Welcome to episode 120 of the Profitable Web Designer Podcast! I am super excited to share this episode with you because over the next four weeks, I'm gonna be releasing our Profitable Web Design Business Vision, Planning, and Goals Workshop on the podcast. It's a workshop that I hosted way back at the end of 2022, and we still use the framework today inside of the Web Designer Academy and the Next Level Mastermind to start our goal-setting process.
In order to create a profitable, sustainable web design business, you gotta think, act, and make decisions like the CEO of your web design business and not an employee of your web design business. What I share with you over the next four episodes will help you make the shift from solopreneur to CEO so that you can weather the inevitable challenges that will come your way—whether that's in the world, in your personal life, in the market, or in the economy—and take advantage of any opportunities that 2025 will bring your way.
At the time of this recording, there are only a few weeks left in 2024, and it is the perfect time to decide what you want to create in your web design business in 2025 and how you want to think about it. If you're listening to this at any time in the future, these four episodes are something you can use to plan your business quarterly or annually. You can come back to these episodes over and over again and walk through this process as needed to plan the next phase of your business.
Over the next four episodes, I’m going to walk you through how to set goals, create a realistic schedule and plan for your time so you have the capacity to take action on your goals, and how to reverse engineer your pricing based on your personal revenue goals—not what you think clients can afford. We’ll also talk about learning to think and make decisions like the CEO of your web design business and selling profitable projects no matter what the world looks like.
I invite you to not just listen to these episodes but to also take some time to do the exercises I walk you through on paper. Your results will not change unless your actions change. You cannot keep thinking what you're thinking and doing what you're doing and expect to get different results. I’ll show you how to make that shift over the next four episodes, moving from where you are today to achieving the results you want in the future.
Get the Workbook
To get the workbook that I reference throughout these episodes, which includes all the exercises enter your name and email address below. I’ll send you a link to the workbook and add you to our email list so you receive all future episodes of the Profitable Web Designer Podcast. It’s the same workbook for all four episodes in the series, so you’ll have everything you need.
Key Takeaways from the Episode
In this episode, I dive into:
- Why targeting new business owners might be keeping you stuck.
- The 3 major shifts in the web design industry (and how they impact you).
- How to position yourself as a high-value consultant, not just a service provider.
- The power of focusing on ROI for your clients to justify premium prices.
- Why your website isn’t “just a commodity” – it’s a business’s most valuable asset.
A Breakdown of This Episode
- [00:01] Welcome to the Profitable Web Design Business Virtual Planning Retreat
- [10:54] Understanding the “employee mindset” and shifting to a CEO mindset
- [15:42] Why savvy business owners are looking for more than just a pretty website
- [22:48] How to package and price your services to reflect their true value
- [32:40] The importance of time management and aligning your schedule with your goals
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If you’re ready to stop undercharging, overdelivering, and burning out, tune into this episode now! Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a rating, and review. Your support helps us reach more web designers just like you!
Transcript
Shannon Mattern (00:01.432)
Good morning, everyone. Good afternoon. Good evening. Wherever you're here from. my gosh. I have been waiting for this day for so many months. I am so excited you are all here. So before we dive in, just want to make sure everyone can see me, can hear me and that we are good to go on that end. And then I'm going to let you guys. Awesome. Thank you, Karen.
I'm going to let you guys know how today is going to work. And then we are going to dive in and get started. So we have a bunch of people here jumping in today. have like over 150 people registered. I'm looking at 165 right now. So this is going to be so much fun. And I just really, really cannot wait for you to, you know, spend this time really like,
getting clear on what you want to do for your business in 2023. So we're gonna dive in in just a couple of minutes. I have a script. So if you're like, why is she looking down at the microphone? I'm looking at our script. I prescript everything that I do for you guys, because I have so much important stuff to cover that I don't want to miss anything. So, everyone.
I'm Shannon Maddern. I see a lot of familiar faces in the chat. see Web Designer Academy students in the chat. see applicants in the chat. I see people who I've seen at other events in the chat and a lot of new faces too. So welcome, welcome. I am your host for today. Our Web Designer Academy team is here today. So Erica Nash is our client success coordinator. She'll be popping in and out.
Our marketing and operations coordinator, Ali Playa is here in the chat. She'll be popping in and out today. So our team is here to support you and make sure that you have all the links that you need, that you know where you need to go and all of the things. So that being said, we 100 % expect to have tech issues. We have never done an event in the history of our events where we haven't had some.
Shannon Mattern (02:23.704)
sort of technical issue. So I live in the country, my internet gets like, I have a rural internet, it gets kind of sketchy sometimes. So I always have backup plans, but should we need to communicate with you about anything related to any kind of tech, snafus, we will email you, okay? So if something goes sideways and you're like, I don't know what happened, know, check.
check your inbox and we'll make sure that we're communicating with you on what is happening. So I want to give you a little tour of the platform that we're using, Crowdcast. So I love this platform. Someone asked me in the chat if I like it. So it's amazing. It's so, cool. So one, you're not on camera and your mic's not on. For this retreat, because there are so many people here, you're not on camera.
and no one can hear you, no one can see you, there are going to be some opportunities for people to get some coaching if you want to. And you can turn on your, if that's the case and you say, hey, yeah, I would like to do that, then we can bring you on stage quote unquote. And I'm pretty sure you could keep your camera off if you wanted to, we could have a conversation. Totally optional for you to do that. can also talk through some things in the chat. So this is...
while we can't see you and hear you, this is gonna be an interactive opportunity for you to get some coaching, some support on some of the things that we're gonna go through today. So in the top left-hand side of Crowdcast, you'll see schedule and it says 11 a.m. We're gonna be in four different rooms for each part of this retreat. So when you click up on that schedule link, you'll see like a thing slide out and it'll say,
11 a.m. 1230 to 330 those it says that for me I'm an Eastern time zone not sure if it says it in your time zone or not it'll say live on the session that we're on so if you get lost click on schedule find the room that says live join us there live the recordings will be available awesome so it does show local time for you guys that's why I love this platform so that's amazing I love that it's telling you your time zone
Shannon Mattern (04:46.84)
So you'll know exactly when each session is starting. Is there an option for closed captioning, Yvette? That is a great question. I have not seen an option for closed captioning. If we have time between this session and the next session, I will look up that option. So that's a great question. So you guys found the chat awesome. There is also a Q &A box.
So if you look to the right of the chat, you'll see like two speech bubbles stacked. That's the chat. If you click below that, that's the Q and A. And when it's time, if you have a question at all, instead of putting it in the chat and it's going to get lost way up the chat feed, put it in the Q and A box. And then when we have sessions for Q and A, I'm going to go to that Q and A box and I'm going to look at those questions. So.
Chat amongst yourselves in the chat. I may ask you to share some things as we're going through the retreat in the chat. But when you have questions that you want me to answer during the Q &A periods that we're going to have during each session, put that in the question box. And then if you have a question, I might say to you, would you like to come on and talk about that with me?
You are more than welcome to say, no, thanks. I don't want to come on camera. I don't feel comfortable coming on camera. Totally cool. We can still support you whether you come on camera or not. We do it all the time in our live coaching calls inside the web designer academy where someone is live on the call, but they can't be, can't, or don't want to be on camera for whatever reason. We're like, cool, just answer my questions in the chat. I'll coach you that way. So we want you to be cozy, comfortable.
And I've got a candle lit. I've got my coffee. I've got my water. I've got a notebook. So get all of those things together. Get comfy and cozy because we are going to do some deep, deep work today. And it's going to be super fun, but it's also going to be like really impactful work on your web design business. So you saw the agenda by clicking on the schedule. So that's all there. So.
Shannon Mattern (07:12.99)
Once we wrap up this, we'll take a break. We'll meet in the next room. When we wrap up that, we'll take a break. We'll meet in the next room. So that's how that is going to work out. Feel free to do whatever you need to do whenever you need to do it. You know, obviously like you're here live, you're making the time for this, but if you need to get up and go do something, get up and go do it. It's being recorded. So you'll, you'll be able to come back to this. So like I said, I have a script.
To make sure that I cover everything we give our scripts. We give our students scripts for everything we do too. Like we don't think people should have to A pretend like they have memorized it all and B start from scratch. So Lisa, the schedule is in the top left of your screen. Yep. You just, it says schedule. There's a time there and you just click, click on that and you'll see like a thing will pop out and you'll see.
the schedule for the day. So that is our housekeeping. Do you guys have any questions before we dive into what we're gonna be doing today?
Shannon Mattern (08:25.876)
Before I take a sip of coffee and then a sip of water, we're going to dive in.
Shannon Mattern (08:36.366)
Okay. Crystal, thank you. Thank you. That is actually a coffee mug that is custom designed by our own client success coordinator, and Ash. And we send one to all of our web designer Academy students when they join. So it's so cool on our live strategy calls to see everybody sipping coffee out of that mug. All right. So I'm going to share some slides with you guys.
And then we are gonna get started. Session one show, perfect. Okay, back to the chat. Awesome, okay. So welcome to the Profitable Web Design Business Virtual Planning Retreat. So whether you are here with us live on this workshop or you have set aside time to do this in the future,
to go over the exercises on your own. What we're going to do together over the next few hours is going to pave the way for you to create the web design business that you have been dreaming of over the next 12 months and beyond. So this work that we're going to do here is so, so important. It is going to really be the difference between, you know, you like,
staying stuck in the hustle and undercharging and over delivering and all of those things to really creating a profitable, sustainable and scalable web design business. So I need to find, let me, there's, there we go. I was like, where do I change my slides? Like we'll get a, we'll get a handle on this. the fact that you are even here today listening to this.
tells me that you have the drive and the desire and the commitment to create the web design business of your dreams. And we are going to take time to design that today. So I want you to get ready to get really, really clear on your vision for the next 12 months, plan out your project schedule for at least the next quarter, if not the next 12 months, set some new revenue goals, reverse engineer your pricing and start thinking and operating.
Shannon Mattern (10:54.924)
like the CEO of your web design business for the next few hours. these four sessions are really designed for you to get as much value, inspiration, and education, and mindset breakthroughs, and aha moments as possible in a few short hours. So if you're here live, amazing, please take the time to get any and all questions that you have answered, like about...
And you'll know more of what I'm talking about when we get into things. But we want you to walk away really, really confident about your plan for the next year. So for those of you who don't know me, my name is Shannon Maddern and I'm the founder and CEO of the Web Designer Academy, where we have helped hundreds of web designers make the shift from undercharging and over delivering and pixel pushing to creating profitable, sustainable, dreamy.
web design businesses. And I'm also the host of the Profitable Web Designer podcast. And most recently, the new host of the Simply Profitable Designer Summit, which is the number one online educational event for designers. I'm so excited to be hosting that in March. We'll send you guys out all the information on that. So I am super, super passionate about helping web designers get sold on the true value that they bring to their clients so that they can confidently raise their prices.
Bookturing clients while working less and living more. And I'm so, so excited to like put you on the path to that today. So I have a Google Doc workbook for you. Let me get through that. I have a Google Doc workbook for you. We are going to give you that in a second. So you don't have that yet. So just know when it's time for that workbook, we are going to, we're going to give that to you. And we have a Google Doc version.
and a PDF version, if you prefer to have a PDF version, but before we dive into our, our working sessions for today, I just want to take some time to talk about the current state of the web design industry and what we see happening right now so that you can plan from a place of being like forward thinking and on the cutting edge of what's happening instead of like being in reaction mode. Okay. So.
Shannon Mattern (13:14.536)
We are in a really, really unique position inside of the web designer academy, where we have worked closely with hundreds and hundreds of web designers over the past several years. We've looked at thousands of web designer academy applications over the years. And what we have seen in the past, like 12 to 18 months is really unlike what I have seen over the past six years since I founded the web designer academy. So there have been three significant shifts.
just in the the web design industry, the business space as a whole that we cannot ignore if as we are supporting our students to create and profitable, sustainable, thriving businesses over the next 12 months. And these are things that are going to really help you as you plan your business out for the next 12 months. So the first shift is a shift in the market. And I'm sure you all have noticed this.
This is not anything new. This is actually something that I see in your applications all the time. And it's been happening for years. There is an endless array of sophisticated website platform building platforms. Show it square space. Shopify there's new ones coming out all the time. Like I see them in web designer Academy applications. And I'm like, I have not seen this platform before that this person has built a website on. So.
Sophisticated website building platforms, tools, trainings, tutorials, templates, gorgeous templates, SAS products that continue to level the playing field between designers and DIYers. How many of you like have the thought, well, why would anyone ever hire me when they could just go do it themselves on Squarespace or show it because they have beautiful templates and it's so gorgeous. Right. So.
There is a shift in the market where the playing field is being leveled between web designers and DIYers and the barrier to entry, not just to get a website, but a fantastic looking website, a sophisticated website online is lower than ever before, right? The truth is most new business owners don't need to hire a web designer. They can absolutely do it themselves.
Shannon Mattern (15:42.19)
And so the shift our clients inside the web designer academy are making and the shift I want you to like start exploring in your own mind today is that to not only stay relevant in the age of practically nonexistent barriers to entry to building a decent website, but to also charging 10K, 15K, 20K for projects.
is to work with clients who already have websites, who have already survived the startup stage, who are ready to invest in customized solutions and deep support, who know that even though they can do it themselves or outsource parts of it, they don't want to. There are so many business owners out there that are done with DIY. They want an experienced consultant to come in
and learn about their business, help them spot opportunities that will help them create a return on investment and then just handle it. And I can promise you every single business owner out there, they don't, they can't spot their own opportunities in their blind spots. They just can't see them. They are on the inside of their business looking out. They cannot see what you can see as a web designer. They don't work in the industry day in and day out like you do. They don't work with multiple clients.
solving multiple problems all the time like you do. know more than so many other, than the DIYer. You know more, you have more value to bring. Okay, so you have to believe that and that is the shift that is happening is, you know, people are gonna ask the question, well, why should I hire you if I could just do it myself? That's the question we help our students answer.
and it's a shift in your mindset and it's this shift in who you're targeting. So if you are still targeting new business owners or business owners on a budget, it is going to be harder and harder for you to justify charging prices that are sustainable for you when the fact of the matter is it is pretty cheap and easy to DIY, okay? It does not require you to develop more skills to help these business owners who are ready to pay more and to work with you. It does not require you to
Shannon Mattern (18:09.59)
change anything, it simply requires you to look at what you do for your clients in a completely different way than how you've been looking at it. And you're going to go on that journey of looking at it differently throughout this retreat today. So this, and just kind of back to that, you're never going to be able to convince someone that like, well like,
working with a designer is better because X, Y, Z. You have got to speak to the people who already are ready for that. And that's what we do. So the second thing, the second shift, the second thing we're seeing with our students clients right now, I'm seeing it in every coaching program and mastermind I'm in to help me grow my business. We're hearing it all over the place is
savvy business owners are noticing that what was working before and during the pandemic to market and sell their programs, products and services is not working like it used to. And there are so many reasons for this, but the way marketing and sales is happening is undergoing another revolution. Okay. So fun ads and funnels don't work the way that they used to work.
There are so many tactics and strategies that used to be like tried and true that are no longer tried and true, no longer creating the same results that they used to create. And so now more than ever, businesses are investing in training and mentorship and all kinds of different strategies to help them navigate the next phase.
and figure out what's going to work for them and their unique business and industry, which means a lot of businesses right now are reinventing themselves. They're rebranding, they're offering new services, they're trying new marketing strategies, they need to pivot to stay relevant. And the great news for every single one of you here is that every couple of years, when a business outgrows itself or has to make a pivot or shift or something changes with the economy, it means that they need you.
Shannon Mattern (20:22.71)
It means that they're continuously investing in the right kinds of support to help them get strategically set up and to make the shifts and make the pivots. It's never a one and done thing. If a business is not evolving in its tech and its strategy, it's not going to be around very much longer. There are so many savvy business owners out there who know this and are working on their next evolution who need you.
So the third shift that we're seeing, and I'm really proud of us inside of the Web Designer Academy and a lot of my other colleagues in the industry. I feel like we're leading this charge and we're really helping to shift this perception. So the third shift we're seeing is in the perception of value, in the value of a website itself, where savvy business owners, again,
no longer see their website as just a commodity to be had at the lowest price or a business expense that just takes money out of their bank account, they're seeing it as a revenue generating asset that they have full control over that's worth investing in. We as web designers, we've been saying it for years, but the importance of putting your intellectual property and customer journey and audience in the hands of a platform you don't own is
You cannot put a price on owning your own platform. We see it all over the news. Platforms changing and selling and the iOS ads and privacy stuff. There's so many things going on. However, it's not your job to convince people that, you need a website because you shouldn't just do everything on social media because you don't own it. You don't need to...
You don't need to convince people who don't believe it. There are plenty of people who already know it, who are lining up to work with someone to help them. Okay? So you don't need to spend all this time and energy trying to convince people that they shouldn't be on social media. They should have a website. They, you know, shouldn't be on this platform. They should be on this platform. There are plenty of people out there for you.
Shannon Mattern (22:48.556)
And all you have to do is speak directly to them instead of trying to convince people who aren't, who aren't ready for you to be ready for you. Okay. So websites were king before social media. Like I'm like looking all around. I'm like, the nineties are back. Like my high school outfits are back. Websites are having a Renaissance just like the nineties are having a Renaissance right now. Okay. I don't think they ever went away, but
You see so many people who are like, wait, yeah, like that's important. And they're finally ready. Right? So I'm really just scratching the surface of what is going on right now in the web design space. And the beautiful thing about being a web designer is that things are constantly changing and evolving business. Businesses have to constantly change and evolve to keep up. And that means for you, there is a never ending well of opportunity to serve.
savvy clients at a higher level. And these are things that literally have happened in just the past few months in the web designer academy that clients are paying $18,000 for a website. Clients are paying $10,000 for a website. Clients are still paying a premium to work with a premium level of service, right? To build websites on platforms like Squarespace, ShowIt, WordPress,
page builders, not custom coded sites from scratch. Okay. So this is happening now. And this is something that you get to take advantage of. So I just want to want to show you that what we're seeing with our students in the web designer Academy now more than ever, their clients are investing in higher end web design services. And it might seek seem counterintuitive with all that you're hearing. Like, the economy is like,
bad, things are uncertain, inflation is super high. Clients are easily able to sell higher ticket web design projects even in this economic climate while other web designers are struggling to sell lower priced services. So we're going to talk about that and why that is and what shifts you need to make. But why is this the case? This is the case because value is more important than price.
Shannon Mattern (25:11.138)
to the right kinds of clients, especially now. So what do I mean by value? Value equals emotional outcomes plus personal outcomes plus business outcomes minus price. So think about this. If Rachel is selling an $18,000 website to an interior designer who designs interiors for like rental properties,
The perceived value of that to that client is way, way, way more than $18,000 because that designer knows if I just book one client for my design services with this website, that creates some business outcomes, but it also creates some personal and emotional outcomes for me that are worth way more than $18,000. It's a no brainer. So your services get to be designed around value.
And not price and like a lot of the I hear you guys tell me the market saturated. There's so many web designers out there. There's so much competition and you're right and you can't do what everybody else is doing. You can't just sell five pages and branding and e-commerce and expect people to see the value in that you have to talk about what you're doing in a completely different way.
and speak to clients who are ready for that. So that's what we're going to talk about today. So I wanted to share that with you because I just want you to see there is a well of opportunity there for you to create whatever it is you want to create. People can't like if you're if you're going to have the belief like, okay, the economy is is like in an iffy spot right now.
people can't afford to spend money on things that aren't gonna create the results. So it makes more sense to invest at a higher level for something that is going to create them results than to spend less money on something that's not going to. So I just wanna kind of frame what is happening in the industry and we are gonna go even deeper into this tomorrow, but this is what we do inside of our Web Designer Academy.
Shannon Mattern (27:38.606)
Applications are open. We're accepting them right now and tomorrow we are hosting a private training exclusively for accepted applicants to walk you through what exactly our students include in their packages to help them charge five to 10 times more than what they were charging before working with us. And so it's happening tomorrow at 1 p.m. Eastern. I'm going to put a button up. You can fill out your application.
Allie and, or not Erica, but Allie is standing by to review those. And if you meet the criteria, we will send you an invitation to learn more about what it looks like to work with us. It's zero pressure, zero obligation. If we invite you to tomorrow's training, it's just to learn more about specifically our process and what it looks like to work with us. So go ahead and fill that out and we will get you an invitation to tomorrow's training at 1 PM Eastern.
or send you the recording if you can't attend live. So let's dive in.
Shannon Mattern (28:47.49)
I think I already said this, there's never been a better time for you to create a profitable web design business.
Shannon Mattern (28:56.16)
All right, so let's dive in to the work of our first session. This is our profitable planning. So I'm going to get, we're going to grab a link for you and pop that in the chat. Erica is going to pop that in the chat. She's going to give you a link. The first one's going to be to a Google Doc that you can make a copy of. And the second one's going to be just to like a PDF version if
It's not an editable PDF, but a PDF version that you could print and work through that way if you prefer to handwrite. So we're going to dive into session one as soon as that link gets popped in the chat there. looks like, yeah, you can click on that. Cool. OK.
Shannon Mattern (29:55.468)
Let give you guys just a couple seconds to make a copy of your workbook.
And then we're gonna dive into session one.
Shannon Mattern (30:11.48)
Ahem.
Shannon Mattern (30:19.256)
So I keep saying profitable, sustainable web design business, profitable, sustainable web design business. And that in this web design business retreat, planning your profitable web design business. So what do I mean by profitable? I wanna make sure we are on the same page when I'm saying the word profitable so that you know exactly what I'm talking about. So when I say profitable,
I mean that you are charging sustainably, which means you're charging enough that you're paying yourself the amount of money you want to make to do life you want or need to do life. Right? So first we start out with how much we need, and then we work our way up to how much we want. Those might be two totally different numbers, right? So you're paying yourself. You're able to pay for your business investments. So.
Your investments are your tools that you need to grow your web design business. People talk all the time about like, should I buy the developer version of this plugin? It's $300. Should I buy like the pro version of Dubsado? It's X. I don't know how much it costs, but I, should I pay for this email marketing tool? Like, should like,
All of these things that are going to help you run your business more quickly, more easily, and help you serve your clients better, those are your investments. You think of them as expenses probably right now, but they are actually things that when you spend money on them, they allow you to either get more time or more money. So you have got to shift how you think about the money that you spend in your business. Every single thing that you spend money on in your business should go through
the filter of how is this going to help me make more money? How is buying this developer version of the plugin going to allow me to either create more time or create more money? so stop thinking of that stuff as expenses. Start thinking of it as investments, trainings that you do, things that you do to level up your skills, mentorship, coaching.
Shannon Mattern (32:40.554)
All of that stuff, those are all investments. Those are all things that are going to allow you to create more time, more money. And if it doesn't, then if you can't think of how that's going to help you create more time and more money, then you get to question whether that's something that you want to spend your money on. So it means that you are charging enough to pay yourself the amount of money that you need to make to live, to do life, to pay your bills.
And we're going to get into these exact numbers a little bit later to pay for your tools, your training, your mentorship, and to pay your taxes because you have to pay taxes out of the money you make. don't, I mean, I'm not an expert in tax law in any country, let alone the U S but we have to pay taxes on the money that we bring in. So you're charging sustainably to cover all of that. You are not making your price. You're not picking a price based on what you think your clients can afford.
You're choosing a price based on what you need to run your business sustainably. And we'll talk about what that is. And actually in session two, we'll get that number. It means that you're not overworking. a profitable business means that you have time. You have time for life. It is not worth
making a bunch of money to just be working all the time and have zero time for life. Okay. It's not just about the money. It's about your time. It's about your mental energy, your physical energy and your quality of life. And when your web design business is profitable, you have an abundance of time. You have space in your calendar. You're not working 24 seven. You have time for self care, for a family, for hobbies. You don't stress yourself out. You have a healthy mindset around your business. And when you
are when you truly have a profitable web design business, you are in full control. You decide who you're working with, when you're working with them, and how much it costs to work with you, not the other way around. And a lot of you here, and a lot of the applications that I see, you have that backwards. You have it backwards. It's like, how much will someone pay me? They want to start their project now. I have to work to get this done. You have a...
Shannon Mattern (34:54.877)
employee mindset and you need to shift into a CEO mindset. We hope that you leave here today with a CEO mindset. So from that place of profitable and being in full control and full possibility and opportunity and abundance, that's the place that I want you to plan the next 12 months. Not from what your business looks like today, right? Let's set aside what things look like today.
And we are going to design the future of our business from what we want it to be from a place to full of full control. Okay. So to create a profitable business, you need four things. And these are the four things that we're going to work on today. A guiding vision for what you want your life and your business to look like a plan for your time, because your time is your only resource that is finite. A plan for your money that aligns with your time.
and your vision and a plan for your mindset because your thoughts about your business, about what people will pay you, about your clients, about what's possible for you, those create your feelings, your feelings drive your actions, your actions dictate your results. And you can have the best plan in the world, but if your mindset is not aligned with what it takes to execute that plan, you won't take the sometimes uncomfortable or scary actions to execute your plan and you won't create the results that you really want.
So how many of you coming in here today have at least one of these four things? And I want to know what it is.
Shannon Mattern (36:39.714)
Go ahead and tell me in the chat. Sharon has a plan for her time. Yes, Sharon is a Web Designer Academy student.
Shannon Mattern (36:52.366)
Kara or Kara, not sure which, needs all four, amazing, you're gonna do that today. Melanie, plan for your time, you're gonna do that today. Alicia, plan for your money. Lashay, a plan for your mind. Crystal needs to plan for her time really badly. Angela has elements of all four, good, we're gonna fill in any gaps that you need filled in today. Cynthia can work on all four. Anshin needs a plan for her time and money. Beverly needs all four.
Let's see. Awesome. Deanna needs to get her guiding vision. Robin's working too much, needs to plan for her time. Awesome. Okay, so we're going to do all of these today. So excited to dive in. Melissa says all for mostly time. Okay. So in this, we're going to start off in this session for the rest of this session. We're going to work on your time and your vision.
your vision first, excuse me, and then your time. And then in the next one, we're going to work on your money and we're going to have some coaching time at the end of that. And then in the next one, we're going to work on the final two is really we're going to work on your mindset. So that's what we're going to be doing for the rest of the time. So I'm going to take that apply now button away.
For now, we'll put it back up for you guys later. If you haven't clicked on that, just open up the application. I'm gonna put, nope, I'm gonna leave that there. think the docs, the Google docs are already in the chat, so I think we're good there. So, step one is our vision.
So you can go ahead and open up your workbook. I'm gonna share my screen and open up my workbook.
Shannon Mattern (38:47.586)
have my copy share. I love this tool.
Shannon Mattern (38:58.484)
Awesome. So don't start yet because I want to set the set the stage of what we're going to do here. So I want you to open up your Google Doc to page one where it says vision. You should see this. And sorry, I like see a tail wagging outside my window. like, how did my dog get outside? My husband let her out. So most planning sessions, if you've ever worked in corporate.
Like, if you've ever worked in corporate or currently working in corporate and you have like your strategic plan for the year, they go something like this. How much money do I want to make next year? Let me list out all of the things that I need to do to reach that goal. And then let me like prioritize that list. And that's my plan. And then I'm going to take all of those to-dos and I'm going to like put them on the calendar by this date.
because we have to have smart goals. have to be specific measure achievable. It's relevant time-bound. I'm going to say, I'm going to get this thing done by this date. like, we create this like plan. And then I don't know about you guys, but for me, that plan like, like went in a folder somewhere on our server and nobody ever looked at it again and nobody ever met the dates. like, none of it ever happens. Like it was just all kind of like this thing that happened in like a dream life and
or it sounded good, but like nobody was ever really prepared to actually execute on it because it didn't align with like, nobody knew why we were even doing it. So that is not what we are going to do here today. Okay. The problem with doing something like that, like just having this like, here's how much money I need to make. Here's all the things here's, you know, the to-do list. I'm gonna put it on the calendar. It doesn't take into account your life.
You are in the very unique position where you because you own the business, you're the boss of the business, you get to decide everything. You get to intentionally design a business that supports your life, not the other way around. And if you've been doing it the other way around, 2023 is your time to take control of it. Okay. You get to decide that. And one of the best ways
Shannon Mattern (41:17.356)
to not only decide it, but then to give yourself the best chance of making it happen is to visualize it in advance. And then from the place of having already happened in your mind, we'll plan out your time and your money and your mindset and what you're going to do to create that vision. So I wanna give you a quick example of how visualization works and then I'm gonna give you some time to actually do this. So before I had the profitable web designer podcast,
I had, I had the pep talks for side hustlers podcast. So this whole other side of my business where I taught DIYers how to build their own website and do it all themselves. And I had a podcast for them called pep talks for side hustlers because I was a side hustler at that time in my business. A lot of my students on that side of my business were side hustlers and every single month I would write an income report and I would list out, here's how much money here's like what happened in my business that month.
Here's how much money we made. Here's how much I spent to make it. Here are all the lessons learned along the way. And I did that every single month. And one year, it was September of 2021, I had the idea to pre-write my income report for December. I don't know where this idea came from. I'm sure I didn't make it up.
But I had the idea to pre-write my income report for 2021. And I was about to raise my prices for the Web Designer Academy. We were about to, I don't know if it was the year, no, it wasn't the year that we converted it from like a self-study course to a high touch group coaching program, but I think it was like the second year. So we were about to raise our prices because I wanted to hire Ali and Erica and add resources to the program. And I was feeling a little unsure.
ever like I do every single time when I increase my price. It's like I have all the thoughts about it, right? I do. You guys do. It never stops that whenever we increase the price, I have thoughts about it. And I'm thinking like, what if it's not worth it? What if no one joins like all of the things and just like a bunch of mind trash as we call it in the web designer Academy. And so I thought, what if instead of ruminating on all of the mind trash and all of the what ifs, I just
Shannon Mattern (43:36.754)
imagine and tell the story of the best case scenario of what happened that month. And so I did. And it wasn't just, opened the doors for the web designer academy. Here's how many people enrolled and here's how much money we That was not the story. The story was I went into detail about how I felt. I went into detail about what my days looked like. I went into detail about when I was working, when I wasn't working.
I went into detail about every single person that did enroll and what they were able to create as a result of working with us. I went into detail about what my vision was for my clients, for our students, what our team looked like, what I was doing when I wasn't working, my self-care patterns, then how many people enrolled, why they enrolled, why they chose to work with us, how much money we made not only that day, but in future payment plans.
how much of that I invested back into the business in terms of team tools and training, how those investments back into the business helped our students, how I celebrated our most successful enrollment to date and how, and I even imagined, like I said, like the future success stories of the students that enrolled that day in my completely imaginary scenario that I wrote down as if it had already happened. If I was telling the story to someone as if it already happened.
And it was so freaky. But my December that year, our open enrollment in December that year went almost exactly as I wrote it. Like it freaked me out. It was a little unsettling, honestly, like when I went back and I read it. But what I realized was the way I was operating in my thoughts beforehand, what if it doesn't work out? What if people don't enroll? What if this? What if that? That was giving my brain a
a set of operating instructions for how to act. So if I'm feeling nervous and worried and whatever, and I go into having conversations with people from that place, how do you think they're going to feel when they're talking to me? They're going to be like, don't think so. No. If I'm going into it from a place of like, my gosh, look what is possible for you when you work with us.
Shannon Mattern (45:59.808)
If you're going to your clients from a place of look at what is possible for you when you work with me and you truly believe it, that's the part we'll talk about that later. You're giving your brain a clear set of operating instructions for how to operate. Okay, so I realized I had given myself when I wrote that as if it had already happened, I'm like, this now go make this happen brain. Now go do this. I had a clear vision.
a why that had way more impact than just money in the bank. We all love money. Money is great. Money is necessary. However, we do this for more than that and a clear set of boundaries to operate within. So I do this every single year and we do a similar exercise with our students inside of module two in the web designer academy.
because we want to make sure that we're creating packages, pricing systems and processes that are aligned with our goals for our life.
instead of what we have to do when we work for someone else, which is work our life around our job.
So.
Shannon Mattern (47:17.312)
Okay, I was hearing that some of you are frozen. Some of you are not frozen. If you just refresh your browser and come back, you should be good. We're still recording. So I'll give you all a second to do that. You refreshed. It's working now. Awesome. Cool. That could be my internet. That could be Crowdcast. I'm not entirely sure, but we'll just roll with it, right?
We'll roll with it. Cool. So I was explaining, I don't know how long I was frozen for, but I was explaining that like, when you create a clear vision of the future, you're basically giving your brain some operating instructions and you're installing that programming into yourself. And then you are going to take actions from that place instead of taking actions from a place of worry.
So I do this exercise every year and I'm gonna invite you to do it now. And I wanna give you guys like 10 minutes to write the story of what happened in your business over the next 12 months. So very important key nuances here.
you are imagining that it's December 31st, 2023. Okay, it's December 1st, 2023, or one year from whenever you're watching this. And you are telling the story of what has already happened. What has already happened. So instead of saying something like, by December 31st of 2023, I want to have booked five $10,000 web design projects.
you are going to say, I booked five $10,000 web design projects. You are going to write this story as if it already happened. So go into the future.
Shannon Mattern (49:21.542)
Get in your time machine, go there, write the story as if it already happened for your best case scenario, for what you really, really want. Set aside possibility, set aside what has already been happening in your business and what your business looks like today. Doesn't matter for this exercise, we don't care. We want you to say, booked, everything is past tense, it's already happened. I booked this many clients.
This is how I spent my days. This is what I did when I wasn't working. I don't want to see the word want to or any kind of future thing that's not a sure thing in that language. So we don't need to know how it happened or anything. You can work on that later. So write the story of what did your days look like? What did your week look like? What did you work? What did you not work? What did you do when you weren't working? How did you spend your
summers, weekends, holidays, what were your clients like? What types of work did you say yes or no to? What clients did you stop working with? What clients did you fire? How much money did you make? What did you do with the money? How did you feel? For the clients you did work with, what results did they go on to create? So tell that story from the past tense, it already happened, okay? So I'm gonna give you 10 minutes to do that. I'm gonna turn my camera off. You can work in your doc.
And then we will come back and I would love if anyone would like to share, can pop some things in the chat or come on camera if you want. And then we will go from there. So, yeah.
Shannon Mattern (01:03:33.972)
All right, so you guys can have just a minute more to finish up and then we're gonna move on to the next part. So for those of you who are done, I would love for you to just copy and paste into the chat, just not your whole vision, but just like your favorite part of your vision. The part that is like, if this happened, I would be so freaking excited.
So I want you to pop those in the chat. other, people can see examples of like the parts of your vision that just like light you up, about like, yes, this, this is my vision. And if right now you're like, yeah, this is great, but I don't think this, this is possible stick around because by the end of session three, we're going to talk about like thinking like a CEO and making CEO decisions. And how do you go from like,
I'm writing this vision from a place of like, it already happened, but I don't quite believe yet. We're gonna talk about how do you create the belief in session three. So then there was some other talk as you guys are finishing up and posting in the chat of.
This is great, Shannon. I come to these retreats. do these vision sessions, but then I check the box on my homework and never look at it again. And I go back to, as Marina said, like work mode. I just go back into work mode. You must take intentional action to create your vision. And we're going to talk about that later on today about like, what does that look like? And
what does it look like to take intentional action to create your vision instead of just checking the box like, that's my vision, that would be nice. I'm gonna go back to doing everything the same way I've always done it and expect to create my vision. You cannot keep doing what you've always done to get something different than what you've always been getting, okay? So that's why we take our vision. So I just wanna read a few of these.
Shannon Mattern (01:05:51.29)
Sharon made a total of $187,000. It's very specific. I love it. And used the money to pay off bills, go on a nice summer vacay and spoil her grandkids. Sarah worked a very structured, defined day, 8.30 to 4, four days a week, no evenings. Monday mornings were dedicated to her own business growth. Fridays completely off and she knows exactly what she's doing on those days. Crystal booked four clients at $12,500 each.
and another eight at 59.87. I love the specificity. Most months I was able to sign on a new client. I signed on zero new ones and then signed up two in one month. And so she was very specifically focused on like what happened and she feels relieved. She feels relieved with her results. Sarah maintained her current business income with just one custom client a month.
Cynthia has two gold packages completed with her new graphic design partner. Deanna spent two hours a day, five days a week, 10 hours a week on top of her full-time job, let go of her $20 per hour clients, and created new tech support packages. She repackaged her pricing to be at least $120 an hour, and she earned
an extra $17,000 for the year. I earned approximately $45,000 to $59,600 for the year. This is so totally possible. I just want you to know our Web Designer Academy students do this all the time. Jenis comfortably said, love when the thing that you're most excited about is saying no to stuff that doesn't align with you.
Made seven grand a month and paid off all of our debts and had two big vacations with the family. Licia taught over eight webinars and five in-person workshops with 50 paid attendees each. Miriam booked five 10K projects, 10 monthly maintenance clients at 300 a month. Tekelia booked five new clients a month this year, landed her first 10K client, opened a college savings, took family on Disney vacay.
Shannon Mattern (01:08:16.786)
Kim has a minimum of 20 clients on her care plan. Erin felt like she could actually enjoy life and not worry about how she's going to pay for stuff. Lashay said, it's been an amazing year. She had to stop herself from working so much because she loves what she does. And she paid herself 80 grand for the year and that wasn't even 50 % of what she brought in. Paid off 34 % of her student loan.
20 clients at her package at her $7,500 package and paid herself 15 grand a month by June. I mean, you guys are, I could keep reading these and reading these, go back and read these. These are incredible. And they're possible. They are all possible. So we're gonna work on that in the next step. So let me take down, no.
I don't think I need to take that down. So I just want to remind you tomorrow at 1 p.m. Eastern, we're hosting a private training exclusively for accepted applicants. We'll go into detail on the strategy that we use with our clients to help them create those results. So all you have to do is fill out the application for the Web Designer Academy. Enrollment is open now to be invited to the training. We'll share more with you about our strategies and about our program.
and give you all of the information to decide if working with us over the next 12 months is right for you or not right for you, because it may not be right for you, but you get to find out if it is. So step number two that we're going to get into is time blocking. So I'm going to stop sharing my... There we go. I love this Crowdcast. It's so cool. Okay. So step two is time blocking. Now that we have the vision,
We get to reverse engineer our time to align with our vision and your time is finite. I think you all know that there are 24 hours in a day and we don't know how long we have on this earth. That is the truth. And because our time is finite, the number of clients and projects that you take on is limited. And so we are going to plan ahead for at least the next quarter from January through March, at least if you have time, if you have time.
Shannon Mattern (01:10:42.116)
in the session, we are going to plan farther than that. can plan ahead as far as you want so that you know how many clients you can realistically take on in a specific period of time while still having a life and making the amount of money you want to make. We want you to be booked out and not burnt out. And so you can't be booked out if you don't know how many spots you have.
available to clients. So we're going to figure out how many spots you have available to clients. We want you booked out and not burnt out. And the mistake I see most people make, they put their clients first, their personal life second, and their own business isn't even on the list. Like the health of their own business isn't even on the list. So we don't want you having to work with so many clients
that you actually don't have time for anything else. Cause that's what happens. You keep your prices so low. You keep your prices so low that you have to have tons and tons and tons of clients to create the revenue that you want to create, to create the life you want to create. And if you would just raise your prices, you'd be able to work with less clients and have way more time. So we need to know what your time looks like.
so that we can kind of reverse and engineer into what your pricing can look like. Because guess what? It takes the same amount of effort and energy to sell, let's say $197 template as it does to sell a $10,000 web design project. I'm gonna say that again. It takes just as much time, effort and energy to sell $197 template.
as it does to sell a $10,000 web design project. So why wouldn't you want to be selling $10,000 web design projects all day? You probably have a lot of thoughts about that. We're going to talk about that in CEO decisions, but we want to get you to the place where you have shifted your mindset about the value and what's possible for you. So this time blocking process is a process that we want you to do quarterly in your business. So you can come back to this anytime you want.
Shannon Mattern (01:12:57.15)
and we want this is just this is just an example your life does not look need to look like this or have to look like this this is just an example of like what a profitable sustainable schedule can look like and you're going to you're going to create your own okay so i can pull that slide back up if you guys want to see this as that as we walk back through this but for now you get to design your own schedule so i'm going to go back to
sharing my screen, sharing my Chrome tab, sharing my Google Doc here. So the next step for you.
Let's see. I have a project calendar for 12 months of 2023, but I want you to come down here to time blocking this time blocking page. So that is page. I don't know what page is going to be for you now that your pages are probably different, but it looks like this. And this is the. This is the page that we're going to be working with first, so.
Shannon Mattern (01:14:07.184)
The first thing that we want to do.
Shannon Mattern (01:14:14.406)
You know what? I'm going to take that back. I want to start with I want to start with the next three months.
I like, I was getting, was like, there's a reason this is an order in the workbook the way that it is. So let's start with the next three months, starting January, February, March. I want you to like, look at your life, your life, your personal life calendar. And I want you to block the days that you are, that you're not working. Like you have things scheduled for that. You have, other commitments, you have holidays. this is going to really be unique to everyone.
And just so you guys know, you guys all probably have like a different calendaring system that you use. You might have a paper planner. You might use Google calendar. You might use Asana, ClickUp, like whatever for purposes of like this planning. I encourage you to just use this document to get the vision of what we're doing here. If you use something else in the future, you can transfer what you have done to however you manage your schedule. I have a friend that like does
her paper planner in pen, it horrifies me. I'm like, you're so confident it's gonna go that way that you're like writing it in pen. like, need, I do mine in pencil. Because we get to have that flexibility, right? But we get to plan ahead for what we want. So go to your January, 2023. This is gonna be unique to everyone. There's no right or wrong way to do this. Some people are gonna block their weekends as like,
Weekends, non-negotiable, I don't work weekends. Some people won't. We probably all celebrate different holidays. You probably have different family commitments. You might have some travel coming up, some vacation plans, things that are going on with your kids. If you're like me, you'll block weekends and Mondays and probably half days on Fridays. So go ahead and take a couple of minutes to block those days on the calendar, however you block days. So you can literally just come in here and you can just write block.
Shannon Mattern (01:16:18.904)
on it, you could, it does not matter how you do this.
Shannon Mattern (01:16:26.588)
So you can do it your own way. actually, we're closed through, I think, Tuesday or Wednesday. I think Tuesday. I have a couple of things I'm doing that I'm not really working that day. I think one of this, this might be a holiday, President's Day or something in the US.
I think there's like a conference that I might be attending a virtual conference I might be attending these days. So we want you to go through and block what that looks like for you. So go ahead and take a few minutes to do that. And if you guys, if I freeze or if you can't hear me, just go ahead and refresh Crowdcast. It shouldn't kick you out or anything. And that should should take care of it. So take three minutes.
five minutes and just block your personal no work times, however you want to do that on this calendar.
Shannon Mattern (01:17:47.986)
So Sabrina says, what if I don't know right now? What do you know right now? I would say, or is there anything that you do know right now that you can absolutely put on that calendar?
Shannon Mattern (01:18:03.3)
What ones are you sure of? So we're going to this right now is just like the sure that the sure things that you know, you might not have any sure things that you know, we're going to move into after this. How do you then plan out the rest of the things? And when you say commitments, are you talking about like, I don't know my kids like school schedule for next year. I don't know when childcare is.
when I'll have childcare available to me. have students in the Web Designer Academy that their childcare situation changes from week to week.
Shannon Mattern (01:18:44.476)
So yeah, plan from a place of like, I know for sure these are days I'm choosing not to do any work because I have another commitment.
Shannon Mattern (01:19:00.498)
We're going to get into next. I don't have kids either, Sabrina. you know, we are always, we're always like creativity and constraints, right? If you, if you only know your childcare situation from week to week, then we get to plan for what we, for what we typically do know. But then we also get to like manage our mind around being flexible with our, with our schedule too.
Shannon Mattern (01:19:38.962)
So there's a part of this that, well, we'll get to that in the next section. We'll just do one more minute on just blocking out known non-workdays. I should have blocked all Saturdays and Sundays for myself too.
Shannon Mattern (01:20:01.04)
And that could even be like. You work Saturday mornings, but you don't work Saturday afternoons, whatever.
Shannon Mattern (01:20:19.696)
You can put that on there. I like that. I hope you make it fun. Crystal says she's got housework half days for Saturdays.
Shannon Mattern (01:20:43.76)
All right, so if you're still working on your Q1, there will be time to come back to fill in the rest of the bonds for Q1 and then even the rest of the calendar in the next session. So we're gonna move on and I do want you to come down to this time blocking section now. So now is when this is like, we don't have specific dates of like,
holidays or things that we know are happening or, you know, the kids soccer is this time. These are like we filled all of the, the, the for sure commitments into our calendar that we already know about. This time blocking is we have categories of things in our life and business that we are in full control of. We get to decide.
when we are doing these things. And the mistake that so many of us make is that we think we're not in control of these things. We're like, well, I don't know when I'm going to book a client. So I don't know if I can do if I can do these things. Right. Crystal says, I love housework. I just never do it because there's always a client project that's almost overdue. We get to solve that problem here. You get
to decide you are in control of how you spend your time. Your clients are not in control of how you spend your time. Okay, you are. And this is the shift that you must make if you want to have a profitable, sustainable business. So the first category of time that we are going to put on, you already, this is just like in general, this time blocking, have, I'm pointing out the thing that you can't see. In general, this is just like,
a week in a week in your life. This is your morning, your afternoon, your evening, your night. I am not a night owl. I'm a super morning person. There are some of you here that are night owls. That's why I gave you like really four different blocks in which to plan things. And the first thing you're going to make a decision on is when is the time outside of all of these like commitments that I layered into my months.
Shannon Mattern (01:23:05.626)
When is the time that is like my personal time for me? This is like the time when I'm, I don't know who cares what you're doing, binge watching Netflix, working out, going to the grocery store. don't like cleaning your house. Does not matter. What are your chunks of personal time? So if it is evening, you don't work personal time. can
Do PT can do you can get super specific and be like workout yoga going out with my husband or my wife date night. Like I don't care. Whatever. However you want to do this. I want you to and you can put some times on it too. If you're that specific if you want to put times on it. So for me personally like Monday morning like every morning basically 7 to 9 a.m. personal time.
This is my time when I like wake up, have coffee, journal, etc. I block that out that I like I'm never going to be working during that time. I'm just like easing into my day for me like four or 5pm.
Shannon Mattern (01:24:24.806)
Workout. So whether that is like going for a walk with with my dog. Go ball now, because I'm old. My best friend wants to play pickleball, but it's kind of cold out now. Like doing like a workout like a home workout or whatever. I have so many different things I could put on here, but these are my non-negotiable negotiable personal times. So block all of those out.
Shannon Mattern (01:24:54.578)
So Melissa says sticking to time blocking is so hard for me. I'm gonna have some, I want you to make this schedule. I want you to do this time blocking as if you'll stick to it. I truly want you to do this as if, of course I will stick to this. This is like, this is the time block. Like I didn't say this earlier, but let's say this now. Time block from your vision. Whatever you put in your vision,
about when you were working and when you weren't working, put this, that is your time block. Okay, so our first step was to like go into Q1 and block the real stuff that are commitments where we're not going to be working. This time blocking is tied back to your vision. So if in your vision you said, and so many people in here said like, I'm working Monday through, I'm working four days a week, 8.30 to four.
Which are those four days? Block out the rest of that with your personal time, okay? And you don't have to get super specific about what you're doing. You're just saying, okay, evening, night, personal time. That's it. If a client says, sorry, I have meetings all day. Can you meet with me in the evening? You're like, no, I cannot. Here's when I can meet with you, right?
So put all of that on there.
Shannon Mattern (01:26:27.504)
Melanie said, I love this. created a future schedule with what I wanted my ideal work personal month to look like. But instead of it being a wishlist, this is making me feel like it will be a reality in 2023.
So.
Shannon Mattern (01:26:46.022)
I'm gonna give you that. We're gonna take a break because we are right at almost an hour and a half for planning your profitable web design business with time blocking. We are gonna end this session. We're gonna meet in the next room because I don't want people who are coming into the next room to wait on us. And then we're gonna pick back up with the next chunk of time.
which is marketing, and we'll talk about that. So we're gonna hang out here until exactly 12.30. Then I'm gonna end this session. And then we are gonna pick back up in session two for profitable goal setting. We'll complete your time blocking, and then we'll reverse engineer your money over in the other room. So hang out here for a little bit.
keep working on blocking out your personal time, go back to your vision and block everything based on your vision. so when someone asked, I have to scroll back up, the question about like, how do I actually like do the vision? Like it's not just looking at the vision, it's operationalizing the vision. So this is how you operationalize the vision.
And then I'll say this now so I don't forget later as you guys are finishing plotting out your personal time. So you bring this to life is that you implement one small piece of it at a time. Just like if you try to go on some diet that is like, today I eat everything in the world, like anything I want. And now I'm going to go try some crazy like.
restrictive like can't eat anything but like kale diet and you try to change your whole life in one day how long does that last for you pretty much not that long right like maybe a day or two days right so you implement one thing at a time and you get that one thing down and then you implement
Shannon Mattern (01:29:08.038)
the next thing and you get that thing down and then you implement the next thing. You cannot expect yourself to change everything overnight. What you have to change and we'll talk about this in CEO decisions is your thoughts about how you're spending your time and your thoughts about there being enough time or not being enough time or your thoughts about your clients wanting things from you when it's in your personal.
Time block. Your thoughts about this is housework half day, but my client needs something.
That's the stuff that you work on to bring your time blocking and your schedule to life. Okay. So I'm going to end this session.
Robin, hold that thought, remember that thought, because we're going to work on that session three. So I'm going to end this session. We're going to meet right back in the other session. I'll give you guys five more minutes when we start there to finish up, to take a break, whatever. And then we will take the next step in the time blocking and then profitable goal setting. So I'll see you in the next room in just a few minutes.