How Leigh Shifted from Charging by the Hour to Charging by the Project to Create 5-Figure Revenue Months

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In this image, Leigh Scott is discussing how she shifted from charging by the hour to charging by the project to create 5-figure revenue months. Full Text: profitable web designer EPISODE 17 How Leigh Shifted from Charging by the Hour to Charging by the Project to Create 5-Figure Revenue Months with Leigh Scott

Growing your web design business can be simple – you just need a plan.

This week I’m talking with Leigh Scott about creating 5-figure revenue months after charging by the hour!

Leigh is a Web Designer Academy student who started her web design business in 2021 to spend less time at the office and more time with her son. She started by charging by the hour, and after hearing me speak at a summit jumped into Web Designer Academy and we immediately identified pricing as one of her greatest opportunities. After creating a 3-part plan together, Leigh consistently has 5-figure months and is working on expanding her business to new avenues and even growing a team!

“The way I’m thinking of pricing… What is something I think somebody won’t agree to, but if they did agree to it, I would be excited about it?” – Leigh Scott

Key takeaways from my chat with Leigh:

  • It’s okay to start with getting paid by the hour. Leigh did it, and she even did some volunteer work for some non-profits that needed help with their websites. She doesn’t regret any of these as this work helped her gain credibility, build her portfolio, and establish a network. But this is not sustainable in the long run.
  • You are going to get as much results as the effort you put in. It doesn’t matter how many courses you join, how many podcasts you listen to, or how many days of mindset shifting you do. If you do not put in the work, you will not get the result.
  • There is an opportunity cost to undercharging for any period of time, and continuing to work with low-paying clients. Is this opportunity cost something you’re willing to pay?

“You don’t have to learn things the hard way necessarily. You’re still going to have to learn some things the hard way but learn from someone else’s mistakes and try to do it in a few months instead of a few years.” – Leigh Scott

We also talk about how Leigh:

  • Worked on her mindset to make the necessary shifts to raise her prices.
  • Analyzes current projects and client work to identify opportunities to add value and increase pricing.
  • Uses authenticity to effectively communicate with clients and help them see their opportunities.

Episode Transcript

Shannon Mattern: Welcome to the Profitable Web Designer Podcast, where we're all about helping extraordinary web designers like you to stop undercharging over delivering and overworking, and finally create the profitable, sustainable, and scalable web design business you've been dreaming of. I'm your host Shannon Mattern, founder of the Web Designer Academy, where we teach the business side of running a web design business. So if you wanna make a consistent full-time income as a web designer, but you're struggling with things like pricing and boundaries and mindset and marketing and you're just tired of going it alone, well my friend, you're in the right place. But before we dive into this week's episode, I wanna invite you to sign up for our totally free profitable pricing framework training that breaks down five mindset shifts to five x your prices without working five times harder. Just go to and enter your name and email address and I'll send you our proprietary pricing framework that will totally transform what you think about how much you really can charge for web design. So go sign up and then meet me back here for this week's episode. Okay.

Shannon Mattern: Hey there. Welcome back to the Profitable Web Designer Podcast. And today I have a story to share with you about one of our Web Designer Academy students, Leigh, who went from charging by the hour and struggling to meet her revenue goals to charging by the project to create five figure months. So to give you a little bit of background on Leigh and how she came to work with us and how she was really able to create some really mind-blowing results in just 90 days of working with us inside of our program, she attended a summit that I had spoken at, I think it's gonna be a year and a half ago now, and she heard me talking about why hourly billing doesn't work, why undercharging and over-delivering doesn't work because you just don't have time in your day to work with that many clients at that low of a price.

Shannon Mattern: And I was talking about the concept of your minimum baseline revenue, which is a concept we teach inside the Web Designer Academy, which means it's the amount of money that your web design business needs to make every single month to pay yourself first and pay yourself a generous salary that you need to like do life the way that you want, pay your business expenses like your tools, training and mentorship and team if you have team and pay your taxes. And I always say in the Web Designer Academy that like even though we talk about five figure web design projects, we talk about six figure and multi six-figure web design businesses. We are not all about vanity metrics around here, okay? We are all about making sure that you are taking care of you and your family first, creating a profitable, sustainable web design business and positioning yourself to grow your revenue from a secure financial place.

Shannon Mattern: That's the minimum baseline. So we help our students figure out what that number is for them so that they're paying themselves well and paying themselves first and able to meet their other obligations in running their business. So like I said, Lisa saw me speak at a summit for web designers. She joined my email list and then she saw one of my trainings all about money mindset for web designers. And she said to me, she said, I remember listening to that training one day while I was driving and I felt like you were speaking exactly to me. And she said, I got to my parents' house and while I was putting my son to sleep, she went on my website and found our Web Designer Academy application and filled it out because she was like, I need something because this isn't working. And so I got Leigh's application, she applied for our program.

Shannon Mattern: I personally review every single application because if I don't think I can help you, like we get applications from people that are like, I've never worked with a client before and I wanna make $10,000 in the next 90 days. And we're like, that's not what we do . That is not what we do. But we is a perfect example of someone who was undercharging and over-delivering. When she applied from our program, she was getting top-rated clients on Upwork, a freelancer for a higher website, and she knew her hourly pricing wasn't sustainable. She's like doing the math and she's like, what I can create here on this freelancer platform based on how this works is not where I wanna be. But for Leigh investing in a program like the Web Designer Academy was not a snap decision for her. And so she said there was, she took an entire month to think through it all, like, do I really wanna invest in this?

Shannon Mattern: You know, I don't really have the money coming in right now to do it, but I see the possibility. And so Leigh and I had several conversations as she was making her decision and it became clear to me that undercharging was her biggest problem and her biggest opportunity. And I told her, I was like, here's the deal. One of the first things we're gonna do if you decide to work with us before you start on any of our curriculum or any of our strategies together, we're gonna put together and implement a three-part plan for you to increase prices with your current clients and then we'll work on booking new clients at new prices. And so that's what Leigh did. And she, she said immediately her income started to increase because she started valuing herself and her work and asking for higher prices. And she also was afraid that she was gonna lose some clients, but they all agreed to it.

Shannon Mattern: And so Leigh, just after two months of joining us, she shared with me that she had tripled her monthly revenue, almost quadrupled her monthly revenue based on the strategies that we, that we implemented with her. And so I wanna talk to you a little bit about the three part plan and then I have an interview with Leigh. She's so graciously agreed to talk to me last year about her experience. I actually just got to spend a whole entire week with her as part of our next level mastermind that we have for Web Designer Academy students who, who are beyond their first year with us and stay to reach those big next level goals. It's, it's our next level mastermind. And we had an in-person retreat and I got to spend a whole week with her and she's just a brilliant human and I cannot wait for you to hear from her.

Shannon Mattern: But before I share that interview with you, I wanna talk to you about what that three part plan was that we implemented. So if you find yourself hearing Leigh talk and saying, this is me, you can get a taste of how we can support you to transition out of where you're at now to really having a thriving, sustainable, profitable web design business. So the first part of that three part plan was mindset. So before Leigh would even send out that price increase script that we gave her, she had to believe that she was worth it. She had to believe it was possible that people would pay her that much, and she had to be okay with whatever the outcome of the price increase was, meaning she had to be willing to take the risk of losing some low paying clients to make room for some higher paying clients.

Shannon Mattern: And so that's one of those growth moments for a lot of our students that we work with, is what is the opportunity cost of continuing to work with low paying clients? And are you willing to take the risk that they will choose to leave when you raise your prices? And only you can know what your answer to that is. And then you get to identify, okay, well, like what am I thinking? What am I afraid of? How can I get some support around that to get me to the point where I feel good with my decision? I either feel good with, I'm gonna keep these low paying clients because I have a great reason to, or I'm willing to take the risk for the reward on the other side of having the space to book a higher paying client and the belief that I actually can.

Shannon Mattern: So part one's mindset, part two is analysis. So instead of just across the board raising prices for every single one of her clients, like on a certain date, we did a full analysis of her current clients together and we identified opportunities for price increases that made sense for each client. And I say together because you as the business owner and me as a business owner too, we always have blind spots when it comes to our own clients and pricing. And we help our clients identify those blind spots. And we also help our clients figure out how a price increase benefits their clients. It's not just benefiting Leigh and her business. It's like how can she adjust the services that she's doing to create more value and more opportunity for her clients and put a higher price tag on it. Okay? So it's not just like, same services, higher price, I'm raising my prices X percent across the board for all of my clients due to inflation or whatever randomness you hear people talk about.

Shannon Mattern: Not to say that inflation's random, but like that's not a great reason to tell your clients that you're raising your prices. But how can you evaluate each one and figure out how can I add value and present a new offer that is going to show that value and that this price increase is gonna be a no-brainer due to what this, how I've presented this offer. So that's part two is analysis. And part three is authentic communication. So inside of our web designer Academy, we have tons of tools, templates, scripts, and swipe copy. And we have scripts for price increases and how to adapt those scripts to yourself and send out authentic, honest communication, letting clients know of price increases and giving them options for moving forward. So we implemented our three part plan and she said immediately her income started to increase because she started valuing herself and her work and asking for higher prices, and she didn't lose a single client over her price increases.

Shannon Mattern: And so are all of those results typical that if you raise your prices, every single client will just get out their wallet and hand you more money? No, absolutely not. I will not guarantee you that you'll keep every client, if you use our strategies and scripts to increase your prices. Like we don't have control over what our clients do. They are autonomous, independent humans that get to make their own choices. But what I do know is that with our support, we give you the best shot at getting a yes. And we support you through the difficult conversations. And let's be honest, there are some clients that you would not be sad to see go if they chose not to continue working with you after you increased your price. Like, let's be real. So I can't wait for you to hear from Leigh. I can't wait for you to hear her story.

Shannon Mattern: And feel free to head on over to and ask us any questions you have about Leigh's story about the Web Designer Academy, whether or not you think it's right for you, there is an application to work with us as well on that page. If you feel like learning more about working with us is something that resonates with you. So without further ado, here is how Leigh shifted from charging by the hour to charging by the project to create five figure revenue months. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I really, really appreciate it. I just have a list of questions to ask you, and then if we have time left at the end, if there's anything that you wanna talk about, like then have specific help or questions, we can do that too. So tell me a little bit about what your web design business looked like before you joined the Web Designer Academy.

Leigh Scott: Let's see. So I was working in, in corporate America. I had always wanted to do my own thing at some point to start my own business. And, and I thought about doing web design, but I never really took the plunge. I never really had the time to kind of think through what that would look like and make that leap. And then just a little bit of history. So I had my son, my first child in March, 2020, so like right when covid hit. And so that really changed things. I I, you know, I had some time, I, you know, I had three months off, I had maternity leave and everything was happening and terms of covid and the economy and reduced salaries at the time. And so, you know, I was just thinking on my maternity leave, like, you know, that now's the time to, to start maybe doing some freelancing.

Leigh Scott: And because I just, I really enjoyed it. So I started working on some websites for some nonprofits for free, like on volunteer match and helping them out with their websites. And I, and I really enjoyed it, working with them. And, you know, I came back to my, to my corporate job for the rest of 2020. And I still did some freelance work on the weekends and in the evenings just because, I mean, I couldn't go anywhere. I had a newborn, but, you know, it was kind of a fun hobby to keep me entertained on the weekends and the evenings and and so on. And then my son turned one year old and, and we had been trying to figure out childcare and daycare and I wasn't comfortable putting him in daycare yet. So I decided I wanted to stay home with him. And at that time I figured, you know, maybe this is the time when I should really start diving more into doing web design because I could be with him, I could have that flexibility, you know, running my own business that I didn't have before. And so in March, 2021, you know, I, I left my corporate job and then that's when I really started picking up more of the freelance work cause I had more flexibility to do it. So that was a long-winded answer, but I wanted to kinda provide that background.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah, no, that's awesome. Yeah, I want all the details. And so you were getting clients on a, on freelancer sites at the time, if I recall? Yeah,

Leigh Scott: I mean I started working on like volunteer match, just helping some nonprofit, like small nonprofits that needed help with our websites. And I just did it for free at first. And then I went on a, a freelancing website, so Upwork mm-hmm. and I started bidding on some smaller projects. And that's how I originally, that first year got my first clients.

Shannon Mattern: And do you remember how you found the web designer academy?

Leigh Scott: Yeah. So then going in, so that was kind of the background. And then going into finding the Web designer Academy, I started doing freelancing and March and April and I was getting really frustrated because I was, you know, still charging lower prices. And I, you know, I was like, I'm putting in all this time to try to build up my business and I'm just, I wasn't, I mean, it was taking up all my time and, and the revenue just wasn't there or where I wanted it to be. And so I think I had joined the, I think it's called the Simply Profitable Summit,

Shannon Mattern: Simply Profitable Designer Summit. Yep.

Leigh Scott: Yeah. And somehow, I don't know if you spoke at that.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah, yeah.

Leigh Scott: So then I started following you, or I got an email and I got a message about your Facebook Live. It was like the money mindset

Shannon Mattern: Mm-Hmm.

Leigh Scott: Talk that you did. And so I was just like, I mean, this is where I'm at. Like, I'm struggling. I'm, I'm working so hard and I'm not just not bringing in the revenue I feel like I should be in. So I remember listening to that driving one day from, from Atlanta to South Carolina, and I was just like, it felt like you were speaking exactly to me and with what you were saying on that. And so I remember I got to my parents' house in South Carolina and I was putting my son to sleep, and I went on your website and I found the academy. And I, that's how I filled out the application. I was putting my son to sleep, but I was just like, I need this. I need something. Cause this isn't working, ,

Shannon Mattern: I'm so glad that you found me and so glad that you joined. So that was in May, right? That you joined

Leigh Scott: Us? Yeah, that was in May. Mm-Hmm.

Shannon Mattern: August, September, October. So six months. What have been some of your biggest shifts or transformations since joining?

Leigh Scott: Yeah, so immediately, I mean, just after that original workshop, immediately it was the money mindset, like valuing my skills, you know, making sure that I'm, I'm not selling myself short in terms of pricing. And just immediately, even before, you know, I dove into the academy or I joined the academy, I think there was like a month where I was like thinking through, do I wanna invest in this? I don't really have the money coming in to do it. And we had several back and forths and you were answering all my questions, but immediately I can, I mean, just looking at my income, like it started to increase because I, I started valuing myself and, and my work. And then once I joined the academy, I think I joined the, the week we went on vacation and we drove to Florida. It was like a 10 hour drive.

Leigh Scott: And I sat in the backseat with my son and I told my husband, just not talk to me. Cause I was gonna listen to this , listen to this academy. And I listened to like almost all the modules on the way to Florida. And when I got there, I met up with my friend and I just to, I was just telling her all these things like that I'd learned, but I was just stoking it in because I was struggling and I, and I needed, I needed that structure because I mean, coming into it, right? I, I had web, I, I worked in digital in corporate, yeah. Like I worked in digital and marketing for years. That's what I've done. And I've also run a business. And so it was easy coming in to say, okay, I know how to do this and I know how to run a business, but that's not true. Like, you know, I probably could have learned it after several years, like, you know, put everything together and learned everything the hard way. But the Academy really helped me to expedite that by learning from you, learning what you've learned from others in the academy and coaching them, and then having the community in the academy. It just really helped to expedite the growth of my business, even though I had experience, you have that specific experience.

Shannon Mattern: I've been through all of that pain and I'm like, I want you guys to skip over it as much as possible. So I'm really glad that you feel like that you were able to expedite your results and kind of expedite, like putting all the pieces together. Am I right in that, like, when you joined, one of the first things that we did was put together a plan for you to increase prices with certain clients.

Leigh Scott: Yeah, I was expecting I would lose some, but it makes me think, you know, I probably need to raise my prices again because they all agreed to it . But it, it really helped.

Shannon Mattern: I love it that , I love that outcome that you're like, you know, if they go away, it's okay. And then they're all like, oh, no, no, sign me up. So , that's awesome.

Leigh Scott: Yeah, I mean, I just had this one dude who was like, I've worked on some sites for him. I, you know, I, he was one of the lower paying clients and I told him I was, he wanted another site and I was like, I just don't have time. Like I can do it next year. And he's like, well, I don't wanna work with anyone else. And he's like, I just want you to install this theme for me, like a child thing. And I was like, fine. And I told him the price and he's like, okay. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like I, I, I didn't want you to agree to that. So now I'm, I'm thinking like, the way I'm thinking of pricing, and this is just crazy to me, but it's like, what is the craziest thing? Like what is something I think somebody wanna agree to, but if they did agree to it, I would be ha excited about it.

Shannon Mattern: I'm so happy to hear that that is where you are at, where you're just like so confident that like, if they say no, I'm fine with it, but I'm only willing to do it for this price. And yeah, that is, that's a beautiful place, place to be in your business where you're like, I'm kind of in demand, but I can kind of name my price , you know? Mm-Hmm. , I love that. So how much were you charging before you joined versus now? Like what's that price increase look like?

Leigh Scott: Oh gosh. I mean, you know, when I first, I mean I was doing free websites for some nonprofits and I still have them reaching out to me. I wanna get back into doing some, like, some free work. But once I have enough income to support me, and then I can dedicate time to give back to helping some organizations. But right now I just, I can't. But then, you know, some of the, the paid work, I mean we're talking like 20 an hour, like, you know, minimum wage work, which, you know, looking back, it did help me to build up my testimonials, my portfolio, I built a network, so I don't regret it per se, but you know, it just get to the point where I was like, my time is worth more than this. And you know, now, I mean I'm looking at, I'm, I'm working on like $15,000 project, $10,000.

Leigh Scott: I just bid on a job for like, I was like, this is crazy. I'm just gonna bid, I'm interviewing with a company for like 200 an hour. I mean, I don't know if I'll get it, but my prices have definitely gone up and, and I'm trying to focus more on the fixed prices and get my processes down so that I'm not, you know, for those $15,000 projects, they don't get drawn out. Right? And so it becomes, I'm losing money essentially. It's like before we just got on the call, I'm working on a, like a $10,000 project and I'm custom designed it, but I was like, is there a way to just make this faster? So I found a child theme that is very similar in terms of design elements and I'm just gonna install the child, you know, pay the money for the child theme and install it and then reuse those elements and speed up the process for me.

Leigh Scott: And so that's where I'm at now is like, how can I, and that's, you know, you talked about how do I wanna level up in 2022? Yes. So I haven't found a niche yet, so I haven't been able to like, and that's kind of something I wanted to talk to you about, but like, how can I figure out ways to streamline the process for me so that I'm not spending time, like I don't need to custom build the site. There are other tools out there where I can reuse elements and speed up the process for me.

Shannon Mattern: Yes.

Leigh Scott: Or you know, I have a contract and a process in place where I'm not waiting weeks on someone to get me their copy. I need to button those things up.

Shannon Mattern: Yes. And we'll have time to talk about that. And we can also talk about that like separately too, because I do agree, like, and your niche doesn't have to necessarily be so niche to that your starter site is like 90% done. But you can have, when you're thinking about custom design, if you always have this like kind of same framework that you use for as many clients as PO because I mean websites that convert are like very formulaic behind the scenes, right? And it's the front end and the, like, the wallpaper that is what's different, like the design and the branding and the, and that type of thing. Yeah. And so how can you kind of in your mind be like, yep, this is the setup that I'm gonna go with, with, you know, I'm gonna design based on this framework, this kind of like the layout, this design, and I'll customize it to each client, but like, these are the bones, this is the foundation that I'll use for every single one.

Shannon Mattern: And start to really think in terms of like when you're creating that custom design, it has the foundation of this thing that you've already created. I don't know if that's like helpful, but I I do. It's like you do not have to design from scratch and like getting that piece in place and then yes. Like getting your clients to cooperate with you is going to be like a huge level up. So we can talk about that more in depth on a separate call if you wanna like do a milestone call or something so that we can really strategize about what that looks like for you specifically. Are you hitting your minimum baseline revenue consistently?

Leigh Scott: Yeah. Within six months. I mean, September,

Leigh Scott: Yeah, it was within, hold on, let me bring it up. I think I sent you a chart at one point. You did. I had to actually slow down because I was getting to a point where I was burning out and you know, I was trying to scale to a point where I think I need, and we've talked about this some I need to bring in help or I just need to, maybe I can just increase my prices again. But I was, you know, it was growing and I was like, oh, this is awesome. Let's see if it can keep growing. And then I got to a point where I was just like, no, I can't . Like I was getting to like almost 10 a month and then I just can't, like I physically can't do it. And so, you know, now I've, I've kind of, it's around, I mean, around eight a month is where I'm at, where I, it feels like it's good. Easy, not easy, but you know, it's workable for me.

Shannon Mattern: I would love, but yeah, set up a separate call with you to kind of dig into that and figure out like, what do we need to shift, what do we need to do? Like of course we wanna like first increase your price, like, cause that's the easiest way to lighten up your schedule and make more money. But then is it like getting you booked out instead of accepting work? Like to start now getting it booked out and then what does it look like to bring someone on and how do you get so systematized that it makes sense for you to have a person and like, what are those things that you're gonna have that person do versus like what you are doing? Because it all depends on keeping the projects moving.

Leigh Scott: Yeah.

Shannon Mattern: Like if you're high someone, they need to have something to do. Right.

Leigh Scott: Yeah. Back to your original question, I mean, you know, once I went full-time with it, March, april, may, so after three months I hit my minimum. Yeah, no, may, yeah, about a month, a month or two after joining the academy, I, my, I mean I hit my minimum.

Shannon Mattern: That's so awesome. Just because it's like, oh, switch on the mindset of my value. Like let's just start charging what this is. Yeah, I love that.

Leigh Scott: Yeah.

Shannon Mattern: What part of the program has been the most valuable to you?

Leigh Scott: I mean, I'm just thinking there's so many different aspects of the program that have been valuable. But like, I've enjoyed listening, just listening to the, your trainings and I've listened to several of 'em over and over. Like, I play it while I drive. The only way I'm able to like digest things from an audio perspective is if I'm driving because, so I'm not distracted. and I, and then I, I go between my parents house in South Carolina and my house in Atlanta. And so I've li or, and so that's how I've listened to the majority of your training. So that, and then the, like, the customized feedback that you've given me, either on the strategy calls or like where I've submitted questions, those have been super valuable. I, I've listened to those over and over and just kinda soaked them up. And then, so those are the most.

Leigh Scott: But then also having the, the community has been great. You know, I've connected individually with several of the people in the group about, you know, getting their input or their recommendations. So that's been great. I mean, you know, people will just, you know, I'll buy somebody a Starbucks so they'll buy me a Starbucks and set up time. Like, so that's, that's been really cool. And just having the, you know, it's just crazy. I, I thought maybe joining this group, there'd be some competition amongst the people and the academy. That there's none, like everyone just wants to help everybody, which is kind of weird in a way. But, you know, everyone's going. And I think that's kind of how you structured it, where people to go after their niche so that there's not as much competition.

Shannon Mattern: And I think it's like, I, I mean I vet everybody that comes in and if I'm getting a vibe, like I'm not approving an application . Cause I don't wanna mess up our balance. Like our delicate, not delicate, but like our, just our community is. So that's what I want. I don't like, so I appreciate that has been supportive for you. So what would you say to someone who is considering joining the program? Like, you know, someone like you back, back when, when you're just like, oh, this is a stretch. Like I really wanna do it. But

Leigh Scott: The short answer is it's worth the investment. Totally worth the investment. That if you value your time and you value yourself what you should, that this is worth the investment. And, but I guess the caveat too is like you're gonna get as much out of it as that you put into it. Like you can't just join and expect your revenue to increase because you've listened to podcasts, right? Like , you have to be com. You have to be committed to putting into it and soaking in what, you know, the community and Shannon are giving you. But you also have to equally put into the program what's needed. And if you do that, there's no reason you shouldn't see a return on your investment.

Shannon Mattern: I love that. Yes, you can listen to all the things and have your mindset shifted all day long. And if you don't actually like go do the thing, like nothing's gonna change. So I Yeah, you're like, you're like the epitome of like implement what you learn and I love it. So it's, that's like my dream life to have someone like you in the program who's just like, I'm gonna listen, absorb, take action, ask for help, connect with other people. And it, it really is people like you that make this program like amazing. So thank you for your contribution to it as well because every single person that contributes makes it better. So I really, really appreciate that. So we talked a little bit about your next level. What kind of support do you think you need to get there?

Leigh Scott: I mean, honestly I feel like you've provided all the tools that I need to, to standardize. What I'm struggling with right now though is, is being able to narrow down a niche and so that I can implement those processes so that I can standardize and, you know, I've done the market research. I, I, I know like who I would love, who I think to be fun to work with, but I don't know if that's who I should work with. And that's what I'm still working on is figuring out who is my ideal customer and how do I get there so that I can standardize. You've provided the resources to show me like if how to niche down to a specific type of customer in a specific industry. But I'm trying to figure out how that looks like for me.

Shannon Mattern: Well, and I think too, and I'm glad you brought that up and I know we're at time, but, and, and I'll say this quickly, I think that, and in the new curriculum that I'm rolling out starting in January, which I'll, you'll get access to cuz you're only six months in. I'm looking at like, what are some other ways, and I think it'll be kind of like my like case study, my like lab rat for this too is like, what are some other ways that you can really standardize and streamline when you don't have, I work with photographer, like the client doesn't always have the same need, but we can still systematize and streamline. And so we don't have to choose industry specific or even a, like a site specific or a tool specific niche. If you've built up this clientele that's very diverse, how can we still get you the benefit of systematizing and streamlining without having to choose a niche and build up a clientele in that niche if that's going to make business harder for you.

Shannon Mattern: Because it's like, well, what do you really want? Do you wanna have like an impact in this one specific area? Awesome, let's do that. Or do you want a sustainable, flexible business and you're willing to work with like different types of clients? Awesome. Let's do that too. So I think there's, there's a way to go about it both ways. And for you, I think it's just a matter of like, I already have clients coming in, I'm already like making money. Let's figure out how to like, make business easier and more flexible. And if I like that, then I don't need to to necessarily go after this specific niche unless I want to, not because I have to, to get my processes down.

Leigh Scott: Yeah. I mean that I would love to be your lab rat.

Shannon Mattern: Awesome. Okay. . Yeah. So I already, like, I have the curriculum already outlined in everything. Like we're gonna, like when I roll it up to you guys, it'll be like refining your dream client refining this, but then for like, when I like put it into the academy, it'll be like tweak to kind of take some of that industry specific focus off of it because you're not the only one, you know, you're not the only one that's like, I just wanna get a client and start making money and it doesn't necessarily need to be this specific niche that I would love to work with. And I'm like, all right, let's do it.

Leigh Scott: And one thing I I know about myself is I like the diversity of my clients. Maybe I'm just making things harder for myself because it would be easier to choose a nation, choose a solution and just kind of like roll that out. But I like the challenge of like working with a new client and understanding their needs and understanding their market and understanding what they need and building a solution for them. And it just keeps me like stimulated Yeah. By doing that.

Shannon Mattern: And so it's like, how can, where are the bottlenecks in what you're doing now and how can we eliminate as many of those as possible while you still get to keep the excitement and the, you know? Yeah. Cuz like, I, I can totally relate. It lights me up to solve a problem if I was just churning out widgets. I'm gonna get bored. I need to dig in and fix some things and create something new and solve problems. And that's, yeah, that's what keeps me passionate. I'd love to like, over the next six months figure out like, how do we make this work for you?

Leigh Scott: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Have I answered the, I mean, have I provided you enough content for

Shannon Mattern: Your Oh, totally. Yes.

Leigh Scott: Interview. Thank

Shannon Mattern: You so much for all of your answers. I know you filled out the survey too. I can't thank you enough. Your contribution to the program just as a, as a community member and being willing to ask questions has helped so many other people. And then also you like taking action and showing them like what's possible when you do get outta your comfort zone and just do it. Like, yeah. So thank you.

Leigh Scott: I also wanted to just, I mean, I think another important thing for people to consider when considering the program is like, even if you do have experience in this space, and we touched on this before, but even if you do have experience in this space, joining your program is going to help eliminate all of those. You don't, you're not gonna have to learn things the hard way necessarily. You're still gonna have to learn some things, things the hard way, but like learn from someone else's mistakes, and try to do it in a few months instead of in a few years. You know? So that's what I would recommend.

Shannon Mattern: Well, thank you. Yeah, there's the, there's the opportunity cost of waiting, there's the opportunity cost of undercharging for years and just life and time and all of those things. So I appreciate that you said that. Cause I, I definitely, I'm like a touch the stove kind of person, so I gotta like, you can tell me, but I'm still gonna like go touch the stove and then I'll be like, oh, okay, yeah, it was hot. Should not have done that. . And then I get to distill all that into, of course. Sweet. Well thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Have a good have a good rest of your day and weekend.

Leigh Scott: All right, you too. Bye.

Shannon Mattern: Bye.

Shannon Mattern: That's it for this week's episode and we've linked up all of the resources we talked about today in the show notes. So you can go to to get your hands on those. And we'll be back next week with another episode designed to help you uplevel the business side of your web design business. So be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you're listening. And if you like today's episode, we would be so grateful if you would share it with all your web designer friends. And if you're feeling extra generous, we'd love for you to leave us a writing and review so we can get in front of even more web designers and help them transform their businesses and their lives. So simply scroll up on this episode in your podcast player and tap that, leave a review link or go to and I'll take you to the right spot. Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you right here next week. Bye.

Speaker 4: This podcast is part of the sound advice FM network. Sound advice, FM Women's Voices amplified.

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