of the year.

and I committed to doing it multiple times because what I was experiencing is the same thing I see our web designers experience when they're like, I tried this marketing strategy or I picked there's so many different things. do it. I'm I put so much time, effort and energy to it. I quote unquote launched it to the world. Nothing happened right away. Let me start over.

And that's what I was doing with my presentations. And so the opportunity costs, the time taken away from me to continue to do that over and over again was really, really high. And I think what I'm seeing in terms of, we talked about this on past episodes, like with the rebrand, how much time the rebrand saving me.

I will have more time to do top of funnel activities like go beyond other people's podcasts, summits, go be more visible in other places, pitch myself for other things. When I'm not like head down building a new presentation, even though now it takes way less time to make slides by the way, like, which we know. So I think that that's a part of this too, of like the commitment to do the same one over and over and fine tune it.

Erica Nash (43:03.511)

you

Shannon Mattern (43:13.521)

is also freeing me up to go do so many other things that are gonna like bring us more visibility and more traffic. And I won't be like so exhausted from how much I'm working behind the scenes on something that's like, that's like, yeah, I'm working a lot, but who's seeing it? You know, like, I just spent like,

Erica Nash (43:27.063)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (43:37.009)

Mmm. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (43:40.875)

six weeks on something that 130 people saw once, like awesome. And how about then I show it to another 130 and another hundred, you know, over and over and over again. So yeah.

Erica Nash (43:53.781)

Yeah. Yeah.

I there's something in there too about how we define failure and how we get to redefine failure to mean whatever it is that we need it to mean and not failure in terms of that something is a failure, but in terms of...

Shannon Mattern (44:21.227)

think a failure is like unwanted outcomes or I expected this thing and something different happened. like, it's very neutral in a way. Like I did this expecting this, this happened. There's a gap. Like that's how I think of it.

Erica Nash (44:34.697)

Yeah, and-

Erica Nash (44:41.353)

Yeah. I think that like, whenever we are approaching marketing, and I say we in terms of like anyone having to market, you know, if you own a web design business and you're approaching marketing, just committing to doing it consistently and just continue, throw a spaghetti at the wall, throw a spaghetti at the wall, throw a spaghetti at the wall and continuing to do that. I think the commitment.

allows us to reframe failure as that and not as I suck, my business is a failure, I'm never going to make any money and go down that spiral. And it kind of brings to mind, this was probably, gosh, this was probably three years ago. There was someone who I was considering working with that I really, really admired and their business was

very successful. I knew them well enough to know that their business was really successful. And I was considering working with them and I attended a live Q &A call and I was the only one there. And that blew my mind. It blew my mind that this person was super successful and I was the only person there. And they didn't think of it.

as a failure, they thought of it as an opportunity for me to have like this one-on-one interaction with them and like they could get really, we could just get really honest about, what I was looking for, whatever. And that was like a pivotal moment for me to reframing what failure looks like because at that point in my business, had I tried to do something like that and one person showed up, I would have been distraught. That would have been the most epic failure.

Shannon Mattern (46:16.107)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (46:35.287)

And that began to provide like a little bit of a reframe for me into what business actually looks like because it doesn't have to be all of this stuff that we see on social media and whatever, and like all of these, you know, massive crazy like launches and results and like blah, blah, blah. And I just think that, I don't know, I just think that there is something really, really special about committing to doing something because you know,

it will pay off in the future and like committing to it without it having to produce results in the like immediate next hours or days.

Shannon Mattern (47:19.135)

Yeah, just thinking of like, every thing counts. Like, I think that the, I think that I didn't realize where I'm like, well, that didn't count because, or that didn't count because, or it's not enough because, and I'm just like, where did all that come from? Doesn't matter. I'm dropping that mentality and being like, every little bit counts.

Erica Nash (47:24.759)

everything counts.

Erica Nash (47:47.329)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (47:48.052)

You know, and that just makes like, I know it's October and this is our September income report. But right now I'm experiencing the space that all of these changes were supposed intended to create for me. And noticing where I have an urge to meddle.

Erica Nash (48:06.711)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (48:16.425)

because I'm not used to having space and actively resisting the meddling because before I would have defined the space as like, I have to do something to create more. And that actually was having the opposite effect. And so it's been really interesting to like notice where I'm like, I see how I was getting in the way.

Erica Nash (48:35.126)

Mm.

Shannon Mattern (48:46.099)

of the outcomes before they came because of my misguided belief that what I was doing wasn't enough. wasn't creating enough more, more, more was creating less. which is really interesting.

Erica Nash (49:04.607)

And like, how does one get to that place where they... Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (49:09.586)

It's a decision.

Shannon Mattern (49:14.259)

It's a decision. You and I were chatting before I hit record where I was like, I had gotten into this really bad habit of like working weekends, like Saturday, Sunday morning, because no meetings, nothing on my calendar. I could just like open up my laptop and do whatever I wanted until whatever time of the day. And then it turned into like a habit. And then it was just like, I see how this is like,

interfering with the things that I, the reason why I even do this. And there's always something I could be doing, but I had to like, just draw a line in the sand for myself that I don't work weekends anymore. And it's my business. I get to decide what gets done when I get to renegotiate deadlines. If I need to, get to whatever.

There's no, I never have to do anything. And so I had to, I had to just decide. And I think it really is just a decision. And it's noticing all the reasons that you think you can't do it, write them all down. And I'm gonna guess that they're all just not true. They're just things you think like, the sky is blue. I just believe this.

And you get to question like, hi, I noticed I'm thinking I can't have space because X, Y, Z. Is that really true? Actually, no, it's not. get to decide all of this. So what's going on underneath that? Where am I feeling unsafe or whatever that I think I can't do this. that's coaching. That's what we do all day every day. And the Web Designer Academy, we give you.

Erica Nash (51:05.045)

You

Shannon Mattern (51:07.765)

We teach you how to create a package matrix. teach you how to run your business with it. And it brings up all the reasons why you think you can't run your business the way that you really want to. And then we cut you through all of that. But it really is just making a decision and managing the discomfort that's going to come up when your brain tells you it's not safe to do that.

Erica Nash (51:29.055)

Yeah, I think that's the key piece that I know in my experience that's what gets me is managing the discomfort and like trying to figure out the way through. That's good stuff. What else? Were there other important things that happened in September?

Shannon Mattern (51:40.383)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (51:46.985)

Yeah. So I got to speak at Jacob Casas brand builder summit, which like kudos to Jacob for pulling off such a huge event. know what it's like to run a summit. He run ran an incredible event. and I got to participate in a live panel where some really, really good questions were asked. And I got to, just kind of talk about my philosophy on,

You know, how, like why we work with women web designers and a lot of the things that we help them with specifically, and pricing mindset and money mindset and boundaries and all of those things. So that was really fun. And I actually was doing that live session from a hotel room in, Darien, Connecticut, which is just outside of Greenwich, Connecticut and close to.

New York City because I was invited to speak about our package matrix strategy, a co-working space to a group of women entrepreneurs in all like different types of businesses. And so I went there to present on package matrix and it is just fascinating to me as I start to take this work to more people outside of web design how

The money mindset stuff is exactly the same. The pricing challenges are exactly the same. It doesn't matter if they're selling five figure, like consulting packages or three figure, you know, service packages. They all think and feel the same way. Like, is it too much? Am I ripping people off? Like all of this stuff about why they can't charge more. And then I share with them package matrix. And you can see.

Erica Nash (53:15.852)

You

Shannon Mattern (53:43.467)

the my favorite part is seeing the looks on their faces when they're like, like they have the realization. And then they're like, this solves this thought that I had in this belief in this belief in this belief and like you show them like a whole new way of doing it. And it is so fun to do that in person because I just get to see the transformation happen on their faces. And then

Erica Nash (54:08.865)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (54:12.68)

I got to answer some incredible questions, but so that was really fun. But the interesting thing to me was at the beginning of the year, earlier this year, I was like, I really want to do more in-person speaking. And so I've had a couple of opportunities to do that this year at Josh Hall's Web Designer Pro at for this event at the Haven coworking space in Darien. If you're in that area, it is like,

so beautiful. You should definitely go check it out and be a member because it is gorgeous and I would love to live there and go work at that place every day. But I walked into that co-working space and I don't know how to say this other than like they treated me like I was somebody. Like somebody important. Somebody who's like the guest in the space. Like the hospitality, the level of hospitality made me feel very uncomfortable.

Erica Nash (55:10.583)

Mm.

Shannon Mattern (55:12.482)

And I noticed that at Josh Hall's event too, like when people would come up to me and like, thank me, like it made me feel very uncomfortable. And I was just like, okay, this is definitely something that I get to work on. That like, I don't feel worthy of people treating me this nicely or like, or like they're being put out by treating me this nicely. Like it's a burden to them to treat me this nicely.

and that I shouldn't let them because...

It's like, I don't know how to say what I'm trying to say, but it just felt so uncomfortable. I'm nobody special. Don't put me up on a pedestal. And it's interesting that that's where my thoughts go, because that's probably not what they're doing at all. It's just like, this is our guest. If we love to make our guests feel welcome, we want to make sure that they

This is our standard for how we treat people. We're appreciative of her coming here to share these things. And I noticed that I'm just like, ooh, don't like other me. I'm just like you. Don't treat me special like nothing. So it's really interesting. I'm really uncomfortable. And I'm really uncomfortable like in any situation where there's like a high level of service being provided. So.

it's just interesting because I'm like, if I am going to put myself out there to speak more, I better get used to like people in person saying thank you for that. And not being like, I don't think like, you know, just to be able to like, interact normally with people who want to say thanks for you said something that like was helpful to be able to receive that. Yeah. So that was really interesting.

Erica Nash (56:56.091)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (57:07.959)

Yeah, to receive that.

Shannon Mattern (57:15.486)

And part of my plans for 2026 are to take package matrix to more than just web designers and to speak more and do more things. And so like I'm being shown where like the sticky parts are that I get to get to work on. So.

Erica Nash (57:35.519)

Yeah, I am curious if that, like

inability to receive, though, like, you know, whether it's compliments or thank yous or, you know, like, service or whatever. Does that push up against any of your big assumptions? Like, do you?

Shannon Mattern (57:58.385)

for sure. So for those of you listening who don't know what a big assumption is, in our next level mastermind, we lead you through this process to reveal to you a way, something you might believe about the world to be true that you like try to protect yourself from. And so I have a big assumption that if people don't like me, I could lose everything. And

it seems like that's tangled up in like, I also worked in like service based business. Like my very first job was like as a server at a restaurant. And I just also remember having to treat people nicely who were treating me terribly. Like working as a waitress and working in like food service where it's like, I have to be nice to them even if they're treating me awfully right now. And so

maybe there's some like, they're just treating me this way because they have to and I want to make sure that I'm never like asking for too much and treating like treating them terribly. Like probably at a restaurant if I could go get my own food I would like if you bring me the wrong thing, I'm never going to send it back. Like that type of stuff. So I think that that pushes on that big assumption of like

Erica Nash (59:09.975)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (59:21.788)

I need to make you like me at all costs to the point where like, I won't even let you do your job. And like, that's probably part of it. And then I think, you know, we'll probably talk about this more next month, but like, there's also like safety.

Erica Nash (59:25.333)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (59:30.579)

interesting.

Shannon Mattern (59:46.827)

If they're safety receiving accolades, they're safety receiving feedback in any type of way. Like whether that's feedback that might be perceived as negative or feedback that's positive. So it's like, if I don't feel safe to receive positive feedback, I probably don't feel safe to receive negative feedback either. So I'm just going to prevent any opportunity to receive feedback.

Erica Nash (59:54.199)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (01:00:16.951)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (01:00:17.418)

which would like cause me to maybe not go do speaking events or things like that. So it's creating just safety to be able to receive all of it and know that I'm still me either way. And I can let other people, other adults be adults and I don't have to, manage that for them, manage their feelings for them or

Erica Nash (01:00:36.001)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (01:00:43.756)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (01:00:46.122)

I can like receive it and be grateful and appreciative instead of like push it away and deflect it.

Erica Nash (01:00:53.059)

Mm-hmm. That's so hard to do, though, as somebody who also struggles with receiving all the things. That is so hard to do. And I can kind of see... Oh, yeah, go ahead.

Shannon Mattern (01:01:04.458)

No, I was going to say even with negative feedback, being grateful to receive it or feedback that could be perceived as like, like that, like that's out of alignment with who I see myself as a person, negative feedback. Um, not just like straight up trolling, like that's just not going to get my attention, but, um, I think it's just being willing to be like appreciative for.

Erica Nash (01:01:08.727)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Erica Nash (01:01:27.296)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:01:33.886)

feedback that's constructive, that's going to help you improve as much as feedback that's just appreciative. Thank you.

Erica Nash (01:01:43.115)

Yeah, yeah, I have really struggled with accepting feedback, like, you know, in the past. And so I've had to do a lot of work on not just like, like fully spiraling after and what was true for me was that if the feedback wasn't overly positive, it was automatically negative, even if it was like actually positive.

If it wasn't like over the top, like, my gosh, I love this. I'm so, you know, thank you, blah, blah, blah. Like it was perceived in my body as negative. And one of the biggest reframes for me was remembering that any time somebody is giving me feedback, whether it is. Just neutral feedback. Somewhat positive, overly positive, somewhat negative, overly negative.

there has to be a sense of trust for that to occur. And so then it was like, okay, well, I've created a space where there is trust involved and I can be extremely grateful for that trust, which then in turn allowed me to be extremely grateful for the feedback. So I know that we have students in our community that continue to struggle with feedback. So I'm sure there are listeners that also.

struggle with feedback as well. Maybe that will help some.

Shannon Mattern (01:03:14.154)

Well, yeah, and you like in our rebrand project, we talked a lot about like how I also don't love to give feedback because I'm afraid of harming someone. And so it's like a double, it's like a two sided thing giving and receiving feedback. But what you really modeled for me and I have very taken to heart is like the safety you created.

Erica Nash (01:03:24.287)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (01:03:41.173)

for me to give you feedback and how you invited it and how you were like, is important to me to know where the gaps are so that we can get to the final result. And obviously, that's paying off in a big way for us. And so you modeled for me just even creating

Erica Nash (01:04:06.508)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:04:08.682)

creating safety for someone to give the feedback first, think creates safety for you to receive it as well, for the person on the receiving end to receive it. so, and I've had the opportunity recently to like, to do that, to like create safety to receive feedback. And I think the more that I'm able to just receive the feedback, however I perceive it,

Erica Nash (01:04:14.965)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:04:37.546)

positive, negative, like whatever is gonna be like my next next next level. So.

Erica Nash (01:04:45.003)

Mmm. Yeah, and you know, I think what I found, because like it took a while like to get to that place where I could create that space and invite that feedback, but I think what I found was that

When I didn't do that, what I was doing was trying to avoid feedback at all costs in the name of protecting myself, but what was at all costs. But what was happening was that was creating a container that made it unsafe for feedback in all ways. And also it created a space that required more feedback. And so it was like doing the opposite of what I needed it to do. And so what I found to be true was that when I

Shannon Mattern (01:05:08.08)

Yes, at all costs is the key word.

Shannon Mattern (01:05:24.72)

Right.

Erica Nash (01:05:31.305)

invited more feedback, it was safer to receive, it was safer to give. It just removed, it made it neutral. It removed the need for it to be one way or the other. And it just became part of this ongoing conversation. And so I think in my early day, like if I could go back and like tell myself one thing, it would be like, allow the feedback to happen, like open it up and like,

invite more of that in because I think that would have moved me forward much faster than I did because I did a whole lot of hiding and a whole lot of like not marketing and like pivoting and whatever because of my fear around the feedback piece.

Shannon Mattern (01:06:23.208)

I think that's such a good place to wrap up this episode. And I think I'd also just be like, let's just always start thinking the best of everybody. you know, that just made me think of like,

Erica Nash (01:06:34.389)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:06:39.846)

the person on the other side of the hospitality I received at the co working space. It wasn't because they're like, it's my job to treat this person nice. It's like, they probably take a lot of pride in what they do and feel delighted by providing that level of hospitality to people, you know, and how about I just like think the best of every situation.

rather than like the self the knee jerk self protective thoughts that that come up. that's my thing is just like noticing those places and like, if we just thought the best of everybody, we wouldn't have to feel like we have to protect ourselves so much all the time, which is

will help us, you know, make this make it all like more, more fun. So that's all the time we have for this September 2025 income report. I'm sure there were more things that happened in September, but it flew by so fast. And yeah, any final thoughts, Erica, before we wrap it up?

Erica Nash (01:07:29.899)

Yeah.

Amazing.

Erica Nash (01:07:39.319)

Thank

Erica Nash (01:07:47.895)

I don't think so. That was, I think we covered it all. That was, that was fast and furious for this episode too.

Shannon Mattern (01:07:50.89)

I think we covered it all.

Shannon Mattern (01:07:57.156)

Awesome. Well, thank you all so much for listening and we'll see you back here next week. Bye everyone.