#184 – Answer Engine Optimization: Your Next Revenue Stream As a Web Designer

Shannon Mattern (00:01.998)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the profitable web designer. And today I am joined by Evgenia Gigi Dvarashvili. I call her Gigi. She's a conversion led designer and business educator who helps creatives build profitable businesses through marketing, positioning and sales. And I'm so glad to have you back on the show. This is your second time on the profitable web designer podcast. It's been a couple of years, so welcome back.

Gigi From One6Creative (00:31.975)

Thank you so much for having me back. I'm excited and I have to applaud you for even trying to pronounce my full name. Not every host does this, I have to say.

Shannon Mattern (00:40.846)

Well, we've been in many events together, summits together. I hope I got it close to right, but I've heard you say it so many times. yeah. So yeah, the reason that we're having this interview today is because I reached out to you to speak at our 10th annual Simply Profitable Designer Summit, which is coming up soon at the time of this recording.

Gigi From One6Creative (00:54.245)

Bit of a tongue twister, I agree.

Shannon Mattern (01:11.134)

And we realized how long it has been since we last actually talked and connected and talked about, you know, what's going on in the design space. And I think, I think the last time we talked, we were really talking about just like AI tools, even revolutionizing design operations for us as designers, but even since then, so much has changed. So, before we get into all of that though,

I would love for you to tell our listeners a little bit more about you and what you do and then we can dive into like all of the juicy changes that have been happening.

Gigi From One6Creative (01:49.175)

Absolutely. Again, thank you so much for having me and for the fab intro you started with already. I am Gigi. I am the founder of One6 Creative, which is a brand and web design agency. been running it. It's going to be 10 years on February 16th.

still here, still standing strong, you know, a little bit wobbly here and there, but who isn't right now, really trying to stand on our two legs. But yeah, I've been running this business for 10 years now, and very grateful for the opportunity to run my own gig. At the same time, I also have a business academy for designers. And that's what I love about the community. I think last time we talked about this a lot is that

Shannon Mattern (02:14.264)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (02:34.407)

You know, we do the same thing. We teach business skills to fellow designers, but at the same time, we're here sharing value with the community and inviting each other and supporting each other, which I absolutely love. So I started teaching fellow designers back in 2021. My background is actually in business and marketing, hence why, you when I started my design business, I started it as a business owner and not a designer.

Shannon Mattern (02:40.93)

Mm-hmm.

Gigi From One6Creative (03:04.371)

And I guess the business skills that I acquired throughout my career in corporate helped me get on my feet a little bit faster. But now, and I'm sure a lot of people will feel the same, is that now with AI, with everything we're going to talk about today, it seems like the pace is like 100x. That you need to move, learn, and do things so much faster.

And I'll be honest, it freaked me out at the beginning, like I'm sure many people, but especially over the last year, was like, actually, you know, I'm okay with where this is potentially going. I can see the benefits of what is happening. I can see how I can help my clients better. And in fact, I...

I talk about myself as a conversion led designer because conversions is one of the primary things that we help our clients. So especially over the last, I would say five years, I've worked primarily with personal brands, with coaches, with online academies where we could really track the results of the work we do together. And so I position myself as a conversion led designer and now with AI and especially with AO, which is what we're going to talk about as well.

those conversions are becoming so much more important also because the way that sites especially converts in today's business, in today's landscape is very, very different than what was just during traditional SEO times.

Shannon Mattern (04:42.209)

Yeah, I'm really excited to dig into all of this with you. And I've just noticed my own behavior changing in terms of how I, as just a consumer living my life, am interacting with search and AI tools and things like that. that's why the Simply Profitable Designer Summit typically has been focused on

business strategies, marketing, getting more clients, all of those things. And we've talked about those things for nine years and those things are all still very important. But I think what I was seeing, and I think you touched on this really brilliantly is like, there has been a huge shift that has come at us very quickly. And what I'm hearing is like, from designers is like, where do I fit in?

Am I still relevant anymore? Are my skills even valuable anymore? Where am I going to be in three to five years? Is what I'm going to do be replaced? And that was at the beginning, right? When it's like, anybody can just use AI to like build and create and write and get a plan for whatever they want. The shift that I'm hearing now is like, I'm not worried about

Like, I'm worried about like our website's gonna become obsolete. Like are people even like going to like go there as a source of information or a transaction or things like that. And so.

I truly believe that like there is a place for us in this ecosystem, but it gets to evolve. And you said, you said I positioned myself as a conversion led designer. And I think what you're speaking to is like the opportunity now is to stay relevant is for us to not only see where the website is now fitting in into the customer journey. might be different than it used to.

Shannon Mattern (06:54.305)

but also reposition ourselves and how we serve and support our clients and what we're doing and really start talking about it in a completely different way. So.

Gigi From One6Creative (07:07.591)

So, I mean, I think the idea that a designer should be more than a designer has always been there. know, when I started 10 years ago, I learned about, you shouldn't just design a brand because I started as a brand designer. I didn't even touch websites because I had no idea where to start. But even back then in 2016, and when I was starting, one of the first courses that I purchased was actually teaching me

Shannon Mattern (07:15.266)

Mm-hmm.

Gigi From One6Creative (07:33.255)

about brand strategy and how you should be more than just a brand designer, you should be a brand strategist. So it's not anything new that we cannot, we do not have the, we cannot just be designers anymore, just visual designers. That's just not enough. It wasn't enough back then to stand out and especially it's not enough now. Now that there are tools that can design faster, there are tools that our clients can use to prototype faster.

Yes, maybe they cannot design to the level of perfection to launch, but design on its own isn't enough anymore. And I know for some of you that might be, it might hurt to hear, it might suck to hear. I get it because you're all talented. You're all really good at your craft. But that's what I mean by we have to be more.

And I feel like now when I work with clients, they lean in more into that strategic part of my work than just design. I have a lot of clients who are on a retainer after we launched their website and retainers, post-launch retainers were always a big part of passive income for me, passive revenue. But now I see more and more clients actually

wanting it and asking for it because they want that leadership. How did my client say it? I had a yearly strategy call as part of my retainer and I told her that I am pivoting a little bit, I'm repositioning a little bit and she was like, wait, but you're not stopping what you're doing right now, right? You're gonna continue working on website. I'm like, yes, I will. so we're gonna continue these strategy calls. I'm like, absolutely.

And she told me, because I really need that thought leadership piece. Like I love that. And they value that. So I think that's the biggest shift that, you know, if you haven't done that yet is to lean into that thought leadership, into that strategic thinking. And we'll talk exactly about, you know, what are the things that we need to pay attention more as web designers. But I feel like this is the biggest shift. I don't think that we need to worry about AI completely replacing us.

Gigi From One6Creative (09:52.871)

I don't think that's possible because our clients, they know what they want. They're much savvier and more knowledgeable in terms of what is it that they want, but they don't have maybe the skills or the time or the expertise to actually execute on that. And that's when you come in as a human to actually help them with that.

Shannon Mattern (10:14.463)

I love that so much. I think, you know, I think what I see is designers and web designers just diminishing the strategy that they bring and not valuing it as much as they value the design skill. And I think what I hear you saying is like, no, like the value is in the strategy. It always has been, but now more than ever.

you get to just believe that you know what you know, that you're good at what you do, and that you can translate a client's needs into something that's going to be effective for them. And you get to like really claim that identity that's like always there and just believe that you can lead your clients through. Cause that's the biggest thing is like, the imposter syndrome, the confidence, the this. And I'm like,

you got to step up and claim the brilliance that you bring to every project. Stop hiding behind the designs. You're brilliant. You know what you're doing. Let's lead with that. So I love that you are really calling people forward to just claim all of what they do for their clients and not just this one little piece that's the skill. So can you tell?

I want to talk about your past 10 years and you're telling your clients, I'm shifting my positioning a little bit and here's what I'm doing. What are you shifting to now and why?

Gigi From One6Creative (11:52.327)

This shift is not it's not a massive shift for my clients I think it's me being a little bit more vocal about who I want to work with something I have realized with the clients that I Work with is that they tend to hide behind their business a little bit too much and most of the clients I Love I would say not all of the clients have worked with obviously over the past 10 years. I've never really focused on a particular

Shannon Mattern (12:02.573)

Mm.

Shannon Mattern (12:12.375)

Bye.

Gigi From One6Creative (12:21.143)

niche. In fact, my three last projects were an &A platform, a real estate investment business, and a personal brand. And I love all of these projects. They come from completely different industries. But what I've realized is that I absolutely love working specifically with personal brands or with

a small business that can be a small team, but where the personal business brand almost is very prominent. So my shift is just leaning a little bit more into that and being a little bit more vocal about personal brand and how your personal brand, especially right now, considering how many fake personal brands they are, how important it is and how it's an incredible

Marketing tool is an incredible way to gain visibility, to attract people, to grow your audience, to grow your business. And so whether that's on the agency side and the clients that we work with or in also my education. So I'm leaning a little bit more into helping creatives embrace their personal brand as a marketing tool. That's kind of the pivot that is happening right now for me, simply because that's what I'm passionate about.

And it's a new niche that I'm gonna be trying myself in for the next, I would say, a couple of years.

Shannon Mattern (13:55.724)

Yeah, mean, it's so interesting that you're bringing this up because I just sent out an email today telling my email list that I'm no longer going to be having AI help me write my weekly newsletter because I used to write it every single week. And then I was like,

Well, I can just teach AI to use my brand voice and then help. And then I can take this off my plate. They say delegate the things that you can't do and keep the things that only you can do. And if I can have something else right for me, then I'm taking this thing off my plate. Well, I did that back in August. And our engagement metrics.

like tanked like dramatically. And, you know, we made, we made some, couple of other changes that we think, you know, contributed to that as well. But that just go like that just underscores the point of like, I removed the personal from my brand. And I, and I experienced the outcome of that.

and so I think that we are all, we have at our fingertips, lots of tools that are going to replace some of the things, some of the like things that like take maybe a little like longer time or whatever. But when you start, I just experienced like when you, I leaned out of my personal brand and the data is showing lean.

back into it and like data aside, like I felt disconnected as well.

Gigi From One6Creative (15:51.015)

absolutely. Yeah. I had the exact same experience where, because English is not my first language. So when AI allowed me to write more confidently for me, was a huge boost. But similar to you, I realized that, it doesn't sound like, I felt very disconnected from my content. I started feeling very disconnected through like from...

Shannon Mattern (16:01.462)

Mmm.

Gigi From One6Creative (16:14.407)

making content. If you follow me online, I'm sure, like if you followed me two years ago, I was there every single day, five times a day, I was there. And suddenly I started feeling so disconnected to my own audience because I lost that spark and kind of my voice online that now I'm like, can I even go online without going to my chat GPT first and be like, what should we be posting today? You know? So I'm actually

Shannon Mattern (16:16.269)

Yes.

Shannon Mattern (16:24.78)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yes.

Gigi From One6Creative (16:42.471)

I'm doing something very similar to you where I am not using AI for my content anymore, especially to write that first draft. What I do is that AI does have, so I'm now shifting from ChaiJPT to Cloud. So I'm in this transition phase, but currently still use ChaiJPT mostly. And it has all of my library of content. And instead of writing, for example, if I take the example of a newsletter, instead of starting the newsletter with AI,

Shannon Mattern (16:45.911)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (17:12.369)

I'm actually writing it first and then I'm asking it to, can you go through my library of content and resources and see kind of what can we link up to this newsletter? What type of content can we connect so that there is like all these backlinks happening, et cetera? But that initial writing still comes from my voice. And it's a tough exercise, like getting back into that, know, getting back to finding, fighting your voice.

Shannon Mattern (17:22.165)

Yes.

Shannon Mattern (17:37.868)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (17:41.133)

When you go on LinkedIn, or even on Instagram, every state like sect, I don't know, I would say 80 % of content is just the same AI, you know, and it could be just one person writing it, you suddenly start losing those like differentiators like, yeah, this person writes like this. And I always recognize her content because they always say this, or they always talk like this. And suddenly that spark is is lost, which is why, you know, I really want to

Shannon Mattern (17:51.436)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (18:09.785)

lean into that personal branding piece a little bit more and help people regain that confidence in being their imperfect self, because this is what makes you human and this is what makes you interesting.

Shannon Mattern (18:22.989)

I love that so much. So I talked a little bit about how, you know, I noticed my behavior on how I even search for things and use the internet is completely different, you know, now than it was even three months ago, like now I'm just going straight to Gemini for anything that I used to go straight to Google for. taking a step back to when we talked about, you know, your

really leaning into like AEO and, you know, we're talking about how people even interact with websites is different. I love to hear, you know, your perspective on like, what's still important? What never changed? What's what is changing now? Where as designers to like stay relevant? Do we need to, to shift and focus on? So yeah, I'd just love to hear your take on that.

Gigi From One6Creative (19:20.743)

So I think maybe we can start with kind of a very quick one-liner of what AEO stands for, if you haven't heard of that term. So AEO stands for Answer Engine Optimization. And to explain it as simply as possible, if you think of SEO, which is search engine optimization, SEO is really trying to get your website to show up on Google and for people to show up as a blue link and for people to basically click that link.

Shannon Mattern (19:27.041)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (19:50.779)

With AO, things are changing a little bit because AO is trying to get your brand to show up as an answer instead on AI summary. On Google, for example, when you search for something, now you get that little AI summary blurb at the top. On Chai GPT, Claw, Gemini, whatever, whatever, kind of tool, AI tool that you may be using there. And that is a massive, massive shift because instead of

Now, or in the past, we were optimizing for search engines for Google, for example. Now you actually have to optimize your site and your content, especially so that those AI powered search engines can not just understand it, but they can scan it and they can trust it. When somebody is asking a question, like, for example, if you're on camera, I just realized that my red light mask is just behind me.

Shannon Mattern (20:44.589)

So yes, yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (20:46.555)

which is my little Christmas present. And I didn't even Google, like that was just through Google, through chat GPT search, right? Like what is the best red light therapy, red light mask? And boom, you get all these answers. The main problem, or not problem, the main thing that has changed is that now people get, well, first of all, there is less clicks to your site in general.

people have seen massive drops in traffic to their site because people don't really need to click through your site, especially if, know, depending obviously what type of business you're running, but clicking on your site doesn't mean a conversion anymore. So you have that, you know, the click is basically no longer guaranteed. I can't remember what type of research it was, but...

There was a research that basically said that when that AI summary appeared on Google, users clicked less on the link. They clicked like half, 50 % less on those blue links versus when it wasn't there. Because people are finding the answer that they're looking for directly there. So that's a massive thing to consider as well. The other thing is that the first, so traditionally,

When I was before AI and all of that, when I was doing a web strategy session with my client before we would dive into design, I always would think, okay, so what is the first impression we want to make when a user lands on the website? Now you need to think of what is the first impression that we need to make before the user even lands on the website? Because that's the thing.

Now people are starting to make a first impression about your client's business before they actually land there. Inside those AI generated answers inside the AI summary, you know, if I take the, I don't know if we look, what is the, who is the best newborn photographer in Zurich? Exactly. If you search for that,

Shannon Mattern (23:03.999)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (23:06.193)

people, Chai GPT or another tool will give you some examples and people will start forming opinions before they even land on your site. Now what that means for you is that not only you have to aim to get on that list of suggestions, but once people land on your site, they already have a first impression on you and now your job is to convert that first impression

with their expectations. So they already form an expectation of what is going to be. And now you have basically the stakes are much higher. But the thing is, it was always that way. You always like that, that was always the case. So when I, you know, I talked about this topic a couple of times and when I get asked like, what are the things that have changed? I wouldn't say that the things have really changed is that the stakes are so much higher now.

So all of the things that we were already supposed to do as designers and strategists, very important, we still have to do them, but now the stakes are, well, now we have to do them more. We have to be even more careful and pay more attention to the strategy before we get into designing. So things like, you know, ensuring that...

As soon as the visitor lands on your site, they need to make sure that they know immediately they are in the right place. They know who you are. They know what you do. That always was the case, but now it's even more simply because people are showing up to your site with already a first impression. And now the risk of not converting them is even higher. So those are like to, kind of, you know, tip into that conversation. Those are the first.

big changes that are happening. But then we can also talk about, you know, what are some things that we need to specifically be looking out for to rank on AO if you want.

Shannon Mattern (25:11.498)

Yeah, I definitely want to get into that next. And I totally agree with you that like the things that the things that we were already supposed to be doing now are like the stakes are higher. And it's so interesting to think about like, I've already by the time I even come here, I've probably already researched all your competitors, like in one post.

on chat GBT, I've got or wherever I'm searching, I've got that tab open or I've got it open on my phone. I'm gonna give you even less time. I'm just gonna be clicking over here because I have this whole other curated list of places that aren't ads. There's context with it unlike Google where like I just got the, you know,

a list of 10, but I had to do the mental work to figure out the context and decide if it's right. That's already all been done for me. And so when I get there, like, you need to like keep me there. Otherwise I'm going back to the list and I'm going to the next, to the next, to the next. And I've told the story on the podcast before I was shopping for rugs for my bedroom. And of course I go to Wayfair and I start looking through Wayfair and I'm like,

I don't even know where to start. There are so many. Like, I'm trying to use filters, whatever. And then I'm like, I'm just going to ask chat GPT. Like, my walls are gray. I painted my bedroom set this blue color from this website here. And I don't know what color of rug I should get or where to buy. Can you help me? Like, I'm just talking to it like it's my friend that's a designer. And then it's like, this rug at Rugs Direct from Magnolia, whatever, whatever.

is a great one. So I click over there. And immediately, the first thing they offer me isn't a coupon. It's a sizing guide for whatever room I'm buying in my house. And I'm like, that is exactly what I need. Because I'm not going to go to my garage and get a tape measure to figure out what size rug I need. It's just going to tell me. And that was such a different experience than what I had on the other sites that I was rug shopping on.

Shannon Mattern (27:36.001)

that I'm like, you did something that AI wasn't doing for me to keep me there and convert me instantly. You anticipated that if I'm here, the only reason I'm going to like be able to make this purchase now is if I know exactly the size that I need. And you swooped in and you saved the day and you got the sale. And now I'm I've told the story three times on this podcast because I was so impressed. And I'll buy all my rugs.

from there from now on. And there were so many other stores in that list that ChatGPT gave me, but they hooked me from the beginning. And I think that that's the kind of thing that is like the thing to pay attention to when all of the information is right here at my fingertips. You can't just give me more information.

Gigi From One6Creative (28:30.513)

That's a really good example of a brand that understands visitor intent and how can we help them when they arrive. I see so many of, especially online shopping brands where the first thing you get when you land on their site is a 10 % discount on your first offer, on your first order. I don't even know if I want to order from you yet. Why are you just shoving this in my face? Another thing that probably I would have loved to see from, we're taking the example of a rug,

Shannon Mattern (28:36.448)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (28:59.271)

is some kind of maybe like, try our rug in this VR experience. So you can actually take your phone and see how that rug would look like in your room, because that for me as a buyer, that's what I want. And that 10 % that I'm going to save is not, it's not really what's going to tell me like, yeah, I don't know, maybe I will go with you because you offer a 10 % and not 50 % or whatever. So that's a really great example of good understanding of visitor intent for sure.

But I think the main thing that is happening right now is that instead of for us designers, web designers, we were always thinking about the conversion on page. So I was, as I was saying, all of the things that are important, you know, ensuring clarity and thinking about traditional SEO as well, all of those things are still incredibly relevant. We just need to implement, like we really need to implement, not just brush it off and be like, okay.

but really, really implement them. But now there's this additional layer of, okay, what are the things that we can do to help our clients show up in those answers, for them to show up in those recommendations, for them to give them a chance. Because your client's business might be on page six of Google and still be the number one recommendation if they ask for what are the best cupcakes, birthday cupcakes in my city.

So Google's traditional Google search positions are not as important, but traditional SEO recommendations, all of those things that you need to do are important for you to show up even on on AI engines. So do you want to talk about some of those things? Okay. I also want to preface by saying that I am not an expert at this.

Shannon Mattern (30:46.08)

Yes, let's get into it.

Gigi From One6Creative (30:54.407)

This is not like my core area of expertise. These are the things that I've learned along the way. And also, if you're listening to this in six months, maybe all of this is irrelevant by now, because it's moving so fast that even I'm trying to kind of catch up and learn. And I'm sure that if you are an expert on this, I am sure maybe you know much more than me. I'm just saying that we're all learning here.

Shannon Mattern (31:05.206)

Yeah

Shannon Mattern (31:11.542)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (31:21.703)

And if we are only knowing 1 % of this, most of our clients, know even less than us. So we're already winning here by even learning. Very important.

Shannon Mattern (31:21.759)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (31:31.629)

Well, yeah, and I just want to say that, like, before we dig into that, like, that's always the case with everything in this space that we're in, the technology is changing, the platforms are changing, like so much changes. And, like, we all I think all of us have that curiosity. You know, what makes someone want to even get into this field is like, they're curious, they like to solve problems, they like to try new like, so

I feel like we're all always learning all the time. And we can all have a lot of expertise. But I don't think that like anyone can be I'm sure there are people that can be the foremost expert on the thing. But it changes so much that like once you know something, there's some there's always something else to know. So I would just say for those of you listening, like, don't let don't think that you have to know

everything before you can get started implementing these things for your clients. You know, it's don't let that hold you back. So I'm so glad that you that you preface what you were saying by that because it gives everybody else permission to use this knowledge now without feeling like they have to know all of the things first because they're never going to know all the things. So thank you for saying that.

Gigi From One6Creative (32:53.319)

Absolutely. So there, as I was saying, there are two sides to this, right? On one hand, you have to be...

easy for the human, for us humans to verify and choose. And the other side of it is that you have to be easy for the AI engines to understand and trust. And so I think we have a good understanding of how we can help humans, people like verify us, choose us using all of those best practices, et cetera. We're not gonna dive too much into that.

But now we need to work on the other side of how can we help engines actually understand what we do and trust us. Because the way that AI is choosing who to recommend is based on the amount of information and the clarity of information that is available to them. So before we had just humans browsing our websites, now we have AI agents that are these little robots that's, know, when there is an

a question, I'm not gonna call it an inquiry, but a question that a person answers, enters into AI, like who is the best, who makes the best newborn cupcakes in Boston, you will have this little robot that scans all of the information online and provides those suggestions. And I would say that one of the biggest mistakes that I have seen my clients do, that my clients make,

that is preventing them to show up in those results. And it's hard to predict and it's hard to guarantee. So I also want to say that is that it's a very impossible thing right now because it's also so new. It's a very new technology and it's a new era. It's impossible to guarantee that every time somebody is gonna enter that question that your client is absolutely going to show up. So don't make any guarantees there just like.

Gigi From One6Creative (34:55.929)

I feel like with SEO is also hard to make guarantees, at least there is some kind of currently of an algorithm that you can work with. Whereas with AO, you can only follow the best practices and kind of hope for the best. Also, every time that AI actually searches the web, it searches for new information, and it also gives different types of information as well. So that's another thing to remember. But one of the main mistakes I've seen my clients make is that

they are just not clear enough about what is it that they do and who they do it for, where do they operate, et cetera. And all the copywriters are going to hate me right now because copywriting is a craft. And I think that sometimes, especially when I work with copywriters and personal brands, you know, we like to kind of

tell the brand story in a very, I don't know, maybe aspirational way or what we do in a very aspirational way. Even to be honest, like I'm saying this on the podcast, but a conversion led brand and web designer, that's a lot of words, to be honest, that I'm pretty sure my ideal client, a personal brand business is not typing who's the best conversion led designer. So don't follow my, my own doing here.

But what I'm saying is that you need to tell your client that they have to be incredibly clear at what they do because AI doesn't have the emotional intelligence to understand fluff. They just don't have this. It's a machine. And so they are following exactly what the question is. If the question is asking who makes the best newborn cupcakes in Boston, weird example, but we're just going to go with it.

Shannon Mattern (36:51.348)

You

Gigi From One6Creative (36:53.147)

That's exactly what they're gonna be looking for specifically. So your copy needs to be very clear. The visitor that lands on your site needs to see exactly what is it that you do, who you do it for. And one of the practices that I've seen is actually using questions in copy, in content. We're gonna talk a lot about content messaging and positioning here because it's...

that's exactly what those engines are looking for. They're looking just for, well, they're not really looking for design, they're looking for the things that they can read on the page, right? So one of the practices that I've seen that works really well is actually rewriting your content from a question perspective, right? Or even making pages, instead of just having your general pages like home about services,

having specific pages that answer that specific question. The more direct you are, and TPS is very similar to traditional SEO, right? But the more direct you are in what you do and clear in who is it that you serve, what kind of problem you serve, what kind of outcome you have, what your process is, the better it is because then AI can gather as much information as possible about you and then

decide whether first of all, you're trustworthy, whether you're real, whether you're worthy of being basically mentioned in one of those recommendations. The other thing as well is because there's many, there's this massive increase in fake businesses, fake websites, fake brands. Another thing that AI is looking for is whether you're real or not. So it doesn't only scan your own website, but it will also scan the entire

world of web, looking for information about you. So things like Google reviews, things like your clients getting mentioned on Reddit, which is the most trustworthy source of information online, if you didn't know. mean, to be honest, I searched for most of the things on Reddit, because it's human, right? But getting mentioned on Reddit, Google reviews,

Shannon Mattern (39:05.716)

you

Shannon Mattern (39:10.879)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (39:15.687)

Prove to AI that you are real, that you are a real business, that you exist, that people interact with you, that people say good things about you. And that's also really important. So building that proof is more important than ever. Not just putting testimonials on your website, which is also very important, but actually building that proof outside of your business. Again, something that was always important.

But now it's more important than ever if you want a chance to be featured in one of these recommendations. There is this one last thing that I will mention is there is this, I guess, framework. It's like Google's, what was it called? Google's standards framework for evaluating basically your content quality on the website. How...

good of quality it is. And I think it's called EAT, E-E-A-T. I don't know if you've heard this before. And something that I say is that your site, your client site, need to eat more than ever before. That's exactly what needs to happen. And so EAT, which is E-E-A-T, stands for experience, expertise, authority, and trustworthiness.

Shannon Mattern (40:18.094)

huh.

Gigi From One6Creative (40:39.749)

So those are kind of the four areas that your client side needs to hit in order to tell Google that this is a quality side, it has, you showcase the experience, you showcase the expertise, you showcase the authority through all of these testimonials and outside proof, and that you're trustworthy. This is what not only Google searches for, but what AI will search for as well, more than ever. So.

If there is one sentence that you need to remember from this podcast episode is that your site needs to eat. You really need to hit on all of those four elements.

Shannon Mattern (41:17.663)

That is so good. So as you're sharing all of this, and we were talking earlier about traditional brand designers or traditional web designers who are building the thing with their clients. How are you having conversations with your clients now about what they

need to be doing in an ongoing capacity, right? Because, you know, we're building, we build the house for all of these things to live in the design for so that the human, you know, feels something and gets the, you know, gets led through the experience, you know, because like you said, AI can't see the design, they're just looking at the words.

and the human needs to experience the design and be able to, you know, move their way through that. clients always had to do these things for SEO, but now they're having to do them in a different way. Like, how do we as designers have the conversation, and you alluded to it a little bit, but with our clients about like, your responsibility.

is changing as a business owner, like in terms of what you need to commit to and do in order to stay relevant in this changing, in these changes as well, you know, because that's kind of what I'm thinking is like, this is a different conversation. It's the same one we've always had, but it's a different one. It's like, if you build it, they will not come.

There are things that you have to do and your responsibility is even more now. I feel like I'm curious what your impression is and like how you're having these conversations with your clients about what they need to do to feed their website that has to eat.

Gigi From One6Creative (43:30.875)

I think it, mean, if it's a client, if it's a new client that I'm working with, the web strategy session, the website, your workshop that we have before designing is we're going to more detail. we always started with, okay, let's define the primary goal of this website. That was kind of like the starting point. Whereas now it's more like, okay, let's define what are the things that people are asking about.

Shannon Mattern (43:40.746)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (43:48.298)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (43:59.585)

what you do, not you specifically as a business, as a, not you as a business specifically, but you as the service that you deliver, the product that you sell, what are the, let's say, top 10 primary questions that they're asking that will lead them to get on your site. And that kind of changes also the way that we structure each individual page because we want them to, yes, they will get,

Shannon Mattern (44:07.627)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (44:17.035)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (44:23.317)

Mm-hmm.

Gigi From One6Creative (44:26.299)

potentially the answer to these questions through the AI engines. But we also need to make sure that once they land on this site, that they get this confirmation that they are in the right place. So the general structure of the pages and the content changes a little bit, simply because people are showing up with a higher intent. And as we discussed, they're becoming very, very savvy visitors. People are...

comparing competitors in a very different way now. So that's the first part, right? But then I have clients that I've worked with for a long time that actually currently I'm going to be working with. One of my past clients was a photographer. We're going to be completely restructuring her content because she sees that what she's, well, she's also pivoting a little bit, but she sees that the traditional SEO work is it, it's not enough anymore.

So we're going to be implementing more strategic FAQ sections. I've always been a massive fan of FAQ sections. This is like the gold mine. think every single site needs to have an FAQ section. If you have a blog, at the end of each blog, you need to have an FAQ section. And at the end of each of your services page, you need to have an FAQ section. It's just a content gold mine. Every single site needs to have one, even if you think that they don't need.

They absolutely need one. Working with a property investment company now and I'm like, like, why would we add this? I'm like, trust me, you need to add this. It's not only, you know, in the past FAQ sections where, well, traditionally for like my online course creator clients, for example, you know, it's kind of like, Oh, what do do investment plans? And it's kind of like the, I'm not talking about this type of FAQ sections where the questions they ask themselves before they convert.

No, I'm saying to use an FAQ section as a tool for AI to scan those questions so that they can answer them before people even land on your site. So make sure to always encourage your clients to add those in. Things like, especially photographers, their case studies or portfolio pieces are usually like standards.

Gigi From One6Creative (46:48.807)

portfolio, like imagery, whereas now you need to go deeper. You need to be more specific about what you do. Not only it actually shows those engines that again, you're trustworthy, you're human, you have things going on, but again, it also is an incredible opportunity from a search engine point of view to gather more content about you, to use your keywords, to pre-answer any questions, et cetera. So

Again, especially if you're savvy in SEO, a lot of those things you might be like, duh, we already knew this. It's so obvious, but I feel like the main change is that it's not optional anymore. I think that's the biggest shift that I'm seeing.

Shannon Mattern (47:23.243)

you

Shannon Mattern (47:31.519)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (47:37.227)

I love that you said that. And it makes me think of, you know, the, the opportunity in front of every single listener right now is that all of the clients that you need are already right in front of you. They all need this. If they're not doing it, what a great opportunity for you to reach out and have a conversation, like let them know what the changes are, get them thinking about what needs to

happen differently on their site so that they can stay relevant, stay ahead. And you can create more work from the clients, more projects, more opportunities from the clients already in front of you, even if their design is still working for them and they don't need a brand refresh or anything like that. There's so much opportunity for you to go in and help them.

reposition or add these FAQ sections or just rework things like the people, these projects are right in front of you right now. The opportunity is huge right now. yeah, what are your thoughts on creating these opportunities for yourself?

Gigi From One6Creative (48:57.065)

absolutely. I mean, if you already have past clients you worked with before, I would put together some sort of offer to pitch your past clients and say, Hey, I, you know, spend some time studying all of those changes. Think about how does it affect your clients? Because if you're someone who works with a service provider is one thing. If you work with, e-commerce clients, it's another thing. Like different things will affect them.

I mean, e-commerce through AI is a whole other topic. Like the opportunities there are just absolutely crazy. The fact that people can shop through Chad GPT without even landing on your client's site is just absolutely incredible. But you know, your client, if they're tracking their traffic to their site, they might be like, what?

Shannon Mattern (49:36.477)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (49:47.193)

getting sales without people actually landing on my site? Or how can we make it happen? How can we ensure that people are buying our stuff without landing on our site? So absolutely an opportunity to explore that to learn about this a little bit more and then reach out to your past clients and pitch them a little bit a little offer saying that, hey, we don't need to redesign your site, but there are strategic changes that we can make to help you.

show up on these AI or ensure that you're compliant with all of this, just little things that can, that can improve. It can be as simple as I've read this article saying about how important we talked about this, ensuring clarity in your content and things like CTAs, know, AI is really like they, as I said, it's a machine. It looks for clarity.

Shannon Mattern (50:28.958)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (50:39.751)

And if your CTAs are something super vague and super fluff, they're going to get confused. They're going to be like, but there isn't a clear way to buy from this person or to contact this business or whatever. And that's going to confuse the hack out of them. So maybe that's the case for one of your clients who just, you know, they like the fluffy aspirational talk and that's fine. But you can say, but listen, we need to make sure that those CTAs are clear and they convert.

Shannon Mattern (50:43.839)

Yeah.

Gigi From One6Creative (51:08.615)

So let's change this. Let's add a couple of FAQ sections to your site. Let's expand on your case studies or maybe if they are, if you're a designer and your portfolio is just images of your beautiful, talented, incredible work, which is also important, but expand on those case studies. Tell a specific story, but not a fluffy story, not just pure fluff, but think strategically of what are the things that I can share about this project.

to make the engines happy. Reach out to your past clients for testimonials or maybe take a past client testimonial and switch it, not rewrite it and just publish it. if we're gonna go back to our example of the cupcakes, somebody searching for best newborn cupcakes in Boston, maybe you can take a customer's

Shannon Mattern (51:57.139)

Mm-hmm.

Gigi From One6Creative (52:06.859)

testimonial and actually include that in their testimonial. Then send them, send it to them, say, Hey, are you happy if I'm just twisting this? I just want to improve my, my search engine optimization or whatever. just trying to, you know, boost business. Are you happy with this? Yeah, great. And pose that. Right. So things like this can make a huge difference. doesn't have to be a whole revamp, but small changes like this.

reach out to your past client, offer something like this, and then maybe get them on a little retainer where every month you can do little tweaks here and there, or maybe quarterly you can send them a list of changes that you can make on their site, or content that they can upload, or something like this. Because I think that your client doesn't have the time, unless they have a team that is monitoring all of this, they don't have the time to look into that.

And if you're here and you're saying, I can do this for you. I can take off this off your plate and I'll just do this for you for a monthly fee. It's a no brainer.

Shannon Mattern (53:12.394)

So good. I could listen to you talk about this forever, but we are at time and I'm so glad you're coming to the Simply Profitable Designer Summit this year to go even deeper. Can you share more with our listeners where they can go to connect with you, learn about how you work with designers to help them grow their businesses and all of the things?

Gigi From One6Creative (53:32.455)

Yes, absolutely. So you can find me on Instagram at one six creative. I'm sure there will be links somewhere, somewhere there. Uh, and you can, yeah, you can connect with me there. Uh, I'm now getting back into being a little bit, as I said, a little bit more vocal, a little bit leaning more into that personal brand element to help you market and sell your services with more confidence using your personal brand.

Shannon Mattern (53:38.537)

Yes.

Gigi From One6Creative (53:57.619)

and please do come to the summit because on the summit, I will be more specific on the strategies and things that you can implement to actually rank. Well, improve your chances on ranking on, AI engines. So absolutely get your free ticket show up. and yeah, I hope I'll see you there.

Shannon Mattern (54:19.924)

Thank you so much for being here, Gigi. I really appreciate it. And we'll see everyone else back here next week. Bye, everyone.