#140 – March 2025 Income Report

Shannon Mattern (00:01.608)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the profitable web designer podcast. Today's episode is my March, 2025 income report. And I'm joined by my sidekick, Erica Nash. She is our client success coordinator at the web designer Academy and my cohost for income reports. We tried it out last month and it was so fun that I'm like,

This is the only way I ever want to do income reports from now on. So Erica, welcome.

Erica Nash (00:32.462)

Hi, thank you.

Shannon Mattern (00:36.382)

So Erica has some questions prepared for me to take us through the March, 2025 income report. So yeah, Erica, let's just start at the top and we'll get into it and whatever comes up, comes up.

Erica Nash (00:59.118)

dive right in. All right, so the question that everybody's always curious about how much was the total inflow for March of 2025 and where did it come from?

Shannon Mattern (01:09.662)

Yeah. So the total inflow for March was $32,826.09 and $22,631 of that came from Simply Profitable Designer Summit ticket upgrades. So that's a free event that we put on, but we also give people the opportunity to upgrade their ticket. And we had $22,000.

$631 worth of ticket upgrades. And those were like $97 a pop for those. And then $10,195.09 of that is from Web Designer Academy, like payment plans, next level mastermind.

payment plans and our marketing momentum membership. So just recurring revenue payments from our students on those things. So yeah, that was our inflow in March.

Erica Nash (02:19.662)

amazing. So where did it go? What was the outflow?

Shannon Mattern (02:23.326)

The outflow was $31,429.13. And so of that, $6,948.10 were commissions back to our speakers for the Simply Profitable Designer Summit. So the way that that works is I invite like 30 of my friends to come and present. And if they weren't my friend before, they're for sure my friend after.

Erica Nash (02:51.214)

You

Shannon Mattern (02:52.752)

And they get an affiliate link to promote our summit to their audience. doing, they're speaking, they're doing a presentation, they're inviting their audience. They get an affiliate link and they get either 40 or 50 % commission depending on if they contributed a bonus to that, that upgraded ticket. so then I pay out 40 to 50 % of commissions, like of the ticket sales.

to people who are brought in, know, to attendees who were brought in by our speakers. And then $7,463.10 went to the previous owner of the summit because her name's Krista Miller. She founded the Simply Profitable Designer Summit nine years ago or whatever. I acquired it from her three years ago and our deal is that I pay her 50 %

of the profit after the event is done. you know, we had all of the ticket sales, all of our sponsorships, all of the things that made up like the total income for the event in what, last year we started getting sponsorship dollars coming in the door and then all the way through like all of the ticket sales.

Erica Nash (04:15.746)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (04:20.528)

minus all of our expenses. So paying for the support to like build out the summit site this year. So I didn't have to do it. Like there's a lot of expenses related to the summit, paying out those affiliate commissions, all of those things. And then after that, what's left, it was about $15,000 in profit. Then I split that with her. I...

So that $7,463 went right back out the door to Krista. And then our outflow for the Web Designer Academy, just our normal operating expenses, $17,017.93. And that includes my paycheck and your paycheck, plus all of our software tools, everything that we use to run the business.

insurance, taxes, payroll, bookkeeping, like all of that stuff. Plus we spend a lot on marketing. like podcast production, conversion rate optimization. how are we, and that's just, know, conversion rate optimization doesn't seem like, it seems like, I don't know. It's so much more than that strategy. It's basically strategy plus our rebrand project.

Erica Nash (05:39.938)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (05:44.543)

that you and I are working on, repaying my line of credit or just paying interest on the line of credit, like all of those little things. that's $17,017.93. So we added $1,396.96 to our reserve. So we basically broke even in March. Yeah.

Erica Nash (06:08.866)

Beautiful. So let's talk about some of the important things that in March. You talked about the summit, which is obviously a huge thing. We start preparing for that in November of the previous year, so it's big. And you talked about the rebrand. I know there's been other things going on. So what were some of the important things that happened in the month of March?

Shannon Mattern (06:34.076)

Yeah. So aside from the Simply Profitable Designer Summit, we did a web designer academy open enrollment promotion. So I think the summit was like March 17th through the 21st. And then on March 22nd, I invited like everybody to come to our Profitable Web Design Business roadmap training.

and that was the first time I ever like invited people to join the web designer Academy without an application. So that was a big thing that happened. just running the summit with help. That was a big thing that happened like more than, more than normal, right? More than last year. cause you, you always do a lot of, summit preparation, but like,

Erica Nash (07:20.174)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (07:31.889)

leading up to it, had like, like I paid for a lot more help, right? We moved our web designer Academy community to circle off of Facebook. I think that happened in March. I'm not entirely sure. It's all running together. But yeah, I think like the summit and the, the, the shift of like this test of

Erica Nash (07:44.488)

Mm-hmm. How it runs together.

Shannon Mattern (07:57.723)

Enrolling in the web designer Academy without an application or like the two biggest things. And then we did some like testing and just different things and kind of made, made some decisions around the web designer Academy that I had been going back and forth on for a long time, nailed some of those down. So yeah, that's kind of like the high level overview. So where do you want to start? Where do you want to dig into that?

Erica Nash (08:23.124)

Yeah, well, I just wanted to like, I know that you've talked about this some or at least I feel like you have on the podcast, but I want people to know like what a big deal it is that you got help on the summit and that you like are are like freeing yourself up for more help and asking for more help and like allowing yourself to accept that. And I don't know, maybe we even talk a little bit about

the next level domino and like that kind of stuff. Because that is the work. I was actually talking to my husband about this yesterday and about how just transformative the next level retreat was and like the work that we did there and how like he was even recognizing just like how I think about money differently and about investments differently and it doesn't quite.

take up quite so much of my emotional energy. And I think that that is an important piece of this conversation. And maybe we talk a little bit about that as well.

Shannon Mattern (09:36.303)

I totally agree with you that it is a huge part of this conversation. And so for those of you who maybe are new listeners, maybe you're coming, maybe this, you're coming from the Simply Profitable Designer Summit, having been introduced to this podcast for the first time. So hello, if that's you, welcome. Like we're thrilled to have you here. But we do a couple of different things.

here at the web designer academy. One of them is our core web designer academy program. And that is strategy, right? It's packaging strategy, pricing, sale. It's a lot of strategy. Yes, there's mindset stuff in there. Like what stops you from implementing the strategy? And you can go really far with a lot of the stuff in the web designer academy. And then we have what's called the next level mastermind because

What we know is that like the best way to describe it is like new levels, same devils, right? Like you're going to get to a point in your business. And I've gotten to a point in my business where, like the other way to say this is like how you do anything is how you do everything. So because the way my life is structured, I don't have children and I don't have a day job.

Erica Nash (10:41.964)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (11:03.678)

I have a whole lot of autonomy and control over how I run my day. And I have a lot of time. And because I have a lot of time, I can take on a lot of responsibility and a lot of work and a lot of tasks and a lot of things. And that's how I've been able to like grow my business. The way that I have is because I'm like, everybody get out of my way. If I want it done, it's going to get done. It's like,

When it's, you know, I just don't have like a whole lot of me not having time is like usually never an excuse for me. Like getting something done. might feel busy. I might feel overwhelmed, but it's always like going to get done. And so what we do in next level mastermind is figure out like, well, where do you get in your own way? In a way that's like very self protective.

like you wouldn't even see that it's a thing that's getting in your own way because it looks on the surface like, I don't know, like a good thing or a positive thing or something like that. like my drive could be seen as like a positive quality, but it's actually the thing that really like gets in the way of my next level. That's one way to look at it. There's many layers to this onion.

And what we do is we go through a process to figure out like, okay, where do you have your foot on the gas? And where do you have your foot on the brake at the same time? And for me, we uncovered that it is scary for me to ask for help. Not because I'm afraid somebody won't do it right, but because I would...

need to give feedback and that feels scary because I'm afraid of damaging my relationship with people if I tell them that I don't like something or I want something changed and therefore that might hurt their feelings and cause harm to our relationship. So it's safer for me to just do everything myself. So I know that was like a very long way to get to like that thing.

Shannon Mattern (13:25.512)

but it's like, on the surface it looks like you're so driven and like, you can get a lot done and you have all this time freedom, but on the flip side, it's like, because I'm afraid of losing relationships with people I care about. So therefore I would rather work really, really hard than say, I don't really like the way that design looks. Can we make some changes? And it seems so bananas, but that's the way we get in our own way.

So all of that to say, at our next level retreat in November, that was uncovered for me. Erica had her own next level that was uncovered for her. Feel free to chat about it if you want. But then we go through a process to deconstruct it and to create safety around the thing that we're most afraid of. And so I have had to go through a process to create safety around being able to give feedback so that I can ask for help.

because if I don't feel safe to give feedback, what I end up doing is just taking it over and taking it across the finish line. And that keeps me stuck exactly where I am overworking without capacity to grow. And I was like reading my income report from after the summit last year. And I was reading the transcript and I'm like, yep.

That's exactly what I noticed last year is that like I had asked for more help last year, but not enough. And by the end I was so exhausted and so tired. think I even got sick afterwards. I was maybe sick before, during and after. And it affected, it delayed a lot of all of me spending all my time there delayed a lot of our future, like a lot of our results last year.

Erica Nash (15:01.614)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (15:20.338)

so this year was totally different. I asked for help. paid for help. I gave feedback. Like I wasn't, I still worry that people aren't going to like me, but I also know I'm like approaching it with integrity. So I still like push myself to give it. and I did overwork a little bit.

There are places where I saw that I could have asked for more help that I've noted for next year. And the goal would be to like really remove myself from as much as possible, except the being there at the, at the event in 2026. So yeah, those are my thoughts on that, but just even asking for help has been huge. I don't think Erica.

If not for the next level mastermind retreat where I uncovered that domino, we wouldn't be doing this rebrand project.

Erica Nash (16:27.424)

Yeah, I could totally see that. I think, well, we've been having this retreat for, I think last year was our third year, is that right? And every year has been really powerful. I think, and I think I can speak for everyone in saying that, but personally for me, it has been really powerful. But there was something about last year's retreat.

Shannon Mattern (16:37.212)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Erica Nash (16:56.128)

I don't know exactly what it was, but I felt like it was truly like I literally came home a different person. And I don't know, there was just something really special about it. So I love that you were able to like so quickly implement like the transformation, if that makes sense. Like you were so quickly able to turn it around because that was in November.

We were just starting to prep for the summit. And then, I mean, when we come back in January, we are hitting the ground running. I mean, we're like pedal to the metal, just like going full force, getting ready for it. And so you had to have a plan on like how you were getting help. You had to already have help sort of enrolled at that point. So.

you were able to turn that around really quickly. And I think that that really speaks to the level of transformation that happened while we were there. So I love that.

Shannon Mattern (18:00.379)

I don't like, I wish I could be like, yeah, I know exactly what happens because I run this retreat. I facilitate it. Like I put this experience together and, and I should be able to like say, yeah, like this is exactly what, why it works. And I think I, it works, you know, it being like a really big shift out of old ways of.

operating an old self-protective mechanisms into really feeling safe, safer to take new actions. I think it is a blend of a lot of things that happen. And if you're interested in learning more about Next Level, please go check it out, webdesigneracademy.com forward slash next. And all the retreat details are there too.

I think at the time that this episode comes out, there still are a few days to get your application in to attend the, next level training that we're doing. and if you listen to this after you can still fill out the application, but, I think it is just this unique blend of there is a, there's a very intentional arc that I take all of us through.

that's designed to just really show you how powerful you are. But I don't know, we had hypnosis this year. I don't know if that was it. I don't know if it was just like, there's always magic from people in the room. I don't know if it's because there are so many people that have been there three years in a row, but there were people that walked in for the first time.

that year, like even late, because she couldn't get a flight, you know, and she came like halfway through the second day and still had the same impact. So yeah, it's a thing like if, and that's kind of, it's for people who...

Shannon Mattern (20:04.114)

I don't know, like I get in my own way. I know I get in my own way all the time. I look at these numbers, the 32, 286 and the 31, 429 and I'm like, I'm spending exactly how much I'm making. And while I love that I am adding to my reserves, but I'm like, we're breaking even, that's a next level problem. Like there is...

Erica Nash (20:30.102)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (20:32.082)

There is a world in which I get to make more than I spend. And I don't think it's a math problem. I think there is something happening in me that is preventing myself from like making more or, that I'm spending what all I'm like, what I'm bringing in. So I'm, I don't know what that looks like, but I'm super curious to explore that because

Why am I not allowing myself to add more to my reserve and then keep it there? Like what's going on there? I don't know the answer to that.

Erica Nash (21:10.454)

What a fascinating question to dig into though, that's so good.

Shannon Mattern (21:14.878)

So it's like not a problem and I'm, you know, I guess I should say, like I was just about to like catch myself and be like, I'm not complaining. And maybe that thought of I'm not complaining is a clue to what's going on here.

Erica Nash (21:29.175)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (21:30.642)

that I'm like, well, it's good enough, you know, but it's not where we wanna be. It's not like, I'm not in this really healthy, like cash position in the business that I would want to be in. you know, we're doing things. I'm opening up new markets. doing, I'm testing a lot of things. We'll talk about those in the April income report, April and May and going forward, I'm pulling a lot of different levers.

outside of web designer Academy to, explore that, there's something there and I don't know what it is yet.

Erica Nash (22:10.38)

yet. You'll figure it out though for sure.

Shannon Mattern (22:11.868)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (22:15.564)

And I also...

It's interesting that I'm going to talk a little bit about next level again, that this has been the theme of the conversation. But yesterday, I, for those, nobody probably knows this, but I used to be a teacher. so yesterday my husband is still a teacher and he was asking me, do you miss, like, is there anything you miss about being a teacher? my immediate answer was no. And he kind of laughed.

And he's like, that was really quick. And I had to back up and tell him, I loved being a teacher. But it took, you know, it took a lot from me. And I said, if, you know, like there are days with the kids that I miss, you know, we had some fun days and like laughing together and like inside jokes and stuff like that, like the community of the classroom can be really cool. And then I said, you know, if

anything else, maybe like just the community of being a teacher. And he kind of nodded his head and I was like, but I can't say that I necessarily miss that because I have like, I have a community of business owners. have a community of people that are just like incredible. And all of our conversations are about like, how do we, how do we make this

life better? How do we expand? How do we grow personally? How do we break past these things that are like standing in our way? It's all about like personal development, professional development, and just like, like really just like love for each other. And so that community is so powerful. And I think that that is also like you talked about, you know, I don't know if it was, you know, that like the things that

Erica Nash (24:11.958)

we went through like the, you the arc that you take us through, if it was the people, if it was the hypnosis, I think it was a combination of everything. But I think the people, like it could not happen. Those transformations could not happen without the people. And it's just like so truly so beautiful. And I think that like, like you just talking about those things like

we have to surround ourselves with people who get it to help us like get to that next level and get out of our way and help us identify those things and like that yet piece comes along with the input of other people.

Shannon Mattern (24:55.324)

Yeah, because I'm not going to be able to see it. Like someone else is going to show me what that is. I just have to say, hey, I think I'm getting in my way in this way. And then when I'm in a room of trusted people, someone will be like, you said something really interesting that made me think of when you said that you think that you're spending as much as you're making and you don't know why. And then you just said something that tied that back together for me and reflect that back to me so that I could see what I can't see.

Erica Nash (24:57.804)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (25:10.274)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (25:22.044)

I think this is the perfect segue though, when you're talking about community to talk about like this whole drama I had in my mind about like, is the web designer academy, like this whole like removing the application. I was playing around with some different ideas about like the structure of the program. I think like this community conversation is the perfect segue to kind of talk about some of those decisions.

Erica Nash (25:36.43)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (25:48.899)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (25:50.751)

So one of the things that we have been wanting to do is take down a lot of the walls and barriers and deconstruct the American Ninja Warrior obstacle course of a customer journey that I had intentionally and unintentionally built over the years, intentionally in terms of just following strategies that I've learned, but unintentionally in terms of self-protection.

Erica Nash (26:02.592)

you

Shannon Mattern (26:19.288)

And one of those kind of things was the application, the application process. so, you know, for the past five years, in order to join the web designer academy application or web designer academy, the very first step is to fill out an application telling us more about you, about your business. And then I would review your application, review.

Like your goals and your website and everything. just like do a double check and make sure like, yes, your business is in the right place for you to successfully apply our strategies. And there were lots of reasons for that. One, I don't want you to join a program that's not right for you, but two, it's also, it, care a lot about our community and

like it always felt like a way to like create safety within the community for people to be very vulnerable. Um, when it's like I've vetted every person that's in the room in terms of, um, in terms of like, no one's too new or too advanced. A lot of people think like, I'm going to be, I'm going to ask a dumb question and feel stupid. And then they, they won't like,

be fully accepted or there's just a like, I be fully accepted by this community? And so when I can, like, I don't know, it's a weird thing. I just know, I don't know how to describe it any other way. I just know, based on the words people, it's not about like what their website looks like or anything like that. It's about what they say in that application.

Erica Nash (27:57.774)

You

Shannon Mattern (28:11.228)

that I know if they are going to be.

not even successful in our program, but like, I look at that and I'm like, in six months, they are going to be like the kindest person to the version of them that came in, that comes in six months after them. I don't know how I know, but that's kind of like the thing that I'm looking for, inadvertently. And it was scary to get rid of that.

But also I was like, I trust myself to say the right words in our messaging to help people understand if this is the right place for them or not. I don't need to be the one at the gate checking to see if you're in checking you out to see if you can come in. So we took the application away.

Erica Nash (29:10.776)

Yeah, and I know that that was a big scary move. And I think, and I think, you you just said it, like it really does come down to like just trusting yourself, just trusting like you and who you are and the people that you attract. Very rarely do we get people that would not be like,

personality fit, right? Like just because of the nature of like you just attract amazing people. And I think there's also a piece in there of like, and maybe this kind of goes back to your domino, I don't know. But I think maybe there's even a piece about like

if there was a person that was let in that, I don't know, caused disruption, was unkind, was like, you know, didn't really follow sort of our social guidelines and norms that we sort of have in place. Trusting yourself that you would be able to tell them, like, either, like, you know, this is how we do things and or like, you gotta go. I don't know.

Shannon Mattern (30:30.206)

I coach people on holding boundaries all day, every day. I also teach them how to create structure that makes it easier for them to hold boundaries. I think the application has served its purpose in terms of creating safety for me to hold boundaries. And now I feel like I absolutely could trust myself to hold a boundary, but like the...

Erica Nash (30:47.534)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (30:57.618)

I can't even imagine and I should, I can't imagine a world in which like someone comes in like injustice, like I don't know. I don't know what that would even look like. And so we kept the same like form on our website with the same questions as a tool for people to use to ask

Erica Nash (31:08.396)

Yeah, I agree.

Shannon Mattern (31:27.578)

Instead of it, like you have to fill this out to come in the door. It's like, here's who we're a great fit for. And if you're not at this place in your business yet, we're not the right fit for you yet. But if you if all of this sounds like you and you're still like, I don't know, I'm scared, then fill out this form. And I will review everything and I'll tell you like, hey, based on what you said, I think you'd be a great fit or based on what you said, I actually think

that you wouldn't be a great fit, not because your personality sucks or whatever, but because like, I wouldn't want someone to come in who's not ready to come in. And so that worked out actually really great. So we had, host normally I'd be like, fill out the application to even come to the training where I'm talking to you about our strategies this time.

Erica Nash (32:10.732)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (32:26.078)

Open door, I think we had over 250 people registered to attend that training, which normally I'm only talking to, I don't know, 40 or 50 accepted applicants at that training. And then we had basically the exact same number of people join. So we had six people join our program, 250 registered.

I don't remember how many attended live and then ultimately six people ended up joining. And that's the same number of people that would join if I had personally reviewed 40 applications, which that's pretty time intensive, you know, with all of the other things. And so I'm like, that was a win. So if you look at it, like the conversion percentage of number of attendees is lower, but

the outcomes the same and I got more, I had more time to like do other things. I'm like, what a huge win. We called in the most amazing people. Like they're incredible. So that was a win, but I also totally had like a moment because almost all of them came in on the final day.

Erica Nash (33:33.164)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (33:47.327)

And so I was just like, I think this experience, I don't think this worked. Like I had severe doubt. I was just like, and I kind of think back on it. I'm like, I had no concept of who was interested because I didn't have enough. I didn't have the applications to give me any sense of who was there or what their business was like. So it was almost like I didn't have my map or something. And I felt a little unmoored.

Erica Nash (33:47.342)

You

Erica Nash (34:14.282)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (34:17.15)

and for a short period of time, my mind went where it always goes. It's all going to fall apart. Nothing's going to work. This is the end. This is it. This is the time. No one's going to join. And then Erica wisely counseled me. So I appreciate that. And you can share your, your, you know, perspective on that. But then I woke up the next day to like,

five people, five more people. And I was like, okay, I panicked too soon. Like stay the course, see it through, but it was just, it was interesting. So yeah, I'm curious to hear your side of the story.

Erica Nash (34:47.438)

you

Erica Nash (35:02.926)

Yeah, I, it's funny because I, definitely have moments like I go, I go back and forth. And so, um, you know, I, I was also thinking like, about taking away the application, how that means, oh, you can't really follow up with anyone because you don't have their name in the first place. And how sure, sure you could.

Shannon Mattern (35:21.608)

Nope.

Shannon Mattern (35:27.375)

up with alt 250.

Erica Nash (35:31.406)

But I was just thinking about how that added kind of another level of like uncertainty almost. And yeah, you know, I get in my head when things happen like that as well. Like, you know, I care about this company and this community and you, and I love this job. And so, you know, all of that really matters to me. And...

Shannon Mattern (35:34.898)

you

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (35:58.528)

Yeah, so I am a Christian and so I have to lean into my faith really hard whenever things like that happen in moments where I'm like, I don't know, like is this it? Like have we like, it's been a good run and like that's just the end. Truly though, deep down, that's not, like I'm like, I know that's not true, but you know, there's a sort of that surface level anxiety that like,

Shannon Mattern (36:12.19)

you

Erica Nash (36:27.758)

kind of sticks around whenever that happens. And so, yeah, you know, on that day, you were like, yeah, full transparency. Like, I don't know, like, we're gonna see. I was just like, you know, I, well, and I told Shannon, and I've told Shannon for this three years, like, I pray for Shannon and I and this community.

Shannon Mattern (36:28.605)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (36:57.166)

and like all of our students every day. That is just part of my routine and it's just really important to me. I wanna make sure that like I am doing what I need to do in order to serve this community really well. And so, you know, I pray for wisdom and counsel and just God's guidance and all of that stuff. And yeah, in that moment, you you were...

you know, kind of just like in that state. I was feeling like in that state and I told Shannon, Shannon, I don't want to make this weird, but like, do you mind if I pray? And she was like, my gosh, yes. And what I need you to know is that I don't do that. I don't just do that. Like I don't ask people and like maybe I should do that more often. And so my heart was pounding so hard.

My heart was pounding so hard. I was like so nervous. But I felt so, I felt so strongly that like, I don't know, that was just going to like bring us back down. And like, and you know, I fully believe that like, you know, God hears my prayers and he answers those prayers. And like, I don't believe like he's a genie that I can just like, you know, ask him for like new students and we'll get new students. But I fully believe that.

you know, he heard my prayers and heard like our desperation and and provided for that. And so, yeah, I just appreciate that you were like, yeah, that's not weird at all because it could have been, it might have been a little weird.

Shannon Mattern (38:41.054)

Well, I mean, you and I have talked about this and I don't know if I've talked about this on the podcast, but like I wasn't raised with any kind of religion. You know, my family didn't go to church. I guess that's what you call like secular. I so I don't have a lot of experience in it, but I have a lot of respect for people that do like my husband goes to church. Well, he his family does. And so like

I just can't see a world in which I'd be like, no, you can't do that. Like I have respect for it, even if it's not my like practice. know, so why wouldn't I be okay with whatever tools you use, your faith being one of those to like,

Erica Nash (39:22.51)

Thanks

Shannon Mattern (39:41.055)

allow you to express whatever you needed to express and support me with that. So that's just my take on it. And I so appreciated it because it really just, it helped me shift out of the vibe that I was feeling, which was awesome because we were doing an open house later that day. So one of the things that I realized is like, okay,

Erica Nash (40:02.766)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (40:08.99)

What I'm missing from the application process is a conversation with people who are interested. How can I create a very low pressure way to have a conversation with people who are interested and just like

call them a little bit forward and a little bit forward and like, let me help you make this decision one way or another. And then we came up with, I came up with like, by the way, I'm doing an open house. By the way, everybody, like I'm inviting anybody who wants to come to our live strategy call to come. They have to fill out the application. Quote, it's not an application. They have to fill out this form and I have to make sure that they're qualified to attend and I need to explicitly invite them.

Erica Nash (40:40.074)

you

Shannon Mattern (40:59.806)

and give them the link because I do care so much about that community, keeping it safe, that I'm not just gonna allow anyone to come off the street and be in the room where people are talking about like vulnerable business stuff, like what we talk about in there. So we, I don't know how many people came.

but I think we had two people come and then they ended up joining. And then we had like two more join overnight that like didn't come to the open house. But I was just like, okay. Like I feel like now I have all of the pieces and now I'm doing like I'm letting people come to our live strategy calls if they fill out that form and qualify like every.

week. So we're hosting this open house every week and we actually have another person coming. It's today's Tuesday when we're recording this, we have another person coming to our open house today. So it's a opportunity for people to like really take a step in and see what it's really like on the inside before committing. And I think that that was like a really cool thing that kind of came out of

Erica Nash (42:07.191)

soon.

Shannon Mattern (42:23.196)

the quiet and the uncertainty and that actually who is interested in all of this is like, I love this idea. It's so much fun. It's so cool to like introduce them to all the incredible people that are in there while they're considering it. So much better than an application with the training and all of this like one-on-one stuff. They get to experience the community. I love that part. And I just think it's really fun. So it's like in

Erica Nash (42:25.432)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (42:53.19)

I'm so glad that it happened that way because I don't know that that would have ever occurred to me to just make it easy. just invite people to the thing you're already doing every week anyway, and let them see for themselves if this is what they want to do or not. so yeah, that's a thing. And if you're listening to this and you're like, I want to do that, you can go to the web designer Academy program page on our website and you can.

Erica Nash (43:03.49)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (43:10.284)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (43:23.112)

fill out the form and come to our next open house. So that was really cool. And the other thing that I wanted to talk about was like, I had this wavering moment of being like, people don't want to commit to stuff right now. So should I just make the web designer academy month to month instead of a one year program? And I had like talked myself into this. I'm like,

Yeah, everything's uncertain right now. Nobody knows what the world's going to look like in 12 months. I think the pandemic shook all of us and we can't predict the future. And therefore that's why people aren't saying yes to the web designer academy because they're afraid to commit to something in the future because they don't know what the future is going to look like. And I think I had you enrolled in this idea. I think I had.

Erica Nash (44:17.832)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (44:19.934)

We are conversion rate person enrolled in this idea. And then I was talking to Alicia St. Germain, who is my business and mindset coach. And she was just like, absolutely not. Don't stay like the whole point is to like, stand for people to create the commitment to the vision of what they really want. And I was like,

she's right. By me, getting enrolled in their uncertainty or co-signing everyone's uncertainty is me being like, yep, just dip out whenever it gets uncomfortable instead of, you're here, let's actually spend time for a whole year of the life cycle of your business where something weird is going to happen with the economy, something weird is going to happen with the world.

something weird is gonna happen with your life and things are also gonna go really well and let's learn how to run a business around all of that instead of just being like, I'm scared I'm leaving because it's a monthly membership. So.

Erica Nash (45:38.51)

That's so good. That like gave me chills. I love the way that you said like that you signed, how did you say it? You signed on with everybody else's uncertainty. did you? It co-signing. Yeah, like that's such a good way to say it because it's so easy to get wrapped up in like, my gosh, my social media feed. Some days I like just have to put it down because it is

Shannon Mattern (45:52.466)

I'm not going to co-sign with everybody else's uncertainty.

Erica Nash (46:09.228)

just drenched in like the sky is falling and I'm like I cannot not today but exactly and it's so easy to to find yourself so wrapped up into that and to like believe every single word you hear because it sounds really solid it sounds like really good information

Shannon Mattern (46:12.37)

The sky is falling.

But not today, but tomorrow, it's not falling anymore, but now it's falling again.

Erica Nash (46:36.81)

And again, and I will like shout this from the rooftops. I think that's why it's so, so, so important to have a community of people around you who will call that out because otherwise you get just so lost in it.

Shannon Mattern (46:48.732)

Yeah, we actually had a conversation on our global live strategy call this morning. So we do like a 7 a.m. Eastern call for people who are in the UK and Australia. So it's like waking hours for them. We had such a good call this morning about just this same thing about like, I think the question ultimately ended up being, should I just quit my business and go be a dog walker?

but the, my take on this is that there will always be some flavor of some kind of, some uncertainty going on. and like, we think that we can, that when like things look predictable and certain that

somehow we're in control of it and that it couldn't all just change on a dime tomorrow. Like it always could, whether all of whatever is happening now was going on or not, it could always change in an instant tomorrow. And so it's all about building certainty with yourself, trusting yourself, building resilience, deciding where you want to pay your attention.

That was the thing that I was talking about this morning. I'm like, we all know how the internet works, right? And I'm like, you know, our attention is monetized, whether it's being monetized with positive information or negative information. And where do I want to pay with my attention? I don't want to pay scrolling a news site, scrolling past every ad that's being like cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching every time I'm just like locked in on

whatever doom and gloom news is going on. I used to doom scroll back with COVID and I had to be like, wait, somebody's making money off my doom scrolling. And that's where I'm just like, this is not how I want to, I don't wanna contribute to this. I want to have a healthy amount of knowledge of what's happening in the world, but not to the point where I'm paralyzed, it's crippling. It's taking me away from

Shannon Mattern (49:12.444)

my contribution and what I'm here to create. And so that's a decision that we make. And I feel like my no good, very bad year helped me create the resilience to be able to help our students through what's going on now with how they're feeling about their business, how their clients are feeling about.

moving forward with projects and all of this stuff and like really just like helping us cultivate, like you never could control what was going on in the world. Now you're just being seen that you like being shown that you can't control it, like in your face 24 seven, you know, and that's happened to us before and it's happening again. You can control how you think about it, how you.

Erica Nash (49:57.343)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (50:06.076)

behave how you respond to it, where you put your time and attention. And I'm gonna put my time and attention into my vision, goals and future all day long and not let it leak out into doom scrolling. And the cynic in me goes even further to line other people's pockets with my attention that they're making money off of literally with every ad impression that

Erica Nash (50:26.766)

you

Erica Nash (50:31.352)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (50:34.212)

we scroll past or swipe past. And so that's where I'm at. And I said it way more eloquently this morning because I had a lot of coffee, but we have to put ourselves in spaces that lift us up and help us stay focused on our vision and navigate the obstacles. And what's happening right now is an obstacle. It's not like that. doesn't exist. It's like,

Erica Nash (50:43.438)

you

Erica Nash (50:49.452)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (51:01.234)

Who do I need to become and what do I need to learn to navigate this obstacle? And this obstacle might be clients are making longer decisions. People are afraid and not saying, yes, who do I need to become to navigate those obstacles and still build the life that I want? And that's what building resilience is all about. And that's why I'm like, it has to be a one-year program because if everybody was dipping out and giving up on their dreams and I was just like, yeah, cool, go ahead.

I don't believe that you could do it either. How about you just leave? It's like, no, I believe that you can do it.

Erica Nash (51:37.261)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (51:38.716)

but maybe we need to pivot or change or do something. So we decided to keep it a one year program because of all of that. So go ahead.

Erica Nash (51:42.414)

No, that's...

Well, and that's so good and it brings to mind like the whole like teach a man to fish thing. Like I think the most valuable thing we can do is teach people how to continue to stay the course when everyone else is saying the sky is falling. Like how do you continue to reach out to people and make connections and market and etc etc etc all the things that we need to do in order to

run a business. I think that's just literally the most valuable thing that we could do for them because they're going to take that skill. Once they decide to graduate from Web Designer Academy or Next Level or whatever, they're going to be able to take that skill with them and continue to build it in whatever season of life they are going to be in. If it feels like the sky is falling in a political way or in a personal way or whatever that looks like for them.

Shannon Mattern (52:21.277)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (52:45.128)

Yeah. I just think about, you know, the, you can, you could just like quit or be like, nobody's buying anything right now. So I'm just going to do nothing also. And then when inevitably the tide turns, because eventually it will, it has to, it always has. And you know, then you're that much, that much farther behind.

And we can never control what another human does, whether there's political turmoil or financial turmoil, we can never, it doesn't matter. We can never control what another human does, but we can always control what we do. And, you know, I just feel like there's like, why would you give up on your dream? Because of what other people say is happening in the world. I'm like, tell me I can't do it and watch me.

Like that's just like, might get out of my way. don't, but like, not that I'm like, I don't believe this is happening. Of course it's happening, but I'm like, I believe there's a way through and not just waiting for it to change. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like put a brick wall in front of me. See what happens.

Erica Nash (53:55.299)

Yeah.

Yeah, it doesn't have to be just like this brick wall. Yeah, I love it.

Erica Nash (54:09.102)

Like Wile E. Coyote shaped hole. There's a Shannon shaped hole in the wall.

Shannon Mattern (54:12.894)

Right. Kool-Aid

Yeah. So we did, we made that decision. and then I was like, I think WGA rebrand had a big month in April, but I don't know because the time is weird. We're recording this on April 15th. and I've already gotten to, I'll talk more about that in my April income report, the impact that the new brand has had, but did we roll out the rebrand in March to the WGA fam?

Erica Nash (54:51.022)

I actually think it was like, I think you and I finished on like the last day of May. I mean, of March, of May, listen, of March. And maybe we announced it like April 1st. I can't remember, but it was close.

Shannon Mattern (55:06.534)

Yeah. So in addition to a summit and open enrollment for the web designer academy, we also are doing a brand refresh of the web designer academy. We're rebranding in public. So one of the things that I didn't want to do is like hold everything back and then flip a switch and then launch this whole new thing. I'm just like, that sounds horrible.

Erica Nash (55:14.478)

We've been busy.

Erica Nash (55:33.87)

Hey

Shannon Mattern (55:36.223)

Let's roll it out piece by piece. Maybe by the time you're listening to this podcast, the cover art on this podcast is different. Maybe you've seen a presentation of mine with new branding. Maybe a landing page or a sales page has had updated branding. We're really rolling it out in pieces. But what did we finish in March? What was the?

What was the finish for the finishing touches that we, yeah.

Erica Nash (56:06.862)

In March, it was like we had the full brand kit was complete. So yeah, yeah, everything had been.

Shannon Mattern (56:13.438)

So logos, fonts, colors. Was March when you had to help me learn how to communicate what I meant? So this kind of ties this episode back full circle because in learning that it's safe to give feedback, I start becoming more like less emotionally.

Erica Nash (56:22.254)

so...

Shannon Mattern (56:41.31)

or not emotionally. My nervous system was less triggered to give feedback. And then I was able to start to feel safe to say, this doesn't vibe with me. This feels too scary. This feels too playful. This feels whatever. But because I am so behind on learning to use my feedback words, we had a translation.

Erica Nash (57:06.432)

you

Shannon Mattern (57:11.038)

problem, because I'm like, and I think I use like the princess bride meme, like, I do not think it means what you think it means. Like I'm saying things that Erica's translating into designs. And she's like, Shannon, I don't think that word means like what you think it means. And I'm like, probably not. This is a problem my husband and I also have where I try to like verbally describe something visually. And he is just like.

Erica Nash (57:26.326)

you

Shannon Mattern (57:40.471)

I don't understand what you're saying. So it's absolutely a me problem. I'm not a visual person. But that's kind of, I think that that was like almost the big thing that happened in March, like for the rebrand is like getting really dialed in on like Shannon says this and she means this.

Erica Nash (58:02.574)

Yeah, yeah, it was. And I don't want you to feel like that is like a like just a you thing. Like there are clients who just don't like that's part of the reason why they come to me because they're like, I'm not a visual person. Like I'm not a design person. I can't do this on my own. And so it does require a little bit more visual support and that's totally OK or communication support or whatever. You know, like the goal is to

handle that in a way that doesn't make the other person feel like they've done something wrong or stupid or whatever other, you know, problems they want to tie to that because it's not a it's not a problem. It's just part of the process. so yeah, March did have some of the like, let's continue to refine our communication and continue to like step our way through because that that is one of the things

I didn't necessarily say this to you, but one of the things that I decided pretty quickly after that initial round of feedback, when I sent you a form to get like, okay, we just need to like, I just need to understand how you describe things that you see. And so I had you fill out this form and I say fill out this form, I use that term lightly, because it was just like multiple choice and you could type if you wanted.

And it was fascinating to see like some of the ways that you like, I will forever laugh. There was this font and you were like, it looks like it plays football. Like it's going to tackle you. And I don't remember, I don't remember what it was called, but, but I was like, I could absolutely see that. So was really, really valuable to like take you through that process because then I was like,

Shannon Mattern (59:53.554)

Ha ha ha.

Erica Nash (59:55.374)

Okay, like I get it now. Like I could see what she's seeing. And then what I decided after that was like, okay, I'm going to take this much more slowly and much more visually. Like rather than saying, okay, we can do this or this. I'm going to say, okay, I want you to look at this or this and then choose between the two or give me feedback so that we can go in a different direction. And I think that was the thing that ended up allowing us to move.

the way that we did and complete the brand by the end of May. I mean, end of, I keep saying May, by the end of March. So that we can move right into our design support in April, which obviously we'll talk about in the April podcast. But I think that's where you're really seeing like the transformation happening. So that's exciting.

Shannon Mattern (01:00:49.19)

I so appreciate the whole additional visual support. And I think that it's really the way you approach that helped me understand something about some of the challenges our web designer academy students have with like pricing and services. And I know that that might sound weird, but the way that you approached

how to lead me through this branding project. And you're like, it's very like one of our favorite things to say at the Web Designer Academy, the sky is blue. The sky is blue that some people require additional visual support. And that you gave me that label instead of difficult client is like, my goodness, but I can see a world in which

Erica Nash (01:01:32.386)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (01:01:40.942)

Mm.

Shannon Mattern (01:01:47.111)

someone that I could have like, that's my worst fear, right? Is being labeled a difficult client, but I could see where that situation without the tools that you had to lead me through that could leave the person in your position feeling really, like over, like, don't know, overwhelmed or like, they're not like, they're not doing a good job.

Like maybe they're not good at what they're doing because they're not like hitting the mark. And it wasn't that you weren't hitting the mark. It's like, I understood that like the words I'm saying aren't like, aren't translating. And so I was coaching someone this morning where she's like, I really love doing branding, but I hate doing it with clients. And I'm like, Oh, you're probably missing a process that allows you to

Erica Nash (01:02:16.142)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (01:02:44.644)

work through feedback with a client in a way that makes them feel, makes you feel really safe as the designer to receive the feedback because you're guiding that person through a feedback process that's helping them translate what they're thinking and feeling into words or vice versa. And so I feel like people under charge over deliver like, it's

Erica Nash (01:03:06.059)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (01:03:14.138)

truly could be you just need a tool to help you navigate this situation with clients and you don't have to not offer branding or if I charge more for that, they're gonna want even more and this process is already difficult. So super, super valuable.

Erica Nash (01:03:30.38)

Yeah. Yeah. And like going back to the next level domino. So my next level domino is making decisions without having all of the information. So I am a person who just I just like to have all of the information. Sometimes this is a really, really valuable skill and like need. Sometimes a lot of times it really holds me back in this specific situation, though. It's one of those things that allows me to work better with clients.

because I am able to think ahead in terms of like these, I can foresee that these might be some of the problems that pop up. And so I'm able to create a process for when that happens, we're going to do X, Y, Z. And yes, I do that for clients, but I do that for myself because I need to be able to have that process to know if they come back and they have feedback for me, I need to feel safe. I need to feel like

because I put my heart and soul in those designs. And so I need to feel like, okay, it hasn't like nothing's wrong with me personally. And I know that that's not what the clients mean, right? But like, that's just kind of like a, like gut reaction. But when I'm able to say, okay, no, if they come back like that, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna have these steps. We have this tool. We're gonna go through this specific process. It makes it so much easier and so much more.

the sky is blue because it's just like, okay, that's cool. Here are the next steps that we're gonna go through. And then it like really just removes a lot of the tension from that entire process. And I don't have to spend as much mental energy on why I wasn't good enough.

Shannon Mattern (01:05:14.462)

Right, exactly. Oh my gosh. So good. So I think that kind of brings this conversation full circle. And I am going to plant a little bit of a seed here because Erica is going to be teaching that process inside of the Web Designer Academy. And it's just going to be another tool that's going to make projects go faster and give you more confidence.

Erica Nash (01:05:23.148)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (01:05:32.888)

Yep.

Shannon Mattern (01:05:44.57)

All of that like just supports you charging profitably and sustainably for what you're doing. So, if that's something that you're like, I think I might want that then check out our program. You know, we're always open for enrollment. You can come to an open house. You can meet both of us, meet our students and decide if you want, an amazing community around you for an entire year life cycle.

of your business to help you, you know, just create the business and life that you really want. truly, I'm always striving for like, not more like, but more impact and everything, but also like, I live my dream life every single day. I truly do. And I want that for everybody else. So, you know, there's always something I'm working on, but if it all stopped,

Erica Nash (01:06:30.99)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (01:06:45.47)

I mean, I'm just like, look around, like, this is amazing. So yeah.

Erica Nash (01:06:50.444)

Yeah, yes, come join us.

Shannon Mattern (01:06:54.802)

So good. All right, well, that's it for our March 2025 income report. Thank you all so much for listening and we'll see you back here next week.