#135 – February 2025 Income Report

Shannon Mattern (00:01.471)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the profitable web designer podcast. And this is my 2025, February, 2025 income report. And I'm doing it a little bit differently today. Today I am joined by our client success coordinator at the web designer Academy, Erica Nash. And she's actually going to interview me today for the February income report.

So hi Erica, welcome to the show.

Erica Nash (00:33.614)

Hi, I'm excited.

Shannon Mattern (00:35.837)

I'm really excited for this. So I had this idea to bring Erica on as like a co-host for my formerly solo income report episodes for a lot of reasons. But one of the reasons was just like logistically, it takes me like four to five hours to write a script for the income reports.

and then record them and then, and then, and so I was thinking like, how can I shorten this process, still make it really fun. And also my podcast producer keeps telling me. I need to have these on video. And I'm like, but like, are you just going to watch me like read a script that I wrote on a video? Like that doesn't sound fun. So I asked Erica if she'd be willing to do this.

And you so graciously said, yes, since you're my sidekick and all of the web designer Academy live strategy calls and everybody inside the program knows you and sees you all the time. Like let's bring you outside of the doors. Yeah. Let Erica out. So yeah. Do you want to just tell everybody a little bit about you briefly and what you do? And then I'll have you just dive into asking me.

Erica Nash (01:42.894)

Let me out.

Shannon Mattern (01:56.127)

all of the questions and then this will just like go where it goes. So yeah.

Erica Nash (02:00.686)

can't wait to see. Yeah. So like Shannon said, my name is Erica Nash and I am the client success coordinator at Web Designer Academy. And so I support our students and Shannon and and I do that in a lot of ways, but primarily just ensuring that our students are able to implement our strategies, you know, in whatever ways they need to and give them, you know, whatever support

and I support Shannon with lots and lots of other things as well. I am also a designer, I own Riot Creative Studio and specialize in brand design. So, yeah.

Shannon Mattern (02:47.903)

We'll talk a lot more about both of those roles, I'm sure, in this Uncome Report and future income reports. And Erica told me before we got on today that you sounded like, what did you say? The bluesy version of Phoebe when she sings Smelly Cat?

Erica Nash (03:07.034)

Yes, yes, I'm getting over COVID, so my voice is a little deep today. I won't sound like this every time, but it is the way it is today. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (03:13.023)

Ha ha ha.

Shannon Mattern (03:18.239)

like it. It's good stuff. I basically was like, Erica, here's a list of questions that I basically ask myself and answer every month on In the Income Report podcast. And I would love for you to ask those to me and then also

you know, kind of interview me and interject with any comments or questions or follow up or anything that you know, you're curious about as I'm sharing anything. And it'll just be just like any other interview super conversational, it'll go where it goes. So are you ready to dive in? Okay, let's do it.

Erica Nash (03:58.158)

Yeah, let's do it. All right. So obviously what everybody loves to hear to kick us off, how much was the total inflow for February 2025 and where did it come from?

Shannon Mattern (04:14.143)

Yeah. So total inflow in February, 2025 was $14,894 and 54 cents. And that came from web designer Academy payment plan, you know, recurring payment plan, next level mastermind recurring payment plan. Um, some of it came from our brand new marketing momentum membership. So exciting. Um,

We got another awesome sponsor for the Simply Profitable Designer Summit. Sarah Dunn's Rank for Revenue program decided to slide in at the last minute and grab a sponsorship spot. So that was really cool. So just a lot of little different places, which I love because the inflow is very diversified and we have like a lot of little.

levers to pull. think also it came from one person converting from the Web Designer Academy self-study to the full Web Designer Academy program. So that was awesome. I was like, yay, I'm so excited for her. And yeah, that's where that's where the inflow came from. And I was looking back at our inflow in February of 2024, one year ago, and it was 6,000.

$570 and that was kind of like at the tail end of like the no good, very bad 2023, early 2024. So just to see that difference was just really awesome. So yeah.

Erica Nash (05:54.538)

Mm-hmm. That's amazing. And I think I have two thoughts. First, think it's such, like it's just refreshing to see how much can change in a year. Like truly how much can change in a year. I don't know about you, but I feel like we are like a different company than we were in February 2024. Like it's just different.

Shannon Mattern (06:19.134)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (06:24.686)

And so that's the one thing. And the other thing I'm thinking is that, you you mentioned that the inflow is coming from all of these different places. And, you know, we've got some different levers to pull. And I think that that's also, and, we talked to our students about this all the time too. And also just a good reminder that like you get to create whatever kind of income you want to create in whatever way you want to create it. And so it doesn't all have to be

one thing. doesn't all have to be one offer. It doesn't all have to be high ticket. It doesn't all have to be X, Y, Z. Like we don't have to put, you know, like any type of prescription on it. We get to have fun and experiment and, you know, try all of these different things and like, look how that's worked out for us. So that's exciting.

Shannon Mattern (07:16.893)

that so much. And I'm curious, like you're like, we're a different company than we were in February 2024. Like our offers don't look different on the outside, per se, and our branding doesn't look different yet. We'll talk about that later. But like, what are what are some things that you can kind of put your finger on that made you say like, we're a different company?

Erica Nash (07:44.558)

That is such a good question. Because I'm not totally sure that it's in any kind of client facing way or like anybody that's on the outside looking in. I don't know that they would say that. But I think just like I think you and I have grown. I think we're different people than we were in February, 2024, first of all. And I think that is like the basis for

the change. think that we, even though we were very much leaning toward in February 2024, we were already working with Zanatine and looking at data and stuff like that. We were already very much like passionate about, you know, the idea that data should drive our decisions.

But I think after February 2024, was like, I don't know, there was just, it was almost like a veil was removed or something like that. And there was just a lot more clarity that happened a lot faster.

Erica Nash (08:58.362)

I don't know, like the data that we were getting, we were able to really get behind and put some decisions into play and with our own sort of personal growth paired with that, it was just like a storm of all the right things. I don't know.

Shannon Mattern (09:19.519)

Yeah, it makes me think of like, we were probably preparing for the Simply Profitable Designer Summit back in February of 2024. And I do feel like I personally, I think I talked about this on previous income reports, just felt less like I had to protect myself or something.

Erica Nash (09:26.062)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (09:43.419)

And so like even just like we decided to hold an open house last year for the web designer Academy. Whereas before I'd be like, this is for this, this thing that I'm doing is only for like accepted applicants. Like I had the wall that I started, like, I feel like I really started like take the walls down as well, which is really interesting. And like just being feeling safe to make data-driven decisions, which I know sounds kind of silly, but.

I think so many things happened in 2023 that made me, that I didn't realize that I needed to like pull the walls back down. And I think that's really when we probably started doing that. And I feel like we're taking them down even more now. Like we're very intentionally like taking the walls down, which is really fun.

Erica Nash (10:26.573)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (10:39.148)

Yeah, no, I think that's a great point and I think that...

there because of all of the things that happened in the no good very bad year you know like there was also a level of like

I need things to happen fast so that I know that I'm safe. And I think once, like after the summit last year in 2024, like you said, I feel like that's when the wall really came down and it was like, we're safe. Like it's, we're good. And we, you know, we're able to start dismantling all of that. And it didn't feel like things had to happen fast anymore.

It felt like we get to trust the process, just like we tell our students we get to trust the process.

Shannon Mattern (11:35.987)

Yeah. And it's interesting to say that because like, I keep wanting, like, I keep saying launch the membership, like, we launched marketing momentum. Like I want to really intentionally remove the word launch from my vocabulary because it has all kinds of connotations of like, you put a bunch of energy behind this thing and it's supposed to like take off and not explode. Right? Like there's a lot of pressure.

Erica Nash (12:00.696)

Mm, mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (12:03.005)

when it comes to quote unquote launching anything. And that's not even the vibe with which I approach anything anymore. So when I talk about like, like, we, tried this thing, like we tested this, we experimented with this, there's like no launch energy involved. So I think that that's like also such a difference between, between 2020, like this year and last year.

Erica Nash (12:30.809)

Good stuff. All right. So let's talk about the outflow. So what was the total outflow for February 2025 and where did it go?

Shannon Mattern (12:42.943)

Yeah. So outflow was $21,090 and 83 cents. Um, and all of that planned for like no surprise expenses, nothing that like came out of left field, um, in terms of, of expenses. So, um, about 10,500, I don't have the exact figure, but like between 10 and 11,000 is for our salaries. So, um,

You know, we're W2 employees of the company. That is our paycheck. All the payroll taxes I pay to the state of Texas where you live and the state of Ohio where I live. You know, all of those pieces and parts that come with having employees of a company. All of our tools that we use to run the business, like we've added Circle, which was our membership platform. We've added Spiffy, which was a payment processing platform.

And then we have web hosting and about five bajillion other tools that we use to run the business that I always look at the list of all of them. And I'm like, spend between $1,600 and $2,000 a month on these tools. And I'm always like, do I really need that? And then like at the end of the day, I'm like, yeah, actually all of these serve a very sp-

specific important purpose in the business and the time spent on like getting rid of any one of these would just not be worth, you know, would not be worth where my time goes. So there's that. then above and beyond, most, most of our expenses are spent on like marketing. like you mentioned, Zana Tank Consulting, conversion rate optimization. That's something that we do every month, our podcast production, something we do every month.

But above that, so that's like, that puts us at like our 15,000 and that's like break even, right? But this year I made some very intentional decisions to invest in more help, more support, more strategic and like time-based support. And so we embarked on our rebrand project with Riot Creative Studio. So that's like.

Shannon Mattern (14:58.949)

not Erica Nash client success coordinator, also moonlighting as graphic designer in the company. That's like a separate project with Riot for rebranding. I engaged Lee at Zanatane for even more support above and beyond like the strategic, like monthly conversion rate optimization stuff. And then we also had just...

additional podcast production fees because of my super long episodes the past few times. So that was about an additional 4,000 on top of our 15. And then Summit, Simply Profitable Designer Summit support. I think so far I've paid $2,400 or what I paid in February was $2,400. And all of that outflow to people that I

Erica Nash (15:30.74)

you

Shannon Mattern (15:54.495)

care about respect are brilliant. Like I'm just so happy to pay it. And like I built the summit by myself last year. Of course, we only made $6,000 in February because I had zero capacity to do anything other in the anything else in the business than to build that summit. And so I mentioned this in my January income report, but like my capacity is

Erica Nash (16:12.063)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (16:22.393)

so different now that I am like asking for support, allowing people to help me, like delegating more things. Like I have the capacity to create more things of value that create more money for us. So yeah, that's where it went. so then that took $6,196.29.

from our reserves, which that's what our reserves are there for, for those things. So, yeah.

Erica Nash (16:59.818)

So I'm curious, even though you said like it wasn't a surprise, I knew, you know, that like those expenses were coming and all of that. And even though we have that reserve and that's what it's there for, I'm curious if it made you feel any type of way dipping into it and pulling out.

Shannon Mattern (17:23.089)

So it's interesting that you say that because I attended a or not a summit, a retreat at the end of February with my friend and mindset coach, Alicia St. Germain. And it was like a three day in-person retreat where she, it was like mindset, it was money, it was all of this stuff. And.

My big issue has been like self trust in the decisions that I am making when it comes to finances because upon reflection, and I know I've talked about this on the podcast, but like I have made some decisions that I look at after the fact. And I'm like, I was trying to save something. was trying, I was feeling unsafe and trying to get quick results. and

I can see how I made decisions that created unwanted results. And so like when I say none of these things are surprises and they're here and I've thought them through, I would say I feel 90 % like confident in my intentions behind these decisions. The 10 % that I still feel a little bit like

Am I fooling myself or whatever is like, I am also really good. And this was like reflected back to me at my mastermind and at that retreat, like I'm really good at like talking myself into what I want to do and like not looking at what I don't want to see. Right. So when I look at those numbers and I'm like, yeah, I'm happy with those.

Erica Nash (19:00.385)

you

Shannon Mattern (19:11.721)

there was still like that, just that little bit of self doubt. That's like, are you, but are you really making good decisions? Like, are you like, are you confident in these? you trying, are you trying to pull the wool over your own eyes? And so at that retreat, Alicia's like new finance person there was there, name's Jen from, I think her company is called peak.

solutions. She's amazing. She was so awesome. And we were just kind of talking about like, well, how do you how do you know if you made the right decision? Right? I just wanted her to like, tell me the answer because you know, like, it's black and white, it has to be like, check these boxes. And you know, you made a good decision. And we were just having this conversation. And she's like, it's really nuanced. And every business is different. And she said something that kind of like

Erica Nash (19:51.574)

you

Shannon Mattern (20:09.555)

Blew my mind. And she was like, cause we were kind of talking about like, how do you know if something's a sinking ship? How do you know when to just like bail out? Cause she's like, she has been behind the scenes of so many companies. She was like, there's only been one circumstance in which I got involved and I did, I don't think that they're going to be able to fix it. And I asked like, why not? And she said,

She was like, because they're just not willing to like make the changes that they need to make. They're just like, they're dug in, they're unwilling to do it. Or they were, I think this might've been in past situation. And I'm like, I can't, like when she said that, I was like, okay, I can trust myself. So when I look at these, because I know, like, I want to, I'm like, please tell me the things I can't see. Even if I'm not ready to hear them right now, the seed will get planted.

and it will grow and I will eventually be like ready to hear it, but I'm so much more seeking to know what I don't want to know, if that makes sense. So I know that was a really long answer, but I truly trust that the decisions I'm making today are only going to

Erica Nash (21:20.418)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (21:37.321)

help us help more people. Every single thing on this list is like, how can we help more people? I think about like, spending money on marketing is awesome. And it's like, I'm investing in putting a ton of free information out there to help people. And hopefully it helps them like come closer to making the decision to work with us.

Erica Nash (21:40.11)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (22:06.845)

But every single thing on this list is like someone who may never come to work with us is going to hear something that they need to hear and go make a change that impacts their life. And they're never like, they're never going to pay me anything. I'm okay with that because I, it will come back to me in some other way. Like it will come back to us in some other way. So I'm patient for the return. Whereas ask me a year ago and I was not.

Erica Nash (22:27.246)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (22:32.59)

That's good.

Erica Nash (22:36.418)

That's good. Patient for the return. That's, I think a, like if we're looking at the business journey is like peaks and valleys. I think that's like a peak place that you've got to really work to get to and work to stay on top of. Cause I think you can lose that really quickly if you're not intentional about continuing to stay.

Shannon Mattern (22:57.171)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (23:05.838)

just open and aware, I guess. One thing that you said about, I think Jen was her name, what she said was that that company wasn't willing to make the changes. And I think if we look back, if we compare February 2025 Shannon slash WDA to 2024,

Shannon slash WDA, it would be so apparent that like you were willing to make the changes needed you need to make in order to to do whatever you need to do, you know? And so I don't know if that also gives a little bit of relief is not the right word, but validation maybe that I also think that you were doing.

all of those making all of those decisions within integrity that like, you know, it's for for the greater good of the company. And just like you were talking about, It's creating a ripple effect that we like it knows no bounds like, and there's no way to ever know like how far that will that will reach. But that's what we're here for. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (24:27.005)

Yeah. And, and that kind like when you were saying that like two things came up for me. One, I have learned so much from that version of myself that was so scared. Like I can, I'm, I'm grateful for the ability to like reflect on that and just like with compassion and understand like, I totally understand why.

Erica Nash (24:37.688)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (24:56.647)

you did that. Like when I say you like that version of me back then, like I get it. And I think I might make different decisions the next time I'm faced with that. Because maybe I wouldn't, I don't know. But like, I think that just to be able to look back and understand why and understand that like, I was maybe

Erica Nash (24:58.199)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (25:23.773)

The way I was thinking about things was creating my reaction and all of the, all of those things. Like I've grown from that and now I can create some different, make some different decisions when faced with similar circumstances. But the other thing that I was thinking about is like just risk tolerance, right? It's like, so really on attaching myself from like the risk, like the outcomes, I guess, like

Erica Nash (25:39.511)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (25:53.905)

and being willing to risk it. Like I am willing to risk it because when I'm not willing to risk it, it's not really that fun to run the business. And I know that that sounds like it's not like wild, like, woohoo, I'm gonna go crazy. But like, it feels so much more fulfilling to go for the bigger mission than to just like keep it like.

Erica Nash (26:18.422)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (26:23.013)

small and safe and like, and we're not, don't feel like we're going crazy, but like to just maintain status quo, like I could just go get a job. Like if that's what I wanted, you know.

Erica Nash (26:35.48)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (26:39.328)

Yeah, and sometimes I feel like it's harder to maintain the status quo. Like, sometimes I feel like it's easier to go for the bigger mission or to let it just all go, by the wayside. Like, I feel like it's harder to hold on to that one version of you, of the business, of your clients, of whatever, because everything and everyone involved is ever evolving and...

Like that's the natural trajectory that all of the things involved want to take. And so it takes a lot of effort to like keep it all. It's like the stream is flowing and you're just like standing pushing it, you know, against the flow. And that's tough.

Shannon Mattern (27:27.881)

Yeah. Yeah.

Erica Nash (27:31.042)

Good stuff. All right, so what are some of the important things that happened in February?

Shannon Mattern (27:38.963)

Well, we really started our rebrand project with Riot Creative Studio. So that was like one of the big things. And like kind of right around the time that, and I talked a little bit about that in my January income report. I re listened to that while I was taking Scarlet for a walk this morning, just to make sure I didn't like say all the same things. And we also like at the same time, we're kind of.

Erica Nash (27:43.863)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (28:05.459)

going through that process, Lee over at Zanatain gave us this beautiful like 45 minute funnel analysis video, which to call it a funnel analysis would be like, it's not the right name for what this was, but it was just like a full analysis of every touch point we have like data, intent, hypotheses, experiments, and like those two things.

Erica Nash (28:20.504)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (28:35.217)

together in February, really two of the most important things that I think happened aside from going to that retreat at the end of the month and getting out of it, like something I didn't even really expect. So we can talk more about that if you want, because I think that that's really kind of the, the

Erica Nash (28:59.466)

Let's do it.

Shannon Mattern (29:03.583)

biggest, most important thing that happened in February, that's gonna be kind of like the springboard to the rest of what we end up talking about this year. yeah, I hired Riot in January. We started the process in February. And one of the early decisions that we made was to like not launch the brand and like really kind of

Erica Nash (29:12.386)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (29:31.323)

rebrand in public and do this out loud. And we'll be sharing some in-depth things with the Web Designer Academy members, like this full case study file with, if you're inside the Web Designer Academy, you get to see like all of it and our interactions and my feedback and all of this stuff.

And I had some tough moments of being able to communicate things and articulate things. So I don't know. I'm curious to hear your perspective of from Riot Creative Studio, what part of the rebrand did we do in February? And then I can talk about how that process unfolded in some of my.

Erica Nash (30:15.936)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (30:21.405)

challenges and opportunities that came up for me as a result of that.

Erica Nash (30:25.08)

For sure. Yeah, so well, before I even get into that, one of the things that I want to share is that whenever you presented the idea to me and said, hey, like, I want to do this, you know, would you be interested? One of the things that you said was, you know, you were feeling somewhat disconnected from the current Web Designer Academy brand and you said...

I just, one of the things that I feel like will open the floodgates is branding, for the branding to feel really connected. And I felt like that was such an important phrase. And you just said that the branding process that we started was kind of a springboard, one of the things for a springboard for future things. And so I think that that, I think it's super important to frame the conversation that way that,

We're looking at this as a tool for future offers, for making connections, for all of those things. It truly is the mechanism that we are using to open the floodgates, not just to new clients, but also to creativity and to capacity and to efficiency and all of these things. so...

you know, we are truly looking at this, and I mean, every brand should be looked at this way, but like we are truly looking at this as like one tool in the toolbox of, you know, the Web Designer Academy shop, if you will. And so in February, we essentially, well,

we did our strategy. So we developed our brand strategy in February. We got that really nailed down. And then the intention was, okay, in March, then we are gonna go on to conceptualization and nail down a concept, and then we'll build out the rest of the brand kit. I was really inspired, and so I moved forward early. And so we started that process a little bit early.

Erica Nash (32:39.918)

However, we are still in that process, so we've not left there. But we did nail down our brand strategy slash brand story in February.

Shannon Mattern (32:55.251)

Yeah. And we developed some really strong like brand pillars, the whole process of like Erica asking me all of these questions and what's my vision and what do we see for the future and who are we as a company and what do we stand for and all of that.

Erica Nash (32:59.714)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (33:15.089)

It was a really powerful thing and it, it again opened the flood gates, but it's also like very foundational in terms of like, you know, then when Lee Scott at Zayn-e-Tayn is coming up with strategy, you know, her strategy is tied back to how we want people to feel when they engage with us. We don't want them to feel like they're in a funnel. We want them to feel like they're in a conversation with me. And that is not a.

marketing strategy or sales tactic, that's a value that we have as a company. And I think that like,

getting us all on the same page in terms of that was just like really important. So we did this brand strategy. Lee, I think Lee saw it before, before or during she was making her like analysis and her like recommendations for what to do for the future and how beautifully it all just came together. Like I want it, it's one of those things where I'm like,

It feels so right. want it to happen right now, but I understand that like it would take an army to like, to, to pull it together as fast as I want. But one of the challenges that I had, which I know this about myself. and Erica has so beautifully like held my hand through it truly is visualizing. Like visualizing like words.

Erica Nash (34:26.76)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (34:48.893)

Give me words all day. Like words make me feel something. I communicate with words. Erica communicates with art and design and words also very beautifully, but like I don't. And so when someone describes something, I can't really see it. Or, when I say words that I think describe certain things, there's a disconnect. So

the visual representation of this brand that we came up with, we've gone through a couple of iterations. One of them scared me because it was like too powerful, I guess. That would be like the Cliff Notes version. And then the other one felt like a little too playful. was like we were kind of like at the two poles, I guess, if we could say. So I'm curious.

to, I mean, I know we've talked about this and I've seen your, Erica's like vlogging behind the scenes about like, you know, all of this, but like, I'm curious to hear your side of the, you know, visual brand strategy story.

Erica Nash (36:00.448)

as far as like the, our back and forth.

Shannon Mattern (36:04.883)

Yeah, or just the concepts that you presented, why you presented them and like kind of, don't know where we've landed yet because we're still in the process. So you don't have to share where we've landed because we haven't even had that conversation, but just.

Erica Nash (36:09.416)

yeah.

Erica Nash (36:17.902)

Yeah, we haven't quite landed anywhere. But as far as the brand strategy, and like you said, the first version, I'm gonna say intimidated you rather than scared you. I think that's a better, because you were like, hold my hand, let's go.

Shannon Mattern (36:38.469)

That's a great yes for sure.

Shannon Mattern (36:48.965)

Well, OK, so to interrupt you, Erica pulled out something about the Web Designer Academy brand that I kind of like keep a secret, I guess you would say. Like, maybe you guys get it, but like she pulled it out and like put it front and center and she called it the Quiet Rebellion. And it was basically like. You make the rules, nobody else does like you get to, but it was just.

I don't know, can you explain, like, give everyone the vibe of this quiet rebellion that like scared me.

Erica Nash (37:20.107)

Yeah.

Erica Nash (37:25.166)

Yeah, and so what you have to understand is that I love to give sort of a conceptual theme to help tell the story of the brand. And I just think that it helps people to connect something that already exists and they already have a framework for in their mind so that they can kind of see how it might work with their own branding. And we can take it, you know, however far they need to take it. But the

When I was putting together brand strategy, design direction, mood board, I had two concepts. And one concept was this, you know, quiet rebellion. The line that you kept saying was, me. Like, I kind of have a rebellious streak. Like, you're going to tell me I can't do something? Watch me go do it. And so that was playing into it a lot.

Also, just to back up just a little bit, whenever we first met, we had agreed that everything was on the table and that we were allowing ourselves to dream really big and just to reimagine Web Designer Academy from the ground up and just see what came out of it. And so I knew that that direction, that watch me direction was like a reach.

Shannon Mattern (38:51.039)

you

Erica Nash (38:52.108)

But I was like, if we're gonna reimagine, like let's reimagine, let's truly reimagine. And so I had this other concept kind of in my back pocket. I didn't wanna present them both because I tend to find that that's a little bit more confusing than like presenting one, there's enough with one. And so I was like, okay, we're gonna go with this other option. And the Quiet Rebellion piece, I kind of imagined,

as an editorial slash newspaper slash like bullpen, but not in the way, not in like super duper high powered, like aggressive, like whatever. I was thinking of it more in terms of like styling, like that was kind of more of the style. when I presented it,

You know, you, and, and and it, there, there was a piece of like unapologetic power. Okay. I don't think I've shared this with you yet, actually. But I put that together the day after the Super Bowl. And one of the things that I was really, really inspired by, did you watch the Super Bowl?

Shannon Mattern (40:09.279)

A little bit, yes. I was paying attention somewhat.

Erica Nash (40:11.04)

Okay, okay, do you remember the Nike commercial with the girls?

Shannon Mattern (40:18.078)

Mm-mm.

Erica Nash (40:19.694)

You have to go watch it at some point. I was really inspired by that commercial and I was really inspired by athletes, female athletes. And so that's kind of where it started and like a black and white imagery and like really powerful shots of really powerful women in like a really diverse capacity, right? It's like women of all shapes, all sizes, all colors in all different sports doing all

Shannon Mattern (40:21.33)

Okay.

Erica Nash (40:49.71)

kinds of different things and just like at the top of their game. And so anyway, that's kind of where that's where it started. And it kind of, you know, going down the rabbit hole and pulling together pictures. And, you know, I shared the I shared the design direction and you were you were like, I'm scared. But also, this is it. And so hold my hand and just like, tell me what to do.

Which was like so admirable and I was like, that's amazing. Like thanks for trusting me that much to just be like, okay, let's do it. But I don't know, you know, I don't know how I feel about this. But like on my end, like absolutely not. Like I would never send you, and I told you that like not in a million years would I be like, okay, like let's do it scared. Because I think there's a difference between, you know, being scared about your outreach and pressing send on the email.

Shannon Mattern (41:19.455)

you

Erica Nash (41:46.424)

versus being scared about rebranding your entire livelihood and pressing enter, send or whatever on that one. And so I was like, no, we're not gonna do that. So I pulled out the other concept, which was a little bit more of a coffee shop vibe. We talked about it as a third place. And so think community, third place. We talked about Central Perk, we talked about...

cheers and the bar and cheers and all of that and that was the one where you were like, yeah, this like this is this is it and You it was so interesting on my end to hear you describe the difference and how you were feeling about like that first concept versus the second concept like that first concept it was like you know, I'm scared and I can see it and

I'm going to need a lot of support for you to like hold my hand along the way. And with the other one, it was like, no, I can get behind this like 100%. Like I am not scared. I'm just excited. And so there was a, there was a such a difference in the way that you, and I could even hear it in your voice, like whenever you, you know, send me a return video and that is that.

that's the feeling that opens the floodgate. That's the thing, that's the safety that we need in order to open the floodgate so that all of the things can do their job so that you can just trust it and continue to do your job.

Shannon Mattern (43:30.611)

my gosh, that is so fascinating and beautiful. And the thing that I remember thinking, I think I might've said this to you is like, the first brand is how people feel after they work with us. It's like, they feel like, yeah, like watch me, I'm unapologetic about this.

you know, I'm going to do it my way. I truly believe that I can design this life what I want, the way that I want and be at the top of my game and be celebrated and not vilified or like whatever that whatever that might fear might be. That's how they feel when they after they work with us or maybe like, you know, as they're ready to like

Erica Nash (44:14.401)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (44:23.199)

they feel that like a little stretchy fear when they're about to go into the next level mastermind. Although next level is like not that like intense. have a branding problem, a branding opportunity on the next level mastermind. But so that's kind of where I was like, want people to like, when you're like the third place, I'm like, oh, yes, like I want them to come in, feel welcome, feel like these are their people.

Erica Nash (44:28.344)

Yeah. Yeah.

Erica Nash (44:33.836)

It's that scary.

you

Shannon Mattern (44:53.351)

And that gives them the foundation to grow into the watch me like kind of vibe. And so when I'm like, I'm like, it feels so right. And I'm like scared to lead with this. I feel like it is part of it, but it's not like, like you said, it's a, it's a, did you say it's like a brick, but it's not the through line or you said it so beautifully.

Erica Nash (44:59.04)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Erica Nash (45:14.807)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Nash (45:20.846)

Yeah, I said that it's a brick, not a cornerstone. So we get to build with it. We get to put it in our story. We get to talk about it. But it doesn't get to be the thing that guides the entire brand. So it still has a place. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (45:26.537)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (45:40.127)

Yeah. Yeah. And then so, uh, so you revealed the third place concept and then I got scared about the playfulness versus like the, cause I kept wanting to say, like, I'm like, we're not premium. We're not high end, but you're like, I think for the purposes of this brand, we're going to have to talk about elevated, elegant, whatever, because I kept

Erica Nash (46:06.367)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (46:09.319)

Like when I think of like elevated or something, I think of like a luxury brand. And I don't think that our vibe is luxury, but our program is not a low price program, right? Like we are a $5,000 group coaching program. So that's not like ultra high end, but it's not, you know, I don't know, cheap quote unquote. And so

Erica Nash (46:23.703)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (46:37.447)

I kept wanting to not, when I was like, I don't want people to think of us as like elevated or elegant or like that I dress up in heels every day or something like that. But then also, I just didn't know how to communicate that into design, like at all. And you really helped me like figure that out, which was awesome.

Erica Nash (46:59.243)

and

Erica Nash (47:04.686)

Yeah, and like I mean why should you be able to communicate that in design? You know what I mean? Like there's no reason that you should.

Shannon Mattern (47:14.879)

Because I have been this whole time, Erica, doing it all myself, trying to DIY everything, just like, it's a departure for me to be like, you know, to go from, I'm DIYing, I look at something, I like it, I don't have to explain to anyone why or even think about it, it just feels right.

Erica Nash (47:19.159)

You

Shannon Mattern (47:39.645)

And I don't have to articulate why it feels right or why it wouldn't feel right. I just get to decide and make all the decisions. Like that part of my ability to express myself because of so much DIY is just not well developed.

Erica Nash (47:55.66)

Yeah, and exactly. And like it doesn't have to be right. And so that's where I get to just like step in and do exactly what we did, which is a little bit of troubleshooting. And I get to give you whatever additional supports are needed along the way in order to help you make decisions and to help us communicate in a way that's like really clear. And...

just like we talk about with our clients, like create some psychological safety so that you feel good about moving forward with the next step and into the next phase and making decisions and, you know, trusting that you know how to make the decisions you need to make with, you know, within this process.

Shannon Mattern (48:41.909)

my gosh. Okay. So we could, I could talk to you about this forever and we have like five more minutes. But like what I was thinking as you were saying that was, can you imagine what it is like to get feedback on your web design business problems from someone like Erica who approaches things in that way? like,

Erica Nash (48:45.344)

I know.

Shannon Mattern (49:10.023)

I'm really good at mindset. I'm really good at figuring out your mind trash. I'm really good at like helping you take action on the things. And so is Erica. And also, you know, when you're out there like working with clients and you have all these fears about, like, what if they don't like it? What if we're not communicating well? Like, did you just hear how patiently she explained like nothing has gone wrong here?

Here's a process to get you and your client back on the same page.

We, that's the kind of stuff we help you with inside the web designer Academy. It's like, we were talking about, like, we just, released marketing momentum last month. It's like marketing momentum helps you get clients and create success. Web designer Academy helps you with the problems of success, meaning you get a client and you need to like get on the same page so that.

the, you know, so that the project can move forward or you're undercharging and over delivering or all of these things like just hearing you explain like, yeah, it's just no big deal. And we just, we give you the support through that. Like that's how you help our students through their problems with their clients. And so I just wanted to point that out for like,

long time podcast listeners who are like thinking about coming to work with us. You get that too from, from Erica.

Erica Nash (50:44.876)

Yeah, for sure. And I think that's important. hopefully, we model it. And then our students also take that same process and incorporate it with their own clients so that they are on the same page and communicating and whatever and also not feeling like things have gone off the rails.

Shannon Mattern (51:12.479)

Yeah. Oh, so good. Okay. We have to wrap up because we have our live strategy call for the web designer Academy. Um, so I think we covered a lot of really good stuff in this episode and Erica, I had a blast. I think we're going to keep doing it like this. It was super fun. Um, and that's all we've got for you this week for our February, 2025 income report.

Erica Nash (51:14.958)

So good. My goodness.

Erica Nash (51:25.09)

We did.

Erica Nash (51:32.238)

Let's do it. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (51:41.427)

We will have so much more for you next month in our March income report. We'll have hosted the summit. We'll have got farther on our branding project. Probably made many more decisions that we'll tell you all about, but yeah, that's all we got for you this week. So thank you so much for listening. We'll see you back here next week. Bye everyone.