#132 – Making Your Own Rules in Parenthood and Business with Meryn Hayes of Dash Studio

Shannon Mattern (00:02.042)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Profitable Web Designer podcast. And today I am joined by Maren Hayes, the executive producer at Animation and Motion Design Studio Dash in Raleigh, North Carolina. And she is a passionate working mom who loves spotlighting women and mothers in the creative field. So Maren, welcome to the show.

Meryn Hayes (00:25.044)

Awesome. Thanks so much for having me.

Shannon Mattern (00:27.716)

Yeah, so I'm really excited to be talking to you today because I'm actually not a mom. So balancing work and motherhood is usually not a topic that comes up on the podcast. And the majority of our listeners are women, you know, and our parents and or even are just like in a caregiver role in their family. So I'm excited to dig in with you about, you know, balancing motherhood and a creative career and really like having this

conversation on the podcast. So I'd love to just kind of start out like going a little bit back in time. And I'd love to hear just more about your background and what led you to your current role as executive producer at a motion graphics studio.

Meryn Hayes (01:14.318)

Yeah, it's funny. think if you'd asked me five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, you know, if I would be doing this, there's no way I could have imagined it, which is just one of life's great surprises. I think I've always found myself as a creative, I'd like to think I'm a creative at heart. And so I got into photography at a really young age. My dad's a really passionate photographer. So I kind of found that in high school and was like, this is it. This is what I want to do with the rest of my life. I'm going to go to art school.

I ended up going to Rochester Institute of Technology in upstate New York. They have a great photography program. And I was just convinced that that's what I was gonna do. And towards the end of my time there, I was like, I don't want to move to New York City and be a freelance photographer, which was kind of like the thing that everyone was doing. And I ended up graduating with a degree that was a little bit more multidisciplinary. So it included some project management.

photography, of course, and then design. And so I was like, I can be a part of the design process without actually doing the creative myself. And that was the first insight into like, this is feasible. I don't have to like do the actual creative. And so after graduating in the peak 2008 recession, I realized that I needed to be a little scrappy. So I ended up doing a bunch of random things as jobs, which ended up being really good.

I think puzzle pieces into producing. There's a lot that goes into it. And then I found myself about a decade ago in Raleigh at an advertising agency. And so I was able to work my way up through their project management department into kind of an account management role. And that's where I really fell in love with animation and motion design. And two of the animators at that agency ended up leaving and starting Dash.

And a few years went by and they called and said, hey, we want you to be a producer. And I said, what the heck, let's do it. And so that's how I found myself here, which again, it was a winding and strange road, but I'm really, I'm really happy.

Shannon Mattern (03:21.476)

So what does a producer do? Like what's a day in the life look like for you?

Meryn Hayes (03:26.678)

Yeah, that's a good question. think no two days are the same, which for my, way my brain works is I think a really good thing. So on the front side, client facing, we're kind of like the front lines in terms of meeting clients, understanding what their needs are, sort of that like account management role. And then we'll also turn towards our internal team and be sort of like the conduit between external client facing and then internal. And so it's a really

balancing role, which is sometimes hard. You have to be the face of, you know, client management, but also defend the team and the creative. And so it's a little bit of like a balancing act in and of itself. And so most of my days are spent a lot of meetings with clients, but then also like really fun meetings with our team to like brainstorm ideas or like, Hey, what if we pitch this wild idea that we've never done before?

Shannon Mattern (04:18.638)

That sounds really, really fun. you know, one of the things that we were chatting about before I hit record is, is like, we were talking about how, you know, you have really like carved a path in a traditionally male dominated space and,

you know, I serve, I coach exclusively like women web designers and help them with like the business side of running their business because it is like such a unique experience being a woman in a male dominated industry as web designers as well. And so I'm curious, like what were, what has your path been like and what makes you so passionate about that?

Meryn Hayes (04:52.312)

Mm-hmm.

Meryn Hayes (05:08.78)

Yeah, I think it's just knowing that we go to a lot of schools, so art schools, SCAD down in Savannah is a big one, and we go to, they have an event every year, and sitting in the audience and seeing all these kids so passionate about what they do, a lot of them are women. And so like what happens to them once they leave art school, like where do they go? They don't end up in positions, management positions, they don't end up in art director positions or

starting their own studios or own businesses. It's hard. A lot of challenges come with coming into the industry and being a minority. And so I think one of the things that I've just always been passionate about equality and wanting to make sure that if I'm ever in a position where I can provide someone a seat at the table, like I wanna be able to provide that.

Shannon Mattern (06:02.96)

I was having this conversation with a friend the other night and you know, just she's in medicine and you know, I'm like, I'm an entrepreneur and she's like, well, tell me more about exactly what you do. And, you know, I was just explaining, you know, the basics like, yeah, I help women web designers package, sell, you know, web design projects, run the business side of their business. Like they bring the skills. We teach them how to, you know, create a business.

Meryn Hayes (06:32.557)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (06:32.654)

And I was like, but I said, really? Like what I do is like show women that there is like another way. You know, it just happens to be through the conduit of web design, because that's like my background and my career. But I love what you said about like, you you go to art school or these design schools and you see all these women and then you don't see them.

Meryn Hayes (06:45.943)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (06:59.736)

you know, as the head of an agency or, you know, in the rooms, you know, in the decision maker roles are like in these roles. so, yeah, I'm very much aligned with like, how do we, how do we support women in, you know, being able to, like you said, balance all of these.

seemingly competing obligations, but to be able to really have that full life. So what were some of your, you know, early or current challenges in terms of, you know, motherhood and career and like, what is your approach to that?

Meryn Hayes (07:44.239)

I think one of the hardest things for me, especially my daughter is seven and a half now. So we've gotten through some of the real like in the throws of the early years. But I just remember feeling like I had no idea what I was doing. Like with

anything and that is not a feeling I love. Nobody really loves it, but I'm like super type A. I'm a Virgo. I'm like all of the things that like I got my list. That's me. And so like you bring home this little thing and you're like, what do, what do I do? And so I think I, I really started challenging my concept of like, what does a good parent look like? this, had my daughter in 2017, you know, there's always been like,

moms on the internet and like showing you this perfect life. As we all know, all the internet makes everything look perfect. And I think that was a moment where I just thought if I was struggling, like it could only be me because I'd never seen like the challenges of motherhood on the internet. I do think that is different now than it was when my daughter was born, but it just really made me question.

what I was doing. And I think the lesson there is that nobody knows what they're doing. And that is in parenthood and that is in business. And I think there's something that's just like, when you realize that, and I know you like, if you're in school, you hear it and you're just like, yeah, okay. But like, once you really realize it, I think I could just like breathe a little bit. And I just realized that I was setting insane expectations of myself that

were just impossible to meet and that would just immediately make me feel like a failure. And so once I released myself of that, it really changed my perspective.

Shannon Mattern (09:45.909)

I love what you said about how nobody knows what they're doing, like in parenthood or in business. I was just having this conversation. We have like a mastermind group of women who, you know, after they've kind of worked through the foundational stuff, they come into our next level program and we were talking about like, what was something unexpected about like being in this room with

these other women and one of them said, I thought that once I got here, I wasn't supposed to have any more problems. And I kept thinking, why am I still having problems? I've reached this level in my business. I've reached this income level in my business. I've hit these markers and milestones, but why am I still having problems? And she was like, and then I realized, there are

Meryn Hayes (10:28.012)

Hmm.

Shannon Mattern (10:42.724)

There's never a moment when I will have arrived. I get to not even look at these things as problems anymore. And I just get to be in a room with other people who are here to support me through it instead of trying to like do it all on my own. And I think that that was the, I was like, that is such a brilliant realization to stop trying to solve this. It is not a problem.

Meryn Hayes (10:46.21)

Mm-hmm.

Meryn Hayes (10:49.984)

Mm-hmm.

Meryn Hayes (11:08.43)

everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, my husband, I've talked a lot about, like the feeling of being content, and how that is just so hard to do in most industries. In our society, like we're brought up to just like, you have to be productive if you're not doing something like you're failing. And so I think there is something that is so simple, but so gratifying about understanding what being content means to you.

And so that you're just not always like, once you reach X, you're still not happy. well, I got to keep going. Like that drive, I think is just something that I've also realized I need to find like inner peace versus striving for what I think is like the next goal.

Shannon Mattern (11:54.778)

Yeah, and there's something there about sufficiency and contentment. What are we working towards? Is it this external thing that we're chasing, or do we actually already have it and we just need to like?

Meryn Hayes (12:03.0)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (12:21.044)

see it and experience it and allow it to be like, wait, I already have what I think I'm chasing. I just need to like stop and look at it. Yeah.

Meryn Hayes (12:30.862)

And remember that. Yeah. Yeah. On especially busy days where like my house is a mess and we're running late to school and we've got two dogs and two cats and like my husband and I have all of our things. I just have to remind myself that like there's some quote that like at one point you wanted all of this, right? Like this is what you worked towards my whole life. I worked towards this and

And that like mindset shift just, again, it's, I'm doing yoga teacher training right now. And one of the things that we've just been focusing so much on is gratitude and just the interjection of gratitude throughout my day is, just something that is completely changing my perspective. And I think that's something that a lot of people need a reminder of.

Shannon Mattern (13:23.482)

So good. So I work with a lot of women who are parents of young children. And, you know, full disclosure, like I said earlier, I don't have children. So the context through which I know how to help them is like, okay, well, I can know what it was like when I was.

working a corporate job and also running this business on the side and trying to balance the demands of those two totally different things. Like one doesn't need me to like keep it alive. you know, and so I'm curious and I'm picking your brain like for the benefit of future listeners and just being able to like have a resource to say, Hey, go listen to my conversation with Marin.

Meryn Hayes (13:59.937)

I'm

Shannon Mattern (14:17.056)

What advice do you have for someone who like has small children and at the same time is growing a business because they want to be there for their children. They want that freedom to drop off at school, pick up at school, drop everything for a sick child. Like they want to not have to ask for permission for that. And that's why they're doing this.

but also that unpredictability and those things, they almost seem at odds with each other, right? And it feels impossible. So what advice or words of encouragement or anything do you have for those women?

Meryn Hayes (15:04.674)

Yeah, I think one thing that's really resonated with me is just prioritization and having children just like forces that in the most severe way that like, you can do anything, but you can't do everything. You can't do it all, you know. I don't know who I take this quote, because I love it so much, but I should find out who said it. You can juggle all the balls in the air, right?

but some of them are glass and some of them are plastic. You don't drop the glass ones, you can drop the plastic ones. know, like something's gonna drop, you're not gonna be able to do it all. And I think that's one of the really unsafe things about the perfect mother, perfect parent that we see on the internet or we see in media is that like, you can't do it all. You're just not seeing the people that are failing or the parts that are failing. And so I think over the years that...

we've had our daughter, it's just a constant prioritization. And I think the thing that's hard to keep up with is like, it's not always gonna be, this is the most important. It's just like, it's always shifting. And so I think giving yourself grace is something that, again, I think we all struggle with, but just knowing that.

finding what is most important to you at that time, I think all of the rest kind of falls away. like you have to focus on your kid during these hours, like stuff is gonna wait. And if people, you don't have a team that is understanding of that, or you don't have clients that are understanding of that, like, I don't know that I wanna be working with them. You know, it's about setting boundaries and sticking to them and not letting people.

push you around if they don't agree with them.

Shannon Mattern (16:56.418)

I love that. And that's like one of the biggest things that we talk about, you know, inside of our programs and on this podcast is that you get to be the one to make the rules. You also get to renegotiate the rules at any time. And if the rules, you know, no longer are mutually beneficial, you can end those relationships. And it is.

Meryn Hayes (17:12.63)

Mm-hmm.

Meryn Hayes (17:23.405)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (17:26.38)

It's like to have that conversation with someone and like see the gears turning in their brain that they're like, wait a minute, you're telling me that I don't have to ask for permission for any of this? And it like breaks their brain.

Meryn Hayes (17:41.966)

permission.

Shannon Mattern (17:51.438)

And I love breaking people's brains in that way. Like it's so fun.

Meryn Hayes (17:53.836)

Yeah. Yeah. And that like saying no is a no is a full sentence. You know, I think there is something that is so hard when you're running a business, starting a business, like you there's a scarcity mindset, though, like I have to say yes to everything. And that's just a really easy way to turn them to, you know, lead to burnout. And so if something is not serving you, you don't have to do it.

Shannon Mattern (18:20.196)

Yeah, we also talk about like creativity and constraints. And I love what you said about like some balls are glass and some balls are plastic. I think that that, I was like, yeah, corporate job, plastic, child, glass. Like that totally like articulated that for me, but also like creativity and constraints. Like you.

Meryn Hayes (18:24.366)

Hmm.

Meryn Hayes (18:34.798)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (18:46.596)

get to, because you get to design this to look however you want, like you also get to be creative to come up with ways to create win-wins for you and whoever you're serving. Like you're on a team between like your colleagues and your clients and you get to just come up with, it doesn't have to be like, lose, you win or,

you know, I'm sacrificing, I'm giving to everybody and I have nothing left for myself. That's what I end up seeing happening when people come to us is that they are depleted. They're completely like, they are just saying yes to everything, but what they really want to be saying yes to and that's what we like help them re-engineer. And I love how you're saying

Don't make it look like anybody else's. Don't make it look like what you see online.

Meryn Hayes (19:45.974)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, make it yours. I also think that having kids, you know, it goes back to the priority and like it, it really shows you want you want or like what you want out of life. And when I had my daughter, I was not at Dash where I am now. I was at an internal team at a, at a software company locally here. I loved my team. I loved the work that we were doing.

Shannon Mattern (19:58.928)

Yeah.

Meryn Hayes (20:15.49)

But when the two founders of Dash came to me and said like, hey, do you want to do this? My daughter was 18 months at the time. So she was still pretty young. And I remember having a conversation with my husband, like weighing benefits. Like I was at a big company that had good benefits. I was getting paid well. And here was this startup company, essentially of maybe five people at the time. And it was this huge risk.

phone with one of my childhood best friends and she said, what advice would you tell your daughter if you were in this, if she was in this position? And I like, I goosebumps hearing that and it was six years ago and I knew that that's, I was going to make the leap to go to Dash, that I wanted to like take a risk and I wanted to be doing something more. I felt like I could give more and

if I'm gonna be away from my child during the day, I wanted to be doing something that I was really passionate about. And that is what led me to come to Dash, which is just feel so full circle that I'm like now here being able to share that story with other people to hopefully give them a little bit of push if they feel like they want to risk something. I realize there's a lot of privilege that comes with taking risks, but something that

you know, having my daughter push me to do something that I don't know that I would have done if I hadn't had her that inspiration to consider.

Shannon Mattern (21:47.202)

love to talk more about risk and just perception of risk in terms of like, it's been what five, so has it been like about five years since you made that shift? So what felt risky then? How does it feel now?

Meryn Hayes (22:00.308)

It'll be six years. Yeah, six years.

Meryn Hayes (22:07.758)

like I would do the decision over. mean, easy. Like, you know, hindsight is 2020. It was absolutely the right move. I've been able to working in a, like a startup or a small company, like it was able to satiate the like, you get to wear all these different hats and contribute in all these different ways. We put on an animation conference, a motion design festival.

every two years called the Dash Bash. And that is something that has created like a spark in me about connecting with people in this creative community that I just couldn't have imagined otherwise. So I just like think to all of the things that if I hadn't taken that risk, like I wouldn't know a lot of the amazing people I do now. I get to...

tell my kids, friends that I make animation. Like when I tell people what I do, they're just like, that's so cool. it's, I realize what a, what a surprising thing it is to like love your job and like not get the Sunday scaries. And I am very aware that that is not everyone's experience. And I'm really grateful that I truly do love what I do.

Shannon Mattern (23:25.336)

I think back to when I started my business and I freelanced on the side of my day job for three years. And it was about, so it was 2018, about seven, crazy, seven years ago now that I left a very lucrative corporate job with great benefits and all of those things to start my own, know, go out on my own.

Meryn Hayes (23:44.684)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Meryn Hayes (23:51.918)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (23:54.316)

and it felt so scary at the time. And I don't have dependents, you know, like I had, you know, commitments and responsibilities, but you know, my husband and I, it's like us are bills and our dog, right? So I don't even have dependents and I felt so scared and yet so confident that I could count on

Meryn Hayes (23:57.642)

Absolutely.

Meryn Hayes (24:11.085)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (24:23.472)

count on me, like I knew I would do whatever I needed to do to make it work. And so I can imagine how difficult that decision must be for someone who has more at stake, really. So, but your friend asked you, like, what would you tell your daughter? Like, what was the thought that, like, what would you tell her?

Meryn Hayes (24:23.95)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Meryn Hayes (24:39.406)

Mm-hmm.

Meryn Hayes (24:51.726)

It was along the like, trust your gut and like follow your instincts. There are many moments in my life that like I have attributed to trusting my gut and they have turned out like so well and better than I thought. And I think that's one of the great, know, mysteries of life that life can take you in weird ways that you never would have imagined and...

Shannon Mattern (24:55.738)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (25:09.967)

Yeah.

Meryn Hayes (25:19.65)

that doesn't always work out and you learn from those mistakes. But I'm a very much of a follow your gut, follow your heart kind of person. And so that was, it was an easy, it was easy in that sense, you know, like we looked at our finances, my husband is like steadily employed. like that we had, we had like a parachute if we needed, but it was sort of like,

Shannon Mattern (25:34.224)

Hahaha

Meryn Hayes (25:47.47)

What's the worst that could happen? Like say I do it for a year and it doesn't work out. Like it's an experience, it's a story, we'll start over. I think there's a fear of failure and I think that's something that as you get older, you're a little less scared to do. And so it was just like, well, let's try it and see what happens. so, yeah, it's just been...

Amazing.

Shannon Mattern (26:19.728)

So aside from parenthood, what are some of the other challenges you see women in like motion design and those spaces like encountering and like, do you help them navigate those challenges?

Meryn Hayes (26:42.338)

Yeah, I think during, at least in the animation and motion space, but I think like the past few years have just been kind of a wild ride for most of, most creative, most humans. I mean, if you think about it, like 2020 was one of the best years for the animation industry because everything live action got stopped because COVID. And so like the animation industry like soared. And so I do think one thing that

Shannon Mattern (26:50.672)

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (27:03.684)

Yeah.

Meryn Hayes (27:09.726)

has been an effect of that after the pandemic is the industry is pretty saturated because everyone was like, I'm going to jump in and freelance and you don't have to go to art school anymore. You know, like there's people who teach themselves, you can go to an online course. So I do think that one of the challenges is just making a space for yourself in a really crowded industry. And then besides that, I think it's

One of the things that I've seen, again, post pandemic is just people wanting to find community because if you go freelance or you run your own business, like it's lonely, you know, like it's just you yourself and I trying to do all of the things. so finding other people that you're able to connect with, there's a number of Slack communities or like discord communities that I think have really

allowed people to find space and meet each other. That's one of the things that we try and do with the Dash Bash, which is the event that I mentioned, but it's like an opportunity to bring the community together because it's hard when everyone's so disparate.

They're not able to talk, just having a space where you can like, hey, I've got this challenge. I've got this problem. Like, do you have any advice? Like having communities like that, I think is something that's just been so important to see post pandemic.

Shannon Mattern (28:40.568)

I totally agree with you. And I think that, you know, just in, in the space that I'm in and just like the, you know, co like working with freelancers and coaching freelancers, like information is ubiquitous. Like you can go find. whatever you need to learn, if you know, you need to learn it, you can go figure out what that is. It's the connection, the camaraderie in the community that.

that makes the journey so much more rich and rewarding and just like you said, like less lonely, especially when we're like, I've worked from home since before the Panda, like I've worked from home since I left corporate, you know? And so to realize like, like I haven't spoken a word today. It's just like so weird. Yeah.

Meryn Hayes (29:25.23)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Meryn Hayes (29:35.694)

I need to speak to another human. Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (29:40.566)

Yeah. And so I think that that's what I'm seeing too, is just like creating spaces and opportunities for people with similar like challenges and similar goals and aspirations and desires to like come together and really like connect and feel like seen and heard and safe.

like to, to share those things, I think is like, it's been so rewarding for me to just even facilitate those spaces. I'm like, I'm getting so much more out of this than I like ever intended or, or, or thought that I would. So, yeah, I couldn't agree with you more that like now more than ever community is like, so, so important.

Meryn Hayes (30:35.33)

Yeah, yeah, it's something again, like, I don't know that joining an animation studio would have been like, you're going to play in an event, but here we are. And it's one of, mean, it's a lot of work, but it's just one of the most rewarding things, like seeing people who like two freelancers that might've worked together on a project, but they live like halfway across the country and I've never met in real life or like we've seen companies start because of an event like that where like people meet up and.

Shannon Mattern (30:42.853)

Yeah.

Meryn Hayes (31:02.826)

When Dash started, two co-founders, that's how they got their start. They went to a bunch of events and realized that making connections with people, like getting advice, hearing from studio heads that are like, hey, we made a mistake. Here's how we fixed it. Like, again, having really honest conversations and not just like, look at all the cool work we do. We really want to get into like, life is hard. Here's how we deal with it. It's just, now we want to be able to give that back.

to other people and to the community that exists now. So it's been really, really special to, like you said, facilitate that and just be able to see the sparks that come from it.

Shannon Mattern (31:41.385)

So if anybody is listening and they're like, dash bash, like that sounds like something I would totally be into. Like, tell me more about that.

Meryn Hayes (31:53.408)

Yes, so this is our third time we're throwing it. It's gonna be in June, June 11th. I should know the dates. it's gonna be basically a two-day kind of speaker series. Again, having really honest conversations with people from all different parts of the creative industry. So there's definitely, it leans towards motion design, but in the past we've had people who have done audio.

Shannon Mattern (32:02.905)

Hahaha.

Meryn Hayes (32:22.21)

we'll do like art directors, storyboard artists. I mean, really the gamut of creative. And we just wanna make a space for the community of creatives to be able to have honest and open conversations. Like what is the industry's reaction to AI or like how can we make more room for all of the people entering this industry? It's been something that again, just a really unique group. And so it's basically two days of speakers.

For the first time, we're adding a day before for workshops. So getting a little bit into more of like some tactile one-on-one conversations and workshops. But yeah, it's just a great place to meet other people. That's one of the big things that we tell students especially, or people trying to get into the motion design industry. I mean, most creative industry is just about making connections and not being so transactional about them, but just like being like.

being more human, know, like truly making a connection with someone and something might come of that. It might come from a year from now or it might be tomorrow, but like don't having the expectation that something's gonna come from it.

Shannon Mattern (33:33.592)

I love that so much because one of the biggest things we talk about on this podcast and in my, in our programs is marketing and, know, as a freelancer marketing your business and, know, the one method that we talk about and we teach inside of our program is meeting real people. What a novel concepts. Like,

Meryn Hayes (33:56.216)

people. What a novel concept.

Shannon Mattern (34:02.784)

going to events like Dash Bash or, you know, other spaces where your ideal clients are, communing, creating a space where your ideal clients can, commune. call it like the build your own table concept because, you know, people are like, well, how can I get in the rooms with like the people that I want to ultimately have become my clients? It's like, why don't you just build the room?

Meryn Hayes (34:04.846)

Mm-hmm.

Meryn Hayes (34:11.128)

Mm-hmm.

Meryn Hayes (34:23.224)

Mm.

Shannon Mattern (34:30.628)

Like, why don't you create the table and invite people to sit at it? You certainly can build your own table, facilitate conversations. You know, some of our students and listeners are super introverted and the thought of that terrifies them. It's like, you can go, you know, to someone else's like thing that they've created and just don't prepare your elevator pitch or like whatever.

Meryn Hayes (34:56.746)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, don't don't pitch on don't hand him a business card at the start. Yeah Spiel

Shannon Mattern (35:00.492)

No one wants your 30 second elevator pitch. You don't have to stress about that. Just meet people, ask questions, be curious, connect as a human. like I love that you said it's like have no expectations. Something might come of it a year from now. And it's just so much more fun. And that's marketing quote unquote.

Meryn Hayes (35:25.006)

Yeah, yeah, I think it's like, yeah, people have this expectation that it's like, I don't know, you meet and there's a business need and you're like, great, perfect. And you know, it's like, it's never like that. We are so lucky at Dash that a lot of our work has come from referrals and it like never ceases to amaze me how like strange connections end up like turning into something. And so it's...

a good reminder to like be a good human and try not to make enemies like stuff's gonna come back around whatever you put out in the world is gonna eventually come back to you. So I think it's just about finding good people that you have common interests in and like maintaining those as relationships. And like you said, seeing what comes from it.

Shannon Mattern (36:14.496)

Awesome. So I just have a couple more questions before we wrap up. What types of work does Dash do for our listeners that might have clients that are needing motion design and they don't do that? Or what types of clients do you work with? What types of work do you do?

Meryn Hayes (36:17.166)

Yeah.

Meryn Hayes (36:37.548)

Yeah, so we like to say that animation can simplify complexity. So like a lot of our clients end up having something like, if you think back to like the 2010s, like an explainer video, it's like, have some software or I have a product and like, I don't know how to explain it. And one of the best ways to do that is through animation because, you you could do a live action shoot or you could do photography, but with animation, can...

create it from scratch and really give a high level or a deep dive into explaining something. So a lot of our clients end up having some sort of software service or solution that's difficult to explain. So we end up in the finance space a lot, the tech space, but then we do get to work with a lot of agencies who we might have some more consumer brands and that kind of stuff. So that's one of the fun parts about the job is that

You really just never know what industry, what product. We pretty much run the gamut in terms of what we work on, which is really fun.

Shannon Mattern (37:44.016)

That's really cool. And you also mentioned before we hit record that your team loves partnering with freelancers on different projects and you're always building that network of people. What types of people do you most love to collaborate with and connect with?

Meryn Hayes (38:06.806)

Yeah, so in terms of like Dash's style, one of the things that we call ourselves, we're a generalist studio, so we're not tied to any one specific style like 3D or 2D or live action. We like to do kind of the gamut. And so one of the things that's really beneficial in that is that means we need a variety of different freelancers with different styles. And so aside from having a great portfolio, we've got, we put a lot of value into

communication and collaboration. think collaborating on Slack is so much harder than collaborating in person. So like being really communicative and that kind of stuff, all things that we really highly value. So we've got a form on our website that is for freelancers. And so if you have an interest in becoming a freelancer with Dash, you can fill that out.

Shannon Mattern (38:59.49)

Awesome. So one question, and this is like a more personal question for you that I ask everybody that comes on the show, and that's what belief about yourself did you have to change to get to where you are today?

Meryn Hayes (39:14.818)

Hmm. That's a hard one.

Meryn Hayes (39:24.078)

I think my yoga teacher said this, and I was like, how simple. Like, you can't meet everyone's expectations. And like, I don't know what it was about that, but just I felt that so deeply that I put expectations on myself. You my husband has different expectations than my boss, than my daughter, than my parents. Like everyone's expectations of you.

are different and probably conflict with each other. And the only persons whose expectations you should focus on is yours. It kind of goes back to what we talking about earlier, like what's truly important to you. And I think that's something that my younger people pleasing version of myself was just like, yep, I can make everybody happy. And that just leads to disappointment for almost everybody.

Shannon Mattern (40:22.16)

That is so, so profound and so good. So yeah, can you share where everyone can go to learn more about Dash, Dash Bash, freelancing with Dash and all of the things.

Meryn Hayes (40:39.744)

All the things, yes, yeah. So you can go to our website. So Dash's website is dashstudio.net. And there's a contact form there for freelancers. Or if you have a project, there's a link in there to get in touch with us about work. And then dashbash is dashbash.net. You can find us on Instagram, X, if people are still there.

And so a reminder that the bash is in Raleigh, North Carolina is in person, June 11th through 13th, 2025. And then if anyone wants to continue conversations about what we talked about, easiest way to do that is find me on LinkedIn.

Shannon Mattern (41:23.224)

Amazing. Marin, thank you so much for being here today. It was so fun talking to you. And I'll link up all of those links in the show notes so y'all can go check that out. And yeah, thank you so much for being here.

Meryn Hayes (41:36.65)

Awesome. Thank you so much for having me, Shannon. I really appreciate it.