#154 – Strategic Branding That Pays Off

Speaker 1 (00:46.958)

Hi, Erica. I'm good. How are you? The waiting room is filling up with people. I'm going to let them all in here in a minute.

How are you?

I am good.

Speaker 2 (01:00.354)

That is so exciting.

Yeah, any questions?

No questions for me. I was going to pull it. I took a few screenshots before we did. The new site. I need to find them.

Beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:15.798)

No rush. my gosh. I'm seeing names that I don't recognize in the waiting room. That's so cool. And Alicia's here. Yay.

Yay!

Speaker 1 (01:29.976)

So fun.

So fun.

Speaker 2 (01:36.856)

because I was in the wrong folder.

Speaker 1 (01:44.3)

All right, it's noon. I'm going to let all these people in and we're going to do it.

Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:53.504)

Well, hello everyone. Welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm so excited to have everybody here for our Web Designer Academy brand reveal. I love seeing so many names of people I know and people I don't know yet. Web Designer Academy students, colleagues.

Yeah, this is really, really cool. And I'm so excited to share everything with you today that we've been working on for the past, I don't know, six months. So the way this is gonna work today is you can kind of think of this as like you're sitting in on a podcast episode that we're recording that Erica and I are recording together.

that was like the intention. I was like, I really want to share with everyone, like this journey and this transformation we have been on as we have, as we embarked upon, this project. And I was like, we'll make a podcast about it. And then I'm like, how about we just invite everybody to come to the podcast and we do a little show and tell. and if you're listening to this on the podcast, you can just come check out our website and see.

some of the things that we are talking about. looks like you all have found the chat. I see that you are here. I'll ask you all to just stay muted, but feel free to be on camera or off. We welcome all of your questions. And so the way today is going to work, A, it's super casual. So, you know, we,

We welcome your questions at any time. And we're gonna kind of share with you the journey. And I also have some giveaways that I'm gonna do for those of you who joined us live. I'm excited to share about some special promotions we have to celebrate our brand reveal and some bonuses and just some new ways we have of working together. So I'll share all of that at the end. So.

Speaker 1 (04:21.333)

Let's just dive on in. I'm going to ask Erica Nash to go ahead and introduce yourself as I continue to let people in the room. Erica, tell everyone who you are and what you do in your dual role here at the Web Designer Academy.

Yeah, for sure. So hello, my name is Erica Nash and I do have a dual role here. I am on Shannon's team and so I'm her client success coordinator. So I help Shannon in just the day-to-day operations of Running Web Designer Academy. But my biggest...

responsibility is taking care of our students. And so working with them and answering their questions and making sure that, you know, their needs are being met and they're understanding our curriculum and reaching their goals and things like that. So I support there. And I also own a creative studio called Riot Creative Studio. And I am the person who did Shannon's rebrand. And so

That is, that's my dual role here and it is literally the best ever.

Well, thank you so much for being here. Also shout out to Lee Scott, who is here in the audience. She will come up several times in this session today because she's the strategy and the brains behind our customer journey, the site architecture, a lot of the...

Speaker 1 (06:00.138)

data-driven decisions that we made with not just like how everything looks, but how it feels and how it flows and you know, what we're offering. So shout out to Lee Scott, shout out to Phyllis Nichols, who is our podcast producer and make sure that the Profitable Web Designer podcast gets into your earbuds every single week and sounds amazing. So Phyllis, so cool to have you here. You know, the work we do together is just

so fun and so important and like part of this story. And also Alicia St. Germain, who is my friend, my mindset coach, my person to help me through making just even embarking upon like, why would I create a customer journey that is an American Ninja Warrior course? And what do I have to do to be ready to tear that down? So Alicia has been a huge

part of that. the reason I wanted to, other than just, I was so excited to share this journey with you. The other reason I wanted to invite you all here is that from getting to sit on the other side of this project as the client and receiving all of the value that I've been able to create as a result of working with Erica, working with Lee, working with Phyllis.

Working with Alicia, working with Sarah G, who I don't know if she's here, but she's a copywriter who has done a lot of our copy.

I always say you're not selling websites. You're selling outcomes and results. And sitting on the other side of the table as the client, I wanted to share with you like what the outcomes and results I am experiencing as part of going through this whole website redesign process. Because it is so much more than just my website looked one way before and now it looks different. And like,

Speaker 1 (08:05.358)

the vibe and the aesthetics and whatever. Of course it's an improvement, but how the business is operating on the backend is radically different. And I am already experiencing results from that that are going to continue to compound and help me create more time and money in the future. And I wanted to say that to all of you so that you can truly understand the value that you bring.

to your clients beyond the pixels on the screen and the deliverable and the delivery of that. So that is like really my biggest reason for inviting all of you here to hear this. Hear me when I say this as like the client, it is amazing. So we have no slides today. Like I said, it's a super casual.

conversation. And, you know, where I really kind of wanted to start is the backstory of like, why I even decided to invest time and money and resources into this project, some of our goals for it, the process that Erica led me through, which was amazing, our new brand pillars, and, you know, the transformation from old to new.

the messy middle of the project and how we navigated some of those conversations, our decision to rebrand in public where I'm like, yep, you're gonna see some old branding and some new branding at the same time. And that's fine with me and the mindset I had to adopt to be able to do that results and outcomes so far. then just giving stuff away to you guys, answering your questions and just celebrating.

Erica, anything to add before I dive into the backstory? and I would love you all to find the chat and just tell me a little bit like about you. Where are you? Where are you listening from? how long have you been a web designer? What do you do? I saw that Genevieve's here from Paris because she says she's nosy. I love that. I'm so glad that you're here. I want to know where you all are coming from and,

Speaker 1 (10:33.196)

where you're watching from and what you do, because I'm nosy like that too. So anything you want to add, Erica?

I'm just really excited to share all of the things that we have been doing on the back end and just, think, you you and I, we're living this day to day and maybe forget that not everybody knows all of the things that we have chatted through and done and experimented with. So I'm excited to share it all.

Yeah. for those of you watching us live, Erica has this really cool neon sign on her wall that says shatter glass ceilings. can't see the shatter in the camera view, but like, I think our first call, I think you maybe had just hung that sign up the day before. And you had also at our next level mastermind retreat just a couple months prior decided.

to officially open the doors to Riot Creative Studio. And our first call of like, okay, we're doing this. Like I saw that sign on your wall and I was like, if that's not a sign that this is the right move, I don't know what is because that's kind of why we exist at the Web Designer Academy. I mean, I know it's your brand's

brand statement, but it's definitely ours here at the Web Designer Academy too. It's not explicit, but it's definitely implicit. that was a sign in. Also thank you to all of our WDA Web Designer Academy family members who are here watching. This is truly for you. I mean, really. So just to give you a little bit of backstory, the Web Designer Academy started back in 2016.

Speaker 1 (12:26.126)

It is 2025. So it has undergone several design iterations, all done by me. I am a, I'm gonna put web designer in air quotes. I'm not a graphic designer. I'm definitely more of like developer. And I just DIY everything all along the way. And it was good enough because, you know, we've had a very successful business of me just like moving fast, breaking things, doing it myself.

and it worked until it stopped working. And I was really experiencing some challenges as a business owner in delegating. And Alicia can attest to the fact that that's not all logistical challenges. There's definitely some mindset challenges there that we've worked through, but also logistical challenges in the fact that like all of the...

brand style guide and everything just lived in my head. Plus the fact that I bought a DIY, like a template on Creative Market. And then I applied that because I'm like, I'm not a designer. gonna buy someone else's design. I applied that template across my website. Not well, I would say for my standards, but good enough to like move forward.

but it wasn't operational across all pieces of my brand. And I struggled with making every use case and dimension and slides and podcast cover art and thumbnails and just all of the literally a hundred pieces of flair that you need when you're doing a brand, making them all work, be cohesive. They never were.

I was like, good enough, let's just get it out the door. And then when it comes time to actually say, I can't be the one doing all of this stuff because I'm at capacity outsourcing and trying to even like, like impart what to do to someone else. It was just impossible. So what got me here, won't get me there. Like I have a really.

Speaker 1 (14:49.826)

big vision for this business. And as much as I love building, like tinkering with my website, it delights me. I had so much fun on this project. I think it has to be like my retirement project from ever touching my website again, because I have such a big vision for what we're doing here that I can't be doing those things anymore. And so I was experiencing the pain of

being the holder of all of that. So Genevieve says, you're not a web designer. I am a web designer. had web design clients. I just don't consider myself a graphic, like a brand designer, like the way Erica is a brand designer. Like whenever I did web design, I would partner with people to like do that part. And then I would apply that to the website, build out the automations, the customer journey, all of that stuff.

But when it's your own stuff, it's so hard to like see the forest for the trees. One, and also I just need not be doing that anymore. So that was my experience. Eric has been on the team for three years. I mean, you saw this happening. What was your impression of like where

the brand was holding us back. Our current way of doing things was holding us back.

Yeah, I mean, I would say time was the area where we were. We were leaking time everywhere. Yeah. And and like you said, you know, it was just challenging to put things together. And and as a leader, I was seeing how difficult it was for you to like pass things off because things weren't sort of standardized or written down anywhere or whatever. And then that's like a catch 22 because you didn't

Speaker 2 (16:54.158)

necessarily have the time to put those things in a standardized way or write them down or whatever to share them. And so that was just really challenging. then also, I know that a rebrand is a... That's a massive undertaking. And so you also have to be willing to think through, do I have the time to actually do a rebrand? And again, it just kind of is like a catch-22.

and it sets you up for success, but you have to be willing to be in that messy middle for a little while. Something that you said, I wrote this down because I wanted to get it right, but there's a quote from James Clear who wrote Atomic Cabots that I think really applies for this. And he says, don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. And I just think that that is so good and is so applicable to this because

the way that we have built the brand has now created the capacity for you to be able to reach that bigger vision. And before, I'm just not sure that that was possible with all the pieces and parts that were kind of in all the places.

Yeah, it for sure wasn't. And I want you all who are here listening or listening to this on the replay, you have clients or potential clients that are out there in the exact same situation as me. They might have something that's gorgeous that is not functional or operational for them. And so when you hold yourself back from reaching out or connecting, because you're like,

they already have a website, they don't need me. You make that decision for them. It's such a missed opportunity to connect with them on a completely different way on how a very intentional system for leading someone through a brand process like Erica did with me and all of the like

Speaker 1 (19:09.26)

I don't know, constraints we put in, constraints are like criteria that we put in place for here are the problems that I'm having and here's how this, if I'm gonna embark upon this, these are the problems that need to be solved by this because otherwise it's not worth it. It's not worth going through putting in the time, effort and energy to do a rebrand if it's just gonna look different at the end.

Like it had to be more than just looking different. And that's what you all bring to your clients when you think about it and approach it differently. that was, that was really like the backstory. So Erica says that our next level retreat that she's finally going to.

You know, was kind of like her, the thing that came out of it for her, the big bold move. She had been working with clients doing graphic design for a long time, but to like open up the studio. And then I think I like, she was like, my website's done. look at her website. I'm like, okay. Like I've always known Erica as a designer, like being on the team, she came into the web designer Academy to grow her business. And then I hired her.

And then I read the sales page for your service. And I'm like, she's talking about me. Like now's the time I was looking back at my notes. was like the morning of Christmas Eve, but I'm like, what if I embarked upon this project? And then I think I messaged you and I was like, Hey, and it was probably kind of out of the blue.

Well, it was because at the retreat, I remember we were all, it was after I had said that, you know, like I wanted to really lean into this and just like go for it. And we were standing in the kitchen and we were making lunch and you were standing next to me and you said, I want to rebrand the Web Designer Academy, but I see that as like maybe a 2026 project.

Speaker 1 (21:19.694)

And so I was Stephen said 2026 on them.

Yeah, so I was like, amazing, like, that's cool. Whenever you're ready, you know, like, obviously, I'll be ready to do that too. And so that was like not even on my radar. So when you sent that message, it truly was out of the blue. And I was like, okay, like, yeah, let's do this. And here we are.

And then of course, like we couldn't do it without Lee Scott, who's here with us today. We've been working with Lee's company Zainutain consulting for almost two years now. I feel like it's been longer than that. what they like, we've been working with them on conversion rate optimization, but it's so much more than that. It's analyzing our customers.

needs, desires, their behavior on our website, measuring, like testing out different, you know, workshops, offers, you know, different ways of structuring things. What levers can we pull to like just make people feel so comfortable and excited to come and work with us? And so Lee and her team have been gathering that

data and information. And, you know, then when I was like, okay, hey, like, I think it's, think now at this point, I'm seeing how our actual like branding is holding us back. I'm also starting to see how I have put up the American Ninja Warrior course of a customer journey to protect myself from all of the fears that we all

Speaker 1 (23:09.674)

experience around if I receive money from people, then what is my responsibility to them, which is what we coach on inside of the Web Designer Academy all the time, but I also need to be coached on it. And that's why I'm friends with Alicia. And she comes to our retreats and she's she helps me through all of that stuff. And how many like walls I had up and like

you had to like go through the maze and get the key and unlock this door and then go this way. And it might look like on the surface, like all of that's haphazard and intentional. And I could probably justify that as like, that's just me moving fast and, you know, not having a lot of time. you know, the being unintentional could totally be just written off as like, I'm really busy and I just need to get this stuff out the door. But

I don't think that that is really truly what it was. so in working, it just all became clear. it is, I'm, I am a different person than the person who built this website. And now we get to tear it down to the ground and rebuild it for who we are today and where we're going. And

but from a data driven place, not a hypothetical like, I think this maybe might work. It's Lee is like, here is what is happening with the data. Here's what people who find you and join within the first 30 days say. Here's what people who find you and join within the first 90 days say. Here's what people who take six months to a year to two years, and here's what they needed and all of that. so.

With all of those things, it was time.

Speaker 1 (25:04.27)

And Lee, if you have anything to add, feel free to not to put you on the spot. I know I didn't like invite you to prepare, but if you have anything to pop into the chat or share, we would love any of your insights as well. But again, I say all of this to say your clients go through this too. And you can lead them through a process that makes them feel

I don't know that like takes them to where they are now and where they're going, which kind of leads me back to like, when you and I talked, Erica, you were like, I think one of the goals of this project should be that we don't change this branding for five years. You want to tell me more about your reason for that?

Yeah, I think that the biggest one is that I wanted us to land somewhere that just felt really good. Like the word home came up a lot for us in this project. So I wanted us to land somewhere that really felt like home, that was really going to allow us to gather some data and make data-driven decisions. And so if we're constantly changing things, then we can't do that.

And so based on all of the work that we have done with Lee and her team over the past, however long it's been, how terrible would it be if we just willy nilly started changing, started changing our branding and like kind of threw a wrench into all of the hard work that they've done. And so it felt like, it felt like that was an inappropriate amount of time for us to just be really solid.

make some decisions and then be just like very confident in the decisions that we have made and remove the decision fatigue that comes with design. And so if we're able to land somewhere really solid and we know we're not changing this for the next five years, then it just removes that option from any sort of like, I don't know, any...

Speaker 2 (27:21.122)

door that we might walk through, any shiny object, anything that might come about when you're, you know, in the messy middle and trying to make decisions about your business. Sometimes it comes out, maybe it's my branding. We're removing that from the equation. So that's kind of where that came from.

I love that constraint. Like that's no longer on the table to like we've intentionally like cleaned that piece up. And now it's not a variable in any experiments that we, that we do going forward with how much time and capacity it was soaking up before. I'm like, get out of my way. can't wait to see like what we can do. And that's no longer a task.

on our list. So what were some other goals that we identified for the project?

Yeah, so and of course, you know, we wanted our community to feel really good about about the overall brand. So that was definitely like a top of mind for us. But thinking about it through thinking about it through the lens of like functionality and how we wanted to make sure that this was not just a brand that looks good. We wanted it to actually help you reach your goals. One thing in particular that will always be like

top of mind for me when I think about this is saving you time. And so how are we going to save you time? And there were a number of ways that we did that. There were a number of decisions that I made in the design process that allowed us to sort of systemize and what is the word? Basically create a modular system so that it was really, really easy for you to implement and use moving forward.

Speaker 2 (29:22.606)

And so you make a lot of slide decks. And one thing that you were like, I need to save time, like making these slide decks, they can't take me the hours and hours and days that I'm spending on these slide decks. And so you wanted to reduce the amount of time you spent on a slide deck by 25%. And I would argue that we've like blown that out of the water. I I was thinking too. Yeah, so.

think it's 75%.

Speaker 2 (29:50.326)

So those were really top of mind. How can we first get you really, really confident in what we're doing and how to use it? And how can we sort of create this formulaic response to design so that it removes the decision fatigue from your plate?

Yeah, and notice that we didn't say enroll five new students a month in the Web Designer Academy as like a goal for the brand. Like that's not the brand's job. That's like our job, you know? And so the brand's job is to like free me up to do all of the things that I know that we know from the data lead to that.

like creating awesome podcast content. Like it is a pivotal piece in our customer journey. The work that we do with Phyllis, almost everyone's like, yeah, I heard you on the podcast. They either heard me on the podcast or they heard me speak at an event. Sometimes people stumble upon us with SEO. We're working on optimizing that. see opportunity. Also, someone was just like, just chat GPT told me to come to your website. I'm like, that's amazing. Like, so.

you know, those are the things that I get to shift spending time on. And then we measure the impact of how that affects enrollments, revenue, income. we think Lee said in the chat through this entire project, I love how Shannon and Erica you stated, help guide their decisions. But what really stands out is that they never lose sight of the people behind the numbers.

their guiding stars, meeting people where they're at and providing a roadmap based on what their goals are. And I think that really shines through in this redesign. Thank you, Lee. And I would also just say back to you as a conversion rate optimization person who is very data-driven, that's also your core thing that you do so well. You're not just like numbers for the sake of numbers. It's really about like,

Speaker 1 (32:04.482)

the people behind the numbers too. And that's why I wanted to work with your company because it's not just like, who can, like, let's just shove as many people through this funnel as possible. We don't care. Like what happened? It's not that type of a thing. So I just really, really appreciate that. So all of these things that I'm saying, like, so just very specifically, I'm spending way less time on slide decks.

I'm able to say yes to so many more things because it's not like, my gosh, that's going to take me like a week to put together at that presentation. It's going to take a day. There are so many, I have so much more time. Like I don't know how to even explain it. And Erica even said, like, she wanted to make it so that the brand was functional for me. The ultimate goal is that I don't touch any of this and that.

The brand is functional for anyone who is supporting us. That we have our style guide, we have our modular design system built, which we do, and it is so fun, like with the new website, that anybody that comes in to support us understands the rules of the brand, how to use every element. There aren't so many elements that need to be.

used in different ways and it has been transformational already in so many different ways.

And I'm the other thing that I said to Lee, like we launched our website last launched. I'm going to put that in quotes. Like we took our website live last week, our webs. Let me take that back. Our website was already live. We applied the new design to our already live website last week because I wanted to, what I did not want to do is like have a whole big, like we're going to hold everything back and then.

Speaker 1 (34:18.156)

like launch it all at once and go from old brand to new brands, like in a day and have this like whole thing. I'm like, that is so much pressure. And I want to be able to start experiencing the benefits sooner. So I'm like, the first thing we're doing is slides before the website's even done. I have so many presentations. I want new slides. I don't care if they don't match my website.

we put a little banner at the top that's like brand refresh and progress, take a peek behind the scenes at what we're doing. And I'm like, let's just go because nobody's paying that much attention that they're gonna be like, it needs to be this whole big thing. So what are your thoughts on that, Erica?

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think as business owners, we do put so much pressure on the branding. We put pressure on the branding to bring people in and all of that stuff. And sure, like, absolutely. Like it is capable of bringing people in and, you know, helping convert or whatever, but not so much that like, you know, you can't have a little bit of a messy middle as you transition. But I remember in our strategy call,

when we first started, asked you if you had any thoughts or plans about how you might want to launch this. And I said something about, you know, do you want to have like a big like reveal and like a launch day? And you were like, no, that sounds awful. And I totally agree. And I think that the way that we've done it honestly has been really

I think transformational for just like the whole process because anytime you launch a brand there's going to be a period of fine-tuning. There's going to be gaps that are made known just like when you have a website and you take it live and you have a QA period. There's kind of a bit of a QA period for a brand too because once it gets implemented there I can almost guarantee every single time you implement a new brand there's going to need to be at least one color that's added.

Speaker 2 (36:37.77)

There is, and it's probably going to be like, I needed a lighter color for this. And so it's just when you start to put it on the things that you're actually going to use it on, you see those types of things. And so by rolling it out slowly, we were able to really fine tune things so that when we did get to the modular pieces of the website, we were moving and grooving much faster than we would have been if we were like trying to do all of

Also, I don't know that we could have done all the things because there's just a lot. And I think that that would have really taken even more of our time than likely. I think that that would have just been like counterproductive to the time that we were trying to save, I guess. So yeah.

Yeah. And, know, I'm just sitting here thinking about your cook, those of you who are here and your clients and how, you know, we can get into perfectionism as business owners and your clients can get into perfectionism and they can get into like, we have to have everything done and perfect for this big reveal. And every single word has to be perfect. And we, as web designers, and I know I did too, back in the day, like get

bought into that whole thing of like, you know, this project is like,

I don't know, it has to launch perfectly, right? It's the right thing, it has to launch perfectly. And I remember saying one of the things I said to Erica, was like, this has to be sustainable for a project that's sustainable for me to contribute to because I have a business to run and nothing is going to change about how we're running this business. We're still gonna do all of our open enrollments and launches the same way we're still doing.

Speaker 2 (38:13.102)

Great thing, yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:38.794)

everything that's on the calendar is staying on the calendar. And I often see business owners pausing their whole entire business and not selling anything new and waiting on this website and just delaying their future income and results because they put everything on pause, close it all down, go behind the scenes, do this whole rebrand project, put so much pressure on

And

the leadership that you as the designer can provide to your clients as you guide them throughout the process of a redesign or a rebrand and helping them understand why it's important to do it sustainably and in phases and getting feedback and rolling things out slowly and why it's in everybody's best interest and to take that leadership role instead of like falling into the

your customer's perfectionism. I know I've coached our web designer academy members on having those difficult conversations with their clients when their clients are stuck in revisions purgatory because they're in this perfectionism mode. And how do you, as the designer, like rise above that and be a leader and guide them through it? That's a whole nother level of value that you add to

the client relationship and that's kind of the system that like, that was one of the things I told Erica was important. And she was like, of course I got you. I have a system for that. So do you want to share more about like your brand system and like how we work together and how you really led me through that? And then we can also talk about, answer Lashay's question about like the modular brand that you mentioned earlier.

Speaker 2 (41:04.108)

Yeah, for sure. Do you want me to go through like examples? Like, do you want to walk through the actual process or just like high level what the brand system sort of is?

Do you mean like examples of like how we did it with like pictures of our stuff? Yes, let's show, show, like show. So we did this whole brand case study. If you want to actually like see Mine and Erica's actual real-time conversations, I'll put a link to that in the chat and I'll tell that to you too. I think it's just.

Yeah, I have all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 1 (41:41.708)

webdesignerecademy.com forward slash brand refresh, brand dash refresh. You can get the full case study there and like you'll see it's real time this whole process, but this will be like kind of the Cliff Notes version for those of you that don't want to like listen to hours of mine and Erica's conversation.

It's literally hours. It's good stuff though. Yeah. So I'll kind of walk through sort of so you can see visually just the story of our project together. And then we can go from there if I get on any tangents and bring me back. So this is where we started. This is the first mood board that I put together for Shannon.

This was after we had a strategy call. And one of the things Shannon mentioned earlier, my light back here that says shatter glass ceilings, one of the things that came out of the strategy session that we had together was how Shannon was like, you know, I do, there is like a little bit of a, I have a bit of a rebellious streak. Like somebody is going to, you know, somebody says that I can't do something. I'm going to be like, watch me. Like,

watch me go do that thing. And so this came up a lot during our conversation. And when I designed this mood board, just a little bit of backstory, this was after the Super Bowl. So I'm not a huge football fan, but my husband is. So I was in the room, the Super Bowl was on, but I do like the commercials. And there was a Nike commercial that featured just like these incredible female athletes.

it, I don't know, it linked something together with like this idea of like watch me and this rebellious streak. And so I was really inspired by that. And so whenever I am working with a client, after we have the strategy session, I really like to create a conceptual theme for the brand. And basically what this does is this helps us to

Speaker 2 (43:48.654)

tell a story in words and phrases and pictures and ideas that already exist. So Shannon already has the framework for whatever conceptual theme that it is that I am designing. And so once we land on a conceptual theme, then that helps us to, it's just kind of like a guiding star, it's like a little bit of a roadmap so that as we are designing things, it's like, okay,

does this go with the conceptual theme? Is this in line with what we have decided is the direction that we're going? And so that's what we're trying to do here. We're trying to land on sort of a conceptual theme and mood and color palette and all of that for the design direction. And so this was the first one that I sent and I knew that it was risky. So I just want to put that out there that I knew that this was going to be really stretchy for Shannon, but it is my job as the designer.

to not hold back on ideas simply because they might be stretchy. And that means that I have to put my ego aside and be okay when they are on the other side going, I don't know, or this isn't the one, or this is the one, or whatever, because it's not about me, right? And so I knew that this was gonna be stretchy, but when Shannon and I talked, we agreed that we were going to be totally open.

to re-imagining what the Web Designer Academy was. And so I had a couple of conceptual themes in my back pocket and I decided to go with the stretchier one first. And just, we'll see what happens. We're all about experimenting. And so we did that. So this was the first one. This was the color palette that I presented. And right off the bat, so Shannon and I communicated.

I'm to say, Phyllis and Alicia, what's wrong with that color palette?

Speaker 2 (45:45.966)

So Shannon and I communicate a lot through Loom. So I sent her a Loom video explaining all of my decisions, walking her through this color palette. She responds and kind of goes through the same thing. And one of the first things that...

yeah, Heather, what's wrong with this color palette?

Because I don't live in Ohio, this was not even top of mind, but she was like, I don't know if I can do this because blue and yellow are Michigan colors.

That silly, but it's true.

And that's what she said. It's so silly, but it's true. She was like, ignore that. I can get over it. But here's the thing. I'm not sure. I believe in you, Shannon, but I'm not sure that you could have gotten over it. Not at least in a way where every single time you looked at it, that's what you thought about. I immediately, I was like, okay, no, that's out. Like this whole color palette is out and we're going to go in a different direction because in no way.

Speaker 2 (46:43.596)

Do I want any client ever to be just like, meh, meh about any piece of it? And because that like a little bit of ick existed from the very beginning, like that would just continue to grow. So immediately already I knew that like this color palette was changing, even though Shannon was like willing to just work with it. I was like, no, we're not doing that. So then I shared and obviously our conversation

Was about this whole thing not just the color palette, but then I shared this sort of idea that I could see Web designer Academy almost as like this editorial bullpen where we all come together and it's just these fierce women doing really cool things and just like making the life of their dreams and Shannon was like this is amazing and this really scares me

And she was like, I can see it. I am willing to do this, but I'm going to need you to hold my hand. And so same thing. Like immediately I was like, no, we're not doing this because if, if that is, there's a difference between being stretched and being scared. And this was more than being stretched. Right? So if it was scary, we're like, Nope, it's out. So we moved.

E

past, and there's these brand pillars, but we don't need to read through those, but we moved past the idea of like super, super fierce, super strong. One of the things that Shannon said was, I'm a mid, I'm just a Midwest girl. I don't know if I can see myself here and I need to be able to see myself. I totally agree. And so I was like, okay, well, this is, this is out. Let me move our faces because.

Speaker 2 (48:37.678)

Okay, so then we went to, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna create a new concept and then we're going to, we're gonna go from there. So the new concept, I gave her this for reference. And so I went a little bit deeper into the storytelling. So I suggested a third space that feels like home. So we're talking Central Park, we're talking the Cheers Bar, we're talking, you know, Luke's Diner, like the places that we know.

that Shannon already had the framework for in her brain to feel a specific way. And so let's make it modern, let's make it colorful. And these are all things that we had talked about in our strategy session. These are our actual faces. And so I wanted to make sure that that was showcased. We wanted it to be comfortable for them, like a modern day twist on cheers.

you walk into the sound of your name, how does it taste? How does it smell? How does it sound, right? Tastes like a cinnamon, oak milk latte, fresh chocolate chip cookie. And so then I walked her through my ideas for how we actually make this happen. How do we actually bring this to life? So I gave her some suggestions for fonts. I gave her some suggestions for color palette. This was her original color palette. It was just,

It was I added I think I added a couple of colors here, but I essentially made some tweaks to make it more accessible in terms of contrast. And so that's just something that we have to think about. And so I made some edits there, you know, gave some suggestions how I thought that this would would come through, you know, this idea of primary and secondary messaging. And then we.

I was like, you know, if you really want to lean into this, like we can make it a coffee shop. And she was like, let's make it a coffee shop. Like, yeah. And so this was the one she was like, yeah, this is it. Let's, let's do it. And so what happened next was I'm going to pull over.

Speaker 1 (51:00.625)

I'm like, I'm like, like, like, like, I'm like, I'm like, like, I'm like,

because I think what we talked about is like, it takes safety first to then have the courage to shatter the glass ceiling. You don't just walk in with the sunglasses and the newspaper and the cigarette and whatever, and the fire behind you. that's, I told Erica, was like, that's how you walk out of the web designer academy. You don't walk in that way, but you walk out that way and you have to feel safe to.

Speaker 1 (51:59.298)

And at home and in being able to be accepted for your whole full self. You walk out like, watch me. You don't walk in, watch me. And so that was what was really important.

to me about like the difference between those two. so going through this process was just really, really cool. And having Erica guide me through it was pretty amazing because of how she receives feedback. So one of the things we do in our next level mastermind is we, and Alicia is the,

Master of this is like, you find out where you're really getting in your own way. She leads her clients through this process called immunity to change. And you have these goals, but you're not doing them and you're not doing them because they deep down at your core actually feel unsafe and at odds with like the way that you see the world. And one of the things that we uncovered for me is that.

I've been afraid to give feedback because I make that mean like, I want to be liked at all costs. Meaning I don't want to say that something doesn't feel right to me or that I don't like it because that could damage the relationship. That's just what my brain thinks. And because Erica is so important to me giving feedback to her that might hurt her feelings or whatever.

really hard for me to do. I had to do a lot of mindset work to even get to the place where I could hire Erica to like, it's different when it's like, she's working on the team. We've developed processes together, whatever. When I'm hiring her to like be the expert at her craft. and I have to say, I don't like that. And no, that like,

Speaker 1 (54:14.284)

that's not going to hurt the relationship. That was a pivotal moment for me to even be able to do that. I think that it's speaks like I did my own work, but Erica has done her own work or her thoughts about receiving feedback and making it like so safe for me to give feedback, knowing that that's, this is a challenge for me.

So yeah, I just wanted to share that because as we get into this logo concept, I had to be like, okay, now this is when I'm gonna have to like be really honest. So back to you, Erica.

Yeah, no, I love that. you know, I think, and I, in all of my projects with all of my clients, say this, you know, so we had talked about, your feedback is really important to this process. Like, it's okay if you don't like it. You know, as I'm presenting concepts, I'm like, this is just a concept. We just have to make something exist first.

then we can talk about how to make it really, really great. Like, but let's just sort of find where we land and like see how we feel. It's all an experiment. And so I think that that is just important to remember throughout any process, any design process that you're going through. Like it's all an experiment. So let's just kind of see where we land. And then, you know, like as hard as it is, we like, I just have to set my ego aside.

I just have to set it aside and be like, you don't have a place here. This is not about me. This is like, we're like team business. So if we're team business, like how do we make sure that the business is, you know, like, I don't know, being taken care of and like that's at the center, not my ego or my feelings or, you know, whatever. So I will say that I like, this was,

Speaker 2 (56:25.388)

This was the first full concept that's being rolled out, right? And so there are a thousand ways that this could have been built out. So this is just one way. And it is based off of the mood board and the storyboard that we made. But there are so many ways that we could go about this idea of creating this coffee shop.

third space, which you're going to see. And so I presented this concept next to Shannon and walked her through this idea of, you know, this sort of like fun, funky, like modern take on the logo, specifically though thinking through again, like, okay, what are the pieces?

that need to be really modular. So Shannon has Web Designer Academy, but she also has Next Level Mastermind. She also has some marketing momentum. She also has Profitable Web Designer, Profitable Web Designer, wait, Premium. There's some words in there. And others, and I wanted to give her the freedom to be able to...

I was like, I don't...

Speaker 2 (57:49.802)

make whatever other test, whatever other ideas that come to mind. If she's like, I think I have a new sub brand and it not be a big deal. And so when I am designing, for instance, this one, but also all of the other ones, when I'm designing this logo, I'm thinking about creating it as a sort of modular system. How can we create this to be a like super easy way to pull this together? And so what does that look like?

If Web Designer Academy is the umbrella brand, what do the rest of the brands underneath it look like and how are those designed? What are the rules for those? And so there was a little bit of customizing that I did to this one, but not very much because somebody else that is not me needs to be able to use it and create it in the future, right? And so there were a couple of things that I did to this. Obviously this Y is very custom.

So this was meant to like sort of represent the journey that you go on as a business owner. It's very up and down. So there was a lot of like meaning in all of this. And so essentially I just brought the mood board to life, right? And so I'm sharing all of the ideas and all of the why behind all of the things. And Shannon came back and was like, she did not say this.

But she was like, I hate the pink. It's too pink. She didn't say it that way. and then, you know, I had to share with her like, well, you know, like because of contrast and like all of this stuff, like there was a lot of pink. Yes. However, she was like, I think it's too playful. She was like, if I'm thinking, and this is why it was so important for us to formulate goals at the very beginning of the project, because she was like, if I'm thinking about the next five years.

I don't see this as something that I will want to use like years down the road. I'm like, okay, awesome. And so from there, we went back and forth and she was like, okay, listen, this was the point where I think that the feedback got really uncomfortable, maybe would be the right word. And she kind of felt bad.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12.718)

for giving me this feedback. And so I was explaining, you know, like, it's okay, nothing has gone wrong. Nothing has gone wrong. We're okay. This feedback is really valuable. I have a solution. And I got her feedback like in the evening. And I was like, I have a solution. Like, I will, I'll be in touch tomorrow. Because I didn't want her to worry about it like all night long. But I think she did worry about it all night long anyway. And so,

So essentially what happened from there was that we just do a little bit more of a deep dive. I'm like, I think there are some areas where we're not fully communicating what specific things mean. And so let's do a little bit of a diagnostic test. And so there were some words that Shannon kept using that I was like, I want to make sure that I understand these specific words. So classic, timeless, warm, welcoming and cozy. So was like,

I want to make sure in her feedback video that those are the words that she used a lot. So I was like, before we do anything else, let's talk about what these words mean to you. So I put together some different color palettes and some different font selections so that she could just tell me on a scale of one to five, are those classic, timeless, warm, welcoming, or cozy? And then she could give me additional thoughts. So color palettes and fonts.

And I just wanted to see, this was just going to give me an idea of like where we could have landed, where we might land. And this was so insightful. And because

That was so helpful to me too. I'm so glad. massively helpful.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53.582)

And because we did this, the next concept was the concept. And so this was one of the pieces that allowed us to not make a big deal about that feedback. Like it was just a thing. That's all. It didn't

I'm laughing at my additional thoughts. So show it very trendy, pretty, too fancy. It says it's timeless, but I don't feel like it's timeless. It me feel like I'm trying to be younger than I am. Like I totally love the show it vibe. Yeah. And I also know how unfunctional it would be for all of the assets that we needed to create. I just, yeah, this was so helpful for me because I'm like,

It, and I think I told you this, Erica, I'm like, you are not the only one where I say something. think I mean something and what the person like my husband would be like, I am on Erica's side. This is what you said. How did you mean something completely different? I'm like, I don't know.

But here's the thing, like, there's a reason why clients come to me for branding.

Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09.358)

is because they are not designers or visual people themselves and so it's my responsibility to walk them through understanding how their words are translating visually. And so that's another reason why it's not a big deal for the feedback to come in and be like, this is not the one. And so it's like, okay, like a little light bulb goes off, it's time for us to like do a little bit of education and like sit down and communicate just a little bit more.

to get to the root of what our words actually mean. So I'm glad that it was really helpful. This one made me laugh out loud in my office by myself. It was hilarious. Feels like a place football would smash you. And it does, I could see that, absolutely. And so once we did that, I'm going to pull up, I have my...

Speaker 2 (01:04:04.834)

artboard here. Well, this is my very messy

Adobe Illustrator. this is sort of where based on her feedback on that form, I was like, okay. And I told her, said, this does not, we're not necessarily landing here, but how do you, like, what are your thoughts about these? And I don't often ask the question, what are your thoughts? But we're in a, we're in a period of like, and I say that, let me back up. I don't often ask the question, what are your thoughts? Because there are much more strategic questions to ask when getting feedback. But at this point,

we're still sort of like in the discovery process. And so I just needed a sort of general like vibe check. Like, what are we thinking? How are we feeling? And immediately she was like, yeah, OK. And because Shannon required just a little bit more visual support, she was like, I actually just went and bought these fonts and like played around with them a little bit. And I loved that. And so this is essentially where we landed.

Yeah. Right, this middle section. This color palette is pretty much the same. I darkened the orange a little bit for contrast, but otherwise this is pretty much the color palette. And then we were able to, I was like, okay, well now we're rocking and rolling and it started to look like this. And so you can see where we ended up with like the leaves. There they are. But where we actually like fully landed.

Well, we started with the bird and then I was like, okay, here are some options. We have these leaves. Cassandra was like, I don't know about the bird. And so I put together a few different options.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55.32)

Those are the three. And then she's like, this is the one. And then from there, it was what you see today. so that, mean, man, there was so much that happened in that process, but that's essentially the high level overview of like how it came to be.

Yeah. And I just being led through that process, priceless. Like I just want to say like how your clients must feel all of you here when they work with you. Like I put my business in Erica's hands and Erica's part of the business. she put hers like, if she under, she gets it from both sides, but it was like a very vulnerable thing that I didn't expect to feel.

and the, the care and consideration that you all bring to wanting your clients to succeed, that's priceless sitting on the other side of the table, knowing that someone cares as much about this as I do. and I know that Erica does that for clients that she's not an employee of as well. So, and, that you all do that too.

that is part of the value that you bring to your clients. There are companies out there that do not give a crap. They just want to push out the deliverables and get their money. And so I felt like where we ultimately landed reflected how we want people to feel when they, I'm going to share my screen now, how we want people to feel when they.

land on us. You know, the leaves really reflected our philosophy of like planting seeds and like our three core programs. Like this is kind of a window into the third place. That's how I think of it. And these are our actual like Web Designer Academy students at our next level mastermind, all these photos that you see here. So funny to me, I didn't even like think that we

Speaker 1 (01:08:21.25)

And Oh, yeah. We, we have the photos of the people.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41.281)

Yeah.

Shannon matches the brandy.

I'm

This is months-

Speaker 1 (01:09:16.224)

in your pajamas, if you want, you don't have to be like all put together, to work with us. And then, you know, really we pulled together. you know, we have three different programs for three different stages of the journey. Like if you need more clients, our marketing momentum is for you. If you're ready to really shatter the glass ceiling, it's the web designer Academy. You're going to walk out, like, watch me, you know, know,

and our next level mastermind is for your like kind of trapped by your success. Yeah. Genevieve said, I thought the photo shoot was done to match the new branding. The photo shoot was done before I even decided to do a rebrand. and then because of this is like a, this is kind of a perfect ROI, a math ROI result because

my capacity has been restored. I wouldn't even say restored, gifted to me. never, like, I haven't had it in the way that I do. I can work with clients one-on-one now. I've never been able to do that before because I just haven't, I felt so stressful for all of the other things that I've been doing to like run the business behind the scenes and operate it and being like the operator and the button pusher to.

now be able to offer private coaching. And I've booked two private coaching clients since making that offer inside of our programs a week ago. So that's significant additional revenue, Erica, that I would not have otherwise created without getting the capacity back from this rebrand. So there is a direct monetary results.

from the time saved that, you know, I can point to in terms of ROI and it's just going to grow from there. Like that's just the ice, the tip of the iceberg. and so. Yeah, we would love for you to go explore the website. We are still in QA. If you find anything, please feel free to email me, Shannon at web designer academy.com. I'd be like, I found this weirdness.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40.652)

you know, we help us out. Tell us, tell us what you find. still in QA. I'm still working through 150 blog posts and cleaning up old calls to action and things like that. And, and then I'll be doing some SOPs and being like, I'm not touching this anymore. So, the other thing that I wanted to let you know is that all of our self-study courses that you probably did not even know.

that we have are currently 50 % off for the next three days. So feel free to come in here, check these out. And until Sunday, July 20th, I always get my days and dates wrong. That's why I'm being careful. Until Sunday at midnight, you can get all of these courses at 50 % off, including our self-study web designer academy.

That is a steal of a steal of a deal. So check that out. And then also I wanted to let you know that if you are interested in working with us inside of the web designer Academy, we do host open houses and you can come and hang out with us, come to one of our live strategy calls, chat with Erica and I about what it looks like to work with us and.

Erica just taught this whole entire brand strategy, brand system, she calls it a brand system. She just taught this as a bonus course inside of the Web Designer Academy to all of the members, leading them step by step through that entire process. So if you do decide to come and work with us in the month of July and you join us, you'll get access to that brand strategy.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59.593)

And to you help you

And if you're too beginner or too advanced, we have options to support you in whatever way you need, plus our new private coaching offer. So that's what I wanted to share with you all. We would love to dive more into Lashay's question about the modular design system. I'm going to choose a few people who are here to give away some Starbucks gift cards since, you know, it's

The coffee shop, the third place coffee shop where we're hanging out. And I'm going to do that while Erica shares more about the, brand system. And we would love to answer any of your questions for those of you who are still here with us.

Yeah, for sure. one of the things, the goal for this whole brand, right, was to save time. And so thinking about saving time in terms of how long are we taking if we're creating new assets for a new opportunity? How long are we taking to create marketing materials? How long are we taking to...

put a new page up on the website for this, that, and the other, whatever. And with the old branding, it was a lot of time. It was a lot of time. so taking the idea from pulling the brand together as a system to work in a specific way where Shannon or I or anyone could pull together a new sub-brand.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41.538)

going on into the website and looking at it in the same way, the slide decks, the same way. How can we create this to be sort of a modular system? And so essentially what we did is we created masters. So we created master slides and we created master sections for the website. And basically the way that it works is that we have some very specific rules and these are laid out in our brand guidelines.

We have some very specific rules about how we sort of structure things, like for instance, in the branding, if it's a sub-brand. If it's three words, then all of those words, we use a very specific font and we use the regular one. If it goes on to four words or more, three of the, well, whatever it goes beyond the three words in the descriptive words, they're italicized. Right, so we have some very specific rules.

for how to systemize that. And then same thing for the website. We have some very specific blocks, ways we're creating blocks. Also for slide decks, we have specific covers. We have specific ways that we set up information. so thinking about, and I guess what I also wanna say,

is that this is a very collaborative process because it's important for me as the designer to know what kind of information Shannon is putting on those slides and is putting in her website and that kind of stuff. And so through that process, I'm able to put it into a systematic sort of way. So I'm creating this modular system. So then when it's time, all we have to do is like, these pieces are creative, created. We get to pull from all of them.

and then we get to put it together. So we have saved a ton of time in creating additional assets because they're already created and the design decisions are done. So all we have to do is add the content. And beyond that, it's like, okay, moving on to the next thing. Like we're finished and we no longer have to spend so much time agonizing over making new things or leaking time.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04.58)

everywhere making new things.

Yeah. And for me, like having the constraints makes making the decisions easier and makes creating content easier. And also like the way that Erica and I worked together was that, you know, we did the initial brand strategy that she walked you through here, but then it's an ongoing engagement. Like we're still in it. We still haven't created all of the assets.

I'm still like in contract with Erica on a month to month basis, at least through the end of the year, as we continue to like, here are new applications for this brand that maybe we didn't know existed at the time that we even embarked upon this or something has changed or in practice, a decision that we made.

before isn't like working out as well as we thought. And so then Erica can come back and create the new thing or give me some advice on how to do that or help me when I'm like, I need to do this thing and it's not working or we like just having her. So it's like a retainer. It's a design retainer. This wasn't just like a one.

and done project. so, you know, even though she's done something to set me up so that I don't need her, I also still need her. so it's a way for you to create recurring revenue in your design business when you collaborate with your clients at such a deep level. I couldn't believe the list of assets

Speaker 1 (01:19:59.714)

that needed to have a brand applied to them. It was probably at least a hundred things. And for us to try to even consider packing that into a shorter time project timeframe, neither of us have the capacity to do that. Even if I was Erica's only client and I paused the business for three months, which that seems like ridiculous. So.

Yeah. And also like on the website side, I'm a WordPress elementor user. And part of this design system piece was like, we're going to have rules about the sections of the website and rules about like, if it's three things, it always looks like this. If it's two things, it always looks like this. If, you know, and here are page templates, here are section templates.

and that we're not going to ever be reinventing the wheel. We have our Elementor template library for all of the pieces and parts. And we know that if we're show, like if this is what we're creating, it's already done. And we also, then we went into like advanced custom fields, custom post types and like nerded out on all of that stuff to really operationalize a lot of our things that we do all the time.

So, you know, when we're doing a live event, we know we need a registration page, a thank you page. It's gonna need a convert kit form. It's gonna need a headline, call to action and date. Let's just have a page built for that, that now it's not designed anymore, it's data entry. And that's the whole shift that creates capacity and it creates the ability for us to bring in more support and not have to have it be specialized.

support. Yep. Exactly. Lashay said, make the decision once use it till it breaks. and so it was such a delight to get to re-engineer the backend of our business from the ground up. And yeah, it just looks like our website and branding is different, but the business, the way that it operates is different. And that's the thing that I want you all to see that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24.61)

the value that you bring to the client beyond the deliverable is what they're able to do with that after the pixels are pretty, you know, that's where you get to charge so much more than what you're charging today. And that's truly the transformation we lead you through inside of the web designer academy is how do you shift how you think about it? How do you talk about it like that to your clients?

How do you lead them through a sales process that gets them thinking the same way? And then how do you actually deliver on that the way Erica delivered on that for me such that I'm like, and as a result, I was able to add five hours a week of private coaching to my calendar that I'm not spending on fussing with slides for the summit that I'm speaking at next month.

those are real tangible results. And when you go through processes like what we teach you, you are able to identify those results at the beginning and deliver in ways that like make those actually really happen for your clients. So thank you all so much for being here. This was so fun to share this journey with you.

Congratulations to our $25 Starbucks gift card winners, Shawna Irwin, WGAFAM member. Shout out to Shawna, Cassia Lawrence, Rhonda C, Haley Keys. to claim your prize, just send me an email, shannonatwebdesigneracademy.com and I will send you your Starbucks gift card and you can go get some coffees on me or matcha or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31.306)

Yes, so much. you. One thing, whenever I was teaching the brand system workshops, one question that was asked was like, wait, do we have to be designers to be able to do this?

And I'm here to say that no, you don't have to be a designer. You can take on the role of a creative director and lead this project. You can hire somebody to do the design work for you. So if you're not a designer and you're sitting here and you're like, OK, this is cool, but like that doesn't really apply to me. It totally can. I asked just for some feedback on those sessions and some of the fan members gave us just like such great.

I would

Yes, please do. Because I love the shift from even like, I just love the mindset shift from designer to creative director. Like that's a whole thing. that's really from designer is like deliverable based, creative director is like outcome based. And just even that self concept of shifting from

I'm designing to I'm directing is like a thing. So yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51.574)

Exactly. So Emma said, it was so valuable off the top of my head. It was full of great tips and tricks I hadn't thought of before. It laid out everything I needed to do to get it implemented in a free, friendly and easy to follow way. I loved it.

Heather said, the brand class went above and beyond what I expected. I've been doing graphic design and logos for over 20 years. While I've steadily developed my design skills, my process has always felt a little loose. This class showed me that parts of my approach were solid, but also gave me a ton of tools I can add, I can now add, refine, and build into my workflow. The process Erica teaches doesn't just improve the client experience, it also saves you time and gives you more space to actually be creative and get paid for it.

Erica is not only an incredibly talented designer, but more importantly for this role, a thoughtful and professional teacher. She explains things clearly with warmth, creating space where you feel safe to grow. So generous. Janet said, to add to that, you gave some great tips on how to explain clearly to your clients your vision. I love how you create a story mood board. Tips on tools is always fun too and helpful.

So true.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06.114)

Janelle said, before your workshop, felt like I had some pretty good pieces to my brand design process, but it wasn't like a cohesive system. Having you walk us through your brand system process totally connected all the dots for me. I was able to immediately try it out with a client and she was blown away. Her reaction was literally, MFG, how did you read my mind? She's totally obsessed with the mood board. So.

I love that so much. just a reminder, if you do decide to come work with us inside of the web designer Academy in July, you'll get Erica's brand system course as a bonus. And you can save 50 % on all of our self study courses right now at webdesigneracademy.com forward slash courses and come to our next open house. We would love to see you there. You get to like be a fly on the wall of one of our live strategy calls.

and then chat with me and Erica afterwards about the program and see if it's the right next step for you to help you reach your big web design business goals. So thank you all so much for being here. We appreciate you so much. We're so excited for the next five years of the brand and everything that we have in store for you. So that's it. That's everything. Thank you all. And you can listen to the replay of this.

on the podcast as well in a few, few weeks. All right. Bye everyone. Bye.