Web Design Business Strategies for Introverts – Neuro Spicy Tips to Grow with Tara Reid

Shannon Mattern (00:02.028)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the profitable web designer podcast. And today I am joined by Tara Reid who helps introverted, multi-passionate, neuro spicy business owners build sustainable and enjoyable businesses. And Tara, welcome to the show.

Tara (00:20.92)

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Shannon Mattern (00:24.63)

Yeah, so Tara and I met several months ago when I was a guest on her podcast and I just loved talking to her so much that I was like, hey, I think you should come on my show and now I can like turn it around and get to know you more. So you're also the host of the Introvertpreneur podcast. So let's kind of start.

there and like with your, your business journey, like how did you get started? doing what you do and like what ultimately led you to create a podcast called the introvertpreneur.

Tara (01:05.134)

It's been very long journey. Right now, I'm heading towards my 18th year as an online business owner, which just saying that sounds really wild. So yeah, it's been a very long journey. I started in 2007.

my first business was a handmade jewelry business. And then through that, I kind of found my love of helping other business owners and I moved more into services. started as a virtual assistant and then really found my people. Once I started to not pretend to be somebody else and I was like, I'm an introvert and I need to accept that and love that about myself and

That means that, you know, I'm going to do things differently when it comes to running my business and how I show up and how I market. And I really want to help other introverts learn that there are other ways to do that and hear some voices that they can relate to. Cause you know, as introverts, we're not always the loudest in the room. So it can like most of the loud voices we hear in like how you can grow a business, how you market your business is typically.

more extroverted advice.

Shannon Mattern (02:29.222)

Yeah. So what were some of those things that you did in the early days before you were like, I just get to be me and it's okay. And I can be successful going against what all the extroverts out there are telling me to do. What were some of those things that you were doing at the time that you no longer do?

Tara (02:55.49)

gosh, I think like what didn't I do? It was like, I tried everything and I did everything that I was like being told that you had to do. A lot of that was heavily focused on social media because that's like where you can attract people, where you can get clients. So I forced myself to do that. I forced myself to do reels. I like did...

everything went live. And it was exhausting to me. was like, and not only was it exhausting, it didn't work because it was obvious that it wasn't the real me. was like, was pretending to be somebody else. And so it didn't work. And it was just draining my energy. And I got to the point where I was like, if this is what it takes to build a business online, I'm

I'm done. I'm not doing it anymore. So that was really the turning point where I decided, okay, like, let's go back to what I actually love to do and actually what I have experienced with. So I was already trained in SEO. I was already trained in website design. That's actually what I went to college for. I was like, why don't I use some of these skills and things that I'm really passionate about and figure out ways that I can show up that don't totally deplete my energy.

So took me quite a few years, but I actually totally left social media in June of 2022. And I don't miss it at all.

Shannon Mattern (04:35.235)

So we talked back in the spring and then social media is something that like I've never taught in any of my programs because like you, I don't love it. I feel fake. I feel like I have to, there's character limits, there's time limits, there's, you know, all of these strategies for like, got to like use the hook. Like there's all of these like things that you're supposed to do to make social media work.

Tara (05:00.27)

Thanks.

Shannon Mattern (05:04.064)

that are the opposite of how I write, how I talk, how I think, how I connect with people. So I'm right there with you. So in the spring, I also noticed that like my biggest hang up with creating reels or creating any kind of like live content on social media at the time was like, I'm just like crap talking myself.

As soon as I turn on the camera, like you're not good enough this, this, that I was like, that's actually a problem that I want to solve. So I started, I was like, okay, I'm going to go about solving this like negative self-talk problem and I'm going to power through and I'm going to like find a way to still do all the these things that everybody tells me that are going to work for me if I would just do them because blah, blah, blah, blah.

and I create a system and I do all the things and I check all the boxes and I make all the reels without all the negative self-talk. So check, that's a good thing. I'm happy about that. But like at the end of that, I still felt exactly like what you described. I'm like, I still feel drained. I still feel inauthentic. I still feel like I don't want to do this again. This is not fun for me at all.

I look forward to podcast days. I'm energized when I'm done with interviews. I love writing content. Like there are so many other things that I love. And so many times on my journey, I'm like, but like I'm missing out on this thing here. So I should probably try to do that again. And then I divert all this energy and resources to it just to find out again, that it's not the right thing for me.

What may I there is a question behind all of this, I swear. What made you decide finally in 2022 to be like, I am done with that game, like with all of that, like what was that decision like for you? Because I'm like one inch away from that.

Tara (07:14.666)

Yeah, it is scary to make that decision because there is that kind of fear of missing out. Even when I do, we put together this mastermind group and we just had our first call. Or at a summit and there's an event and everyone's like, drop your Instagram in the chat. And I'm like, I don't have Instagram. So there is that thought of like,

everyone's there and you have to be there. So there is that fear when you do maybe our start to feeling like maybe this isn't the right place for me. And I think for me, the big turning point was I did a big audit. So I looked at how much time was I spending and how much like actual results was I getting from all of this time that I was spending. For me, it was Instagram. Instagram was where I was putting a lot of time. Like I was just

pouring time into it. And I really looked at the number, like how many people are actually coming from Instagram to my website? I don't really like, yeah, engagements and making connections are great, but how much actual traffic is coming to my website or getting on my email list or like getting into my community from Instagram and looking at those numbers, it was so low. I'm like, my time is better spent elsewhere.

Like for me to, in the time I was spending on Instagram, I could write four blog posts that week instead that will get me hundreds of people for the next few years coming from Google search. So why am I not doing that?

Shannon Mattern (09:00.0)

I recently got the data myself in my business and I was like, I'm like, yes, it makes sense that this is not, I wasn't putting the time and effort and energy in any kind of a consistent way because I couldn't maintain the consistency because I hate it so much. And so I'm like, well, of course it's not working because you're not actually doing it.

to myself, this is why I'm saying to myself. So if you just actually did it consistently, then it probably would start working. And I love that I'm hearing you say, for yourself, you're like, it wasn't, I was putting time into it, it wasn't working for me. And it's because I couldn't be myself there, because it's not like where you naturally like to show up. And that's just so, I...

Tara (09:49.634)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (09:56.48)

I just love that perspective to be like, if you don't like doing something that is going to come through in some kind of way, or form that even if you're checking all the boxes of the strategy that you bought, it's still not gonna convert or come off as how it's supposed to, you know.

Tara (10:13.375)

Yeah.

Tara (10:17.61)

And I think a big thing too, is a lot of people, they're like, but my audience, like Instagram's their platform. That's where they're hanging out. So I have to be there. I have to force myself. And I always say like, just ask yourself, is that the only place they're hanging out? Probably not. Maybe they're also Googling. Maybe they're also on Pinterest searching. Like they're probably not only on one platform. Your audience is probably on a lot of different

platforms and you can connect with them in a lot of different ways. So if you're thinking that you're stuck on a platform because that's where your audience is, they're probably somewhere else too that you can connect with them. And there's probably a lot less noise in the other methods and platforms. And if you actually enjoy showing up, it's going to be a lot easier for you to be consistent and make those connections with your audience versus forcing yourself to stay somewhere because you feel like you have to.

Shannon Mattern (11:18.272)

Yeah, I just think about, you know, I do have a lot of friends or business friends that love Instagram. They love TikTok. They love consuming content there. I don't even consume content there. So like for me to even try to create content for a platform that I don't consume content on, like that's that's extra challenging. But I also think to think that like

Tara (11:32.876)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (11:44.882)

Yeah, if my clients are if my ideal clients are there, I don't have to be there too. They can still talk. They can still like connect with each other about topics that I talk about or other people talk about with that like without me having to be there. So I just Yeah, I just love that you took that bold step and that you're like, you're you're okay with not being there. Like, and yeah.

I just find that very inspiring. What are some of the other things that you just like put down and you're like, this is not for me, I'm done with this.

Tara (12:24.236)

I think another big thing that I've done recently is a lot less, like I really needed more white space on my calendar. So I have definitely like stepped away from anything that requires a specific time for me to show up just because I think too, it goes back to your values, like two of my really big values and like reasons for why I wanted to build a business is for freedom and flexibility.

Shannon Mattern (12:31.905)

Yeah.

Tara (12:54.154)

So if I have a calendar that is just nonstop, fully booked back to back, like live things or calls or like coaching clients, I'm like, this is not serving me in the way that I want my business to also serve me. And so that was something that I had to change in the last year of like, how can I still show up, still connect, still help people?

without it being such a rigid schedule. So for me, like I do Vox or office hours now for my main program instead of more calls. That is much easier for me. And actually that program is for introverts. So I feel like they like that more so than having to show up on a zoom call as well. So it works out perfectly for both. I also then introduced like weekly audit so they can submit something in a

air table form and I just record, I'll usually do them in batches. So I just sit down for an hour once a week and do all of the audits and critiques. And then they get an automated email back with the link to watch it at their convenience. that kind of asynchronous support and ways to show up that has been definitely a game changer for my business.

Shannon Mattern (14:15.074)

I, we structure our program that way too. And it's like, I was having this conversation with one of, one of my colleagues the other day. I was like, I can't remember exactly who I, no, my copywriter. We were talking about this. And I was like, I left a very rigid corporate like job that told me where I had to be, what I was allowed to wear, how I was allowed to wear my hair. Like.

what clothes I could, like, it was just ridiculous. What room I had to be in, like if I was, had to be in my office or like just all of these like rules that felt so ridiculous and arbitrary. And I was 35 when I started my like side hustle web design business. And I'm like, I'm 35 years old and I'm being told that I can't take time off to like,

Tara (14:44.824)

No.

Shannon Mattern (15:13.536)

go on vacation or I can't leave early because I don't have a reason other than I want to leave early. And I'm like, then we go off as business owners and we recreate all those same harsh, rigid, toxic for lack of a better word structures in our own business. And we like set things up that way. And

Tara (15:20.654)

Thanks

Shannon Mattern (15:37.922)

like just repeat that all over again, but we don't have to. I think that's one of the beautiful things I love that you were like, you need white space. You need to be in charge of your own schedule. And all of our clients don't want to be somewhere, you know, be somewhere sometime either. Like they want that freedom, that flexibility. And you know, when they're working with us, they don't want to have to like, I've been in programs where I've been told like you have to be on camera.

Tara (15:54.188)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (16:08.14)

You have to be ready for the day. You have to be, you know, like with good lighting and a microphone and whatever, if you want questions answered. And I'm like, what? what? That is absolutely ridiculous. Like who, you know? So I just think that that's something that I want everyone listening to this to hear is like you get to design your business.

Tara (16:20.942)

Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (16:37.662)

around how you want your life to look. So what did it feel like? go ahead.

Tara (16:38.584)

Mm-hmm.

Tara (16:41.976)

When you were talking about the restrictions of corporate, I flashed back to my last regular job. my gosh, if I put my phone, because we had a phone that we had to enter codes if we were away from our desk, and there was one for bathroom break, and if you were gone for more than two minutes, they'd be looking for you.

I'm like, I can't even go to the bathroom for two minutes? Like, what is this? Like, yeah, that's, but that's kind of like ingrained in us from like early on. I feel like that we have to, that, know, in order to be, and it's also kind of like the hustle culture in order to be successful, you need to like work 40 to 60 hours a week and you have to like schedule breaks and that just,

is not at all what I want my day to day or business to look like.

Shannon Mattern (17:45.504)

I love that you have like deconstructed this for yourself and, you know, going back to your, to your like journey, you were doing virtual assistant work and that type of thing. When did you decide to really start working with, other business owners and other introverts to, you know, kind of do this type of thing for themselves?

Tara (18:12.622)

So it kind of happened in like a slow gradual thing. I feel like with my first business, my handmade jewelry business, I was kind of like in that handmade space with other business owners who were creating a handmade business. And because I had that SEO background, people were asking me questions and seeing me as an expert in SEO and like how to.

like rank on Etsy or Amazon Handmade or on their own website in order to get more traffic. And then I started offering that as a service on the side of my jewelry business. And then I found, I really love that. And I kind of shifted more into that. And then when I created my first course, I fell in love with that. So it was a very slow gradual shift. I feel like almost over a decade.

Shannon Mattern (19:07.542)

So how do you work with clients today?

Tara (19:12.072)

so today I basically, only work one-on-one with like two clients and I call it a marketing director role, but it's kind of like marketing director slash implementer. Like I do entire launches. I create new products, do the email marketing content creation, basically anything I say, except for like video editing because I not a video person.

but basically anything else from start to finish of a project. love that. because I am multi-passionate and it kind of allows me more space to do different things I love, but also be in somebody's business is kind of a strategic role too. So it's not just like, you know, as a virtual assistant, somebody tells me what to do. Whereas in now it's more.

I'm like an overview of your business and then I give you ideas and plans and then I help you implement them.

Shannon Mattern (20:15.85)

I love that difference because it feels like, especially, you know, for freedom, flexibility, and all of the things that you value, you can do it as a virtual assistant and, you know, learn how to, how to like manage your clients and set boundaries with them and, you know, all of those things. But when someone is delegating to you, it's a little more challenging though. And you're like, Hey, guess what? I'm running, I'm running this show.

And, you know, you're creating the plan, creating the schedule, you know, deciding when you're implementing things. think just kind of stepping into that, like, consultant role gives you so much more freedom in how, yeah.

Tara (20:45.421)

Mm-hmm.

Tara (21:01.839)

And more ownership. I like that side of it. It's like, I have more ownership over what is happening, what I'm getting done, when I'm getting it done. Yeah, because yeah, as a virtual assistant, I definitely took on way too much. So that was another learning lesson when I switched fully into services was about setting boundaries, not taking on too much.

Managing time like that was a whole other big learning lesson to before So yeah, there's been a ton of learning lessons along the way

Shannon Mattern (21:38.87)

I feel like for me the whole journey, there's like a new one every day, almost like a new learning, a new lesson every day. my gosh. And then so with service providers, you just do some like, is it fractional marketing operations? Is that like a fair term? Like you're kind of like part-time marketing director for a couple of different companies.

Tara (21:39.758)

Okay.

Tara (21:43.914)

Yep, pretty much, yeah.

Tara (22:09.012)

Yeah. Yeah, that would probably be the best way to describe it.

Shannon Mattern (22:11.338)

And then how do you work with, say that again.

Tara (22:16.729)

that would probably be the best way to describe it. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (22:20.002)

And then how do you work with other introverts?

Tara (22:25.504)

So I have a program. It actually started as a membership four years ago now called the Introvertpreneur Club. And I recently transitioned it from a monthly membership into a lifetime access group program. So it's still a lot of the same support and components, but it's you pay once and you're in for forever.

so we have a monthly coaching call. have a monthly, training. We have Voxer office hours twice per month. have a really active community. I do quarterly challenges that everyone seems to really love and actually, with some pretty awesome prizes. Like I just did one, the first place prize was that if you get the most points in this challenge and you get first place.

That person got an email added to my evergreen email sequence. So any new subscriber is going to get that email for at least a year that features their business.

Shannon Mattern (23:35.21)

That's awesome.

Shannon Mattern (23:39.157)

So what are some of the types of things that you all work on together in that room?

Tara (23:50.222)

There's a lot. So we definitely focus a lot on marketing. So I talk a lot about email marketing. That's my number one marketing method, nurturing method, how I build my audience. It's really my email list. And then also SEO, Pinterest. We do talk a little bit about social media and kind of how you can do it in a less energy draining kind of way.

Shannon Mattern (23:52.034)

Thank

Tara (24:19.678)

if you are not ready to leave it or you do want to dig into it a little bit more. We also talk a lot about creating digital products, passive income, creating courses, affiliate marketing. So all of the kinds of things that I do in my business, I'm very open and sharing like what I'm doing, what's worked, what's not worked, how you can make it work for you. Yeah, we cover.

We cover a lot in there. And I also added in now there's a PLR resource library. So I tend to create a lot of things and sometimes I'll create something and I'm like, I don't know what to do with this now. And so I created a library of like, you know, here's a lead magnet. If this is like a topic that's related to what you do and your audience, and here's some ways that you can tweak this. Like,

Maybe you want to record a video and turn this into, you know, a small ticket digital product. Maybe you just want to leave it as is and have it as a PDF for a free lead magnet. It's yours to use in your business, whoever you want. There's like Thrivecart templates. I forget what else is in there, but there's lots of like fun things that you can use to grow and market your business as well.

Shannon Mattern (25:42.146)

What are some of the biggest obstacles that your students have or even just introverts in general when it comes to like marketing?

Tara (25:58.22)

I feel like the biggest thing, there's probably two biggest things. I feel like one is potentially like figuring out a strategic marketing plan that's going to work for you and your personality that's not going to burn you out. And then if you already have that in place, I find that sometimes a lot of us, especially, I feel like all entrepreneurs struggle with this, but especially introverts, we do maybe struggle a little bit more with boundaries.

especially for doing client work and one-on-one services and also confidence. I feel like confidence and dealing with imposter syndrome can also be a really big thing too because especially if you're a multi-passionate because I know I love learning. I take in a lot of information. That was my biggest problem with social media is that I was actually scrolling and like getting lost in all of

my competitors or what other people were doing and then I would just be overloaded with ideas. So, and then you get into, okay, now I'm paralyzed in this place because I'm like have decision paralysis. I don't know where to move forward with my own business and my own brand is getting diluted because I've just taken in so much information. So I think those are probably some of the biggest challenges.

Shannon Mattern (27:22.454)

I am so, I'm curious about like figuring out a strategic marketing plan that like works for you. What are some of the steps that you lead people through to kind of wade through like, okay, like what's authentic and natural to me that I like versus what have I been like kind of what's gotten in because of all of the things I've been scrolling or consuming that I think I have to do because I see other people doing it. Like, how do you help people?

of get that like clarity, I guess, for lack of a better word.

Tara (27:58.35)

Yeah, I think the biggest thing I would recommend is first doing an audit. So I've used the Chrome extension rescue time just to see like what, where's my time actually going? Cause I think a lot of times we get lost in what we're doing when we're marketing or working or like consuming content. So I've set that up for a week just to track like where exactly.

is my time going, especially if you get to the end of the day and you're like, I have no idea what I did today. Like, that's going to give you a real good picture of where your time is going. And then you can look at, okay, what am I doing right now to bring in sales, clients, traffic? Where is, where is it actually coming from and how much time have I dedicated to those things? So this is kind of like what I did when I

finally made that decision. Like I wanted to leave social media for years before I actually took a look at everything and made that final decision. So I think using your data is going to be really key and almost like giving you permission to let go of some things that you're maybe doing that aren't serving you and give you that permission to focus on other things that maybe you haven't been putting a lot of time and energy into.

because you just haven't had the time, you've been focused on other things. But that will work better for you and your personality. So for me, it was really like, okay, I'm gonna ditch all social media. I'm just gonna put a post up. I think it's still up there. It's like, this is goodbye. If you wanna connect, get on my email list. That's where I'm gonna be.

And then I really started to think about, my email, now that I'm focused on email, email is gonna be my number one place. I want everyone to get on my email list. How can I make my email perform better? And that means that, you know, I had to make a goal of I need to be emailing more. Like right now I'm emailing probably three to five times per week, no matter what. So even if I'm not.

Tara (30:11.586)

launching or doing anything. I'm still emailing three to five times per week. I have an evergreen email sequence, which once somebody signs up for something and they go through the initial, whatever, however many email sequence, then they're added to this long-term sequence, which right now I have it, it's like six months of weekly emails. And so I know that even if I have a week where I'm like,

I'm behind on emails. I don't have anything written. At least that is still going to be going out and still going to be nurturing, potentially making evergreen sales for me. and then of course I have the podcast as well. So I think there's a thing that you need to think about in terms of marketing. It's like, I look at it as like there's two buckets. There's one that is like, this is where I nurture people for me. That's email.

And then there's the bucket of, so how can I get people into that first bucket where I can nurture them? And so those methods are the podcast, blogging, SEO, Pinterest, and that, then they kind of all work together. And I think so when you start to piece it out like that, also I almost forgot there's the third bucket. So the third bucket is kind of like.

a quick win kind of method. some of a lot of the things I talk about is like email blogging, SEO, Pinterest, like these are all more long term. So if you just did things like that after coming from social media, it may be discouraging because you're not going to see that quick, like, I got 30 likes on this post and it can kind of get discouraging. I do recommend having at least one quick win strategy too. So this could be

being a guest on other people's podcasts. It could be participating in bundles or being a speaker at virtual summits. It could be just having affiliate partners that you're regularly updating, something that gives you a quick burst of new people into that first bucket where you can then nurture them.

Shannon Mattern (32:31.042)

I love how you think about that, how you talk about that, because I do think theater's like the allure of those launch explosion, quick win strategies. But then looking at the time that it takes.

that it's, I almost feel like it's like you put a bunch of money in the slot machine, but you put way more money in than you're ever going to get out of it. You know, it's just like, you just keep feeding the machine and every so often you get like, Ooh, I just like that post did really well, but like the other hundred that you put all of your time into didn't do well. And so it almost like kind of keeps you hooked. And what I hear you saying is like,

Tara (32:58.286)

Thanks

Tara (33:06.434)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (33:25.6)

there are other ways that you can create those quick wins without social media. And I was even thinking as you were saying that it's like those have longevity beyond, beyond social media. Like even if they are a quick win strategy for you to like be a guest on someone else's podcast.

Tara (33:43.714)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (33:49.994)

you know, like you are today, that's going to get a flurry of people coming to your website now, but it's also going to get people coming in the future because as new people find this podcast, your episode is going to always be there. And so it's just like, like a two for one kind of deal instead of like, if I create a hundred pieces of content for social media, maybe one of them will be the one that like,

Tara (34:02.122)

Yeah, the...

Shannon Mattern (34:17.696)

you know, goes viral or sends me all these people and it's like, who has time for that? I mean, I know there are people listening to this that are like, I love it. And I'm like, more power to you. Please keep doing it. If you love it, keep it. But if you don't, you don't have to do it.

Tara (34:19.075)

Mm-hmm.

Tara (34:27.212)

Mm-hmm.

Tara (34:33.082)

Yeah, I feel like a lot of it is the sustainability factor like you were talking about because like I do love like the podcast. I always turn it into a blog post because I'm big on SEO. SEO is my number one traffic source, which is fantastic because it's always new people finding me from Google who are like actively searching for something that I talk about or something that I have an offer on and can help them with.

but also like the way you were talking about the time invested of like a hundred pieces of content, like my top blog post that generates still about three to 500 new people coming to that blog post from Google search every single month. It was published like over four years ago and it's generated that much traffic every single month for the past four years.

No social media post is going to do that for me.

Shannon Mattern (35:34.514)

my gosh. know, so SEO is something that I have totally neglected in my business. I knew I had been neglecting it. And simply for reasons that I just, I was not spending my time like on social media, but just spending my time on the wrong, not even going to say the wrong things, other things in the business and knowing like, I know I'm fully, I'm creating a ton of content.

and I'm not optimizing it at all. I'm just like pushing. I'm just nurturing with this content to people who are already here, but I'm not doing anything to it to optimize it so that new people can find me. And just in the past month, I've been working with my team to actually go back and optimize all of that content for, for

Tara (36:12.599)

Is it?

Shannon Mattern (36:34.026)

you know, getting new people in the door. And I would much rather spend my time there. And I'm like writing pillar content based on all of the concepts that we talk about on the podcast and things like that. And that is so much more fun to me than trying to like, I don't know, write an Instagram caption and figure out what to, you know, it just does not come naturally to me. And

Tara (36:56.789)

No.

Shannon Mattern (37:01.922)

But it's really interesting because I think about like, I've created all this content. I've neglected SEO, but that doesn't mean I missed my opportunity. Like it's all still there and I can do it now and I can start benefiting from it. Benefiting from it in the future. And I don't think, I don't know. I was just thinking about that. Like it feels good to know that I didn't like just waste it all.

Tara (37:13.422)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (37:30.166)

Like it's all still there just waiting for me to do something with it.

Tara (37:33.962)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's the beauty of like content that's not so I mean with social media, you could like grab old content and like repost it if it was like a year ago. But I feel like with blog content or podcast content, like the opportunity for SEO because so many people don't spend a lot of time on SEO, I feel like and a lot of entrepreneurs.

ship spaces. like anytime I've had somebody fill out like when I used to do SEO services and they'd fill out the form and one question is like, who would you say are some of your like, top three to five competitors? Every single time they would give me their three to five competitors, I would look and like do competitor research. And none of those competitors were optimized or like focused on SEO at all. So I'm like, this is a great opportunity for you. You can get in front of all these

like the people that you see as like your big competition for anyone searching in Google.

Shannon Mattern (38:40.992)

And I think too, like I think about intent, you know, like if I'm searching, I'm searching, but if I'm scrolling, I'm just scrolling. Like I don't know that I'm even know what I'm looking for if I'm scrolling. I'm just like passing time, seeing what shows up in my feed, seeing what like piques my interest, but I feel like my intent and I say that as if I scroll, like I don't, cause I don't even like want to.

Tara (39:06.734)

I'm a, I'm a scroller, so I get it.

Shannon Mattern (39:08.354)

I don't like to pass time that way. Yeah, I'm just not, like searching, I'm like, I am on the hunt for like the thing that is gonna like solve this problem or fill that need or like whatever. And I just think, yeah, it's just really, really powerful. I bet it was just like.

Tara (39:18.008)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (39:33.054)

A huge sigh of relief to all of the introverts out there to be like, wait, I can just like do the things I like and stop doing the things that I don't. And this all just gets easier. I mean, is it that, is it that simple? Like what are some of the things that like come up when that realization happens for your clients?

Tara (39:53.742)

think it is, I feel like we all as introverts, especially if anyone else was like, I was many years ago and like, you're trying to do the, all the things or things that you don't enjoy right now. you may have your, I call it like my aha moment where I was like, I don't have to be here. I don't have to be doing this. There are other ways to do it. I just have to figure out.

like how to make it work for me. there are so many options out there. Like even anytime I see somebody talk about content, they're always talking about content in relation to social media. And I'm like, there are so many other forms of content. Why is it always related to social media?

Shannon Mattern (40:47.168)

Yeah. We teach relationship marketing in our program. you know, it's like you need a web design client. the quickest, like the quick win is to reach out to your past client and say, Hey, I loved working with you. Do you know anyone just like you? I'd like 10 more of you. Do you know anyone who I've, you know, that you could connect me with or

you know, just, hey, I was thinking about you. You mentioned that you have a project coming up. like, are you still thinking about doing that? I'd love to have a conversation like just things like that, where we talk about, you know, just being a real human. But I under but I know even for some introverts, just the idea of like sending one email to one person could just be like, you know, very nerve wracking. It is for me. I don't even know if I'm an introvert. I think I'm like, I think I

Tara (41:40.002)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (41:43.094)

go back and forth. Is there an ambivert? Is that a thing? I would consider myself an ambivert, but I do know that like sometimes when I just go to send an email to one person, I'm like, why are my hands sweating? Like this is literally just an email. So.

Tara (41:46.697)

Yeah, yeah.

Tara (41:56.814)

Mm-hmm.

I have a fix that works for me as like anytime when I was sending emails, like, cause I actually got my first, feel like my first three to five virtual assistant clients when I switched fully was actually through cold pitching emails. So I just like reached out and was like, Hey, I really love what you're doing. And like, I love your business or like they had a podcast. Like I, I love

these episodes and I'd love to just touch base and connect with you. But yeah, hitting that send button. It's like just that action of hitting send. So I would actually schedule them to go the next day. So then I wasn't actually like sending and I knew it was going off. I would just be like, okay, schedule for tomorrow. And that just made it a lot lighter for me and easier.

Shannon Mattern (42:51.286)

That is a brilliant hack. is so like truly because just putting, just taking the pressure off of yourself to be like, I'm just drafting this and I'm going to schedule it instead of like, I'm going to send this right now. And what if, what if, what if, what if all of the what ifs that go through our minds, like you almost just like take all of that pressure off. That's beautiful. That's absolutely brilliant.

Tara (43:04.355)

Mm-hmm.

Tara (43:11.085)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tara (43:18.516)

Yeah, because I know I used to when I was like, okay, let's say hit send. Then I would be like refreshing my inbox like continuously because I knew they it was delivered. They have it. It's in their inbox. And it does it takes the pressure off if you're like, okay, hit the schedule button instead of the send. And then I don't even remember or like think about it the next day.

Shannon Mattern (43:44.072)

And the stories we tell in the space between the sending and the reply are like the stuff of novels, like so dramatic that like, they saw it. They must have been so annoyed. They hate me. Now they're like spreading, like talking trash about like, that's my negative self-talk that I used to have. I have really done a lot of work in the past year on on cleaning that up. But like, I know, you know, we just we just fill that space in between.

Tara (43:50.029)

Mm-hmm.

Tara (43:59.436)

Woof woof

Shannon Mattern (44:13.75)

descending in the reply with all kinds of just worry thoughts sometimes. so yeah, scheduling just that's brilliant. I love cold pitching. I think it's like, I think I cold pitched you to be on the Introvertpreneur podcast if I recall correctly, but I think I did. I think if it's like done with authenticity,

Tara (44:16.59)

Mm-hmm.

Tara (44:35.072)

Yeah, I think so, yeah.

Shannon Mattern (44:44.116)

that it's really fun to do. It's when, I mean, I'm sure you do too. I get so many terrible cold pitches in my inbox for all manner of things. And then my favorite is when they're like, I'll get the one that's like, you haven't responded to any of my emails. And I'm just like, delete. Like as soon as it says that, I'm like, that's an automatic delete. But I...

Tara (44:51.842)

Mm.

Yup.

Tara (45:06.806)

Yes.

Shannon Mattern (45:13.536)

I get some great cold pitches too. I get some really good ones and the ones that I will respond to, even if it might be something that I can't say yes to. Like I got a copywriter reached out and pitched me copywriting services. And it was such a good email that I was like, I have to respond to her and tell her like, that was a fantastic email. Thank you for taking the time to actually like learn about me before you sent it.

And while I'm not in the market for services, I have no doubt that you're going to get booked out if you keep sending cold pitches just like this, because it was so, it was already warm by the time it hit my inbox, just because the first sentence like warmed, like took me from cold to warm. And I think that that's just such a, it can be an intimidating marketing tactic for people to send cold pitches. But I think if you do it from, I'm a real person.

Tara (45:59.798)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (46:13.359)

Which is everything that we're talking about here is just like being your authentic self It can be really powerful

Tara (46:14.038)

Mm-hmm.

Tara (46:22.718)

Yeah, which I do feel like lot of introverts kind of would excel at that if they gave it a shot because we are so good at listening and understanding other people because we are like, we listen more than we talk. So I feel like we would be really good at cold pitching because we can like, think about who this person is that we're writing to what they need, like we can focus on them.

versus like, hey, I offer all these services and I do this. Like instead of like, I, I, I, it's more, and I always ask myself, like, even though I'm not like cold pitching for clients now, I still like cold pitch like for collabs or like a couple of years ago, I did, I hosted a course creator virtual summit and there was someone who had a really big audience, Facebook group, podcast.

four course creators and I was like, I would really love to like collab with them in some way or like see if they'd be interested in being an affiliate and like promoting the conference. And so I just sent a message on actually Facebook Messenger. I think I don't even think I did an email and I was like, Hey, I'm just touching base. And I deleted that what I wrote three times before I finally hit send.

But the thing I had to say to myself, and I say this to myself a lot, is what's the worst that's gonna happen here? They're not gonna reply, they're gonna say, I'm not interested. That's worst case scenario. It's not like a life or death situation here that we make in our heads. It's like, what is the worst that's gonna happen? It's actually not that bad. And the best thing,

actually happened that we collaborated and shared it. His huge like 20,000 Facebook group of course creators shared the conference several times, which was amazing. I'm so glad I asked.

Shannon Mattern (48:30.467)

And even if someone is like totally mean to you, that says more about them than it says about you. You know, like that's the other thing. It's just like, you know, the worst fear is that someone's going to write something back to be like, stop spamming me or like something like that, you know, and you're just like that, that just, that says something about them. That's their, that's, they were, you know,

Tara (48:39.086)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Mattern (48:57.868)

That's their thing, that's not your thing. And that's just, if you continue emailing, yes, now you're spamming them, but I'm sure you wouldn't do something like that. Can you think back to like your earlier, I know it's 18 years ago, but from now and...

Tara (49:04.834)

No.

Shannon Mattern (49:23.72)

What's one belief that you've had to change about yourself along the way to get to where you are today?

Tara (49:31.506)

that's a really good question. feel like the biggest thing for me was realizing that I didn't have to change myself. And this was not just business wise, but like this also made a huge impact in my personal life as well. Like, I feel like as introverts sometimes, and this was the case for me, like even when I was a child, like, you're so quiet. Why are you so

quiet, why? Like it's talked about in a negative way and we internalize that and we take that and we're like, okay, there's like, there's something wrong with me and I need to like force myself to talk to this person. I have to force myself to go to this networking event. I have to force myself and life shouldn't be about forcing yourself every day to do things that you really don't want to do. I do think like I have a podcast episode called

Don't push yourself outside your comfort zone because we hear all the time. Push yourself outside your comfort zone, which is great advice sometimes. I do feel like as introverts, sometimes we may have to push ourselves. Like I did an in-person mastermind last week. I had to push myself to do that, but that's not something that I want to do every week. That's not something I even want to do every month because it would be very energy draining and exhausting. So I do think

You should push yourself, but not every single day or too far outside your comfort zone where you're so uncomfortable that there's no changing it whatsoever. So, I think that was the big thing is being an introvert is not something that needs to be changed. It's not something that means that there's anything wrong with you. is just who you are and you need to love yourself for who you are.

and the people who are gonna connect with you and resonate with you are gonna find you. I feel like once I made that shift in my business, it just exploded. And I think it's really because I was now me. I was not pretending. I was not trying to put on this shiny false image of who I was. I was really just, this is me, take it or leave it.

Tara (51:57.538)

connect with people who have more of a bubbly outgoing personality. That's fine. There's lots of those people, but that's not me. And I'm very upfront about that. So just knowing that you're not for everyone and it's absolutely okay.

Shannon Mattern (52:12.282)

that is so good. And I think that is a perfect spot to wrap up this conversation. Can you share with everyone where they can go to learn more about you, your offers, the podcast, all of the different ways that you can help them?

Tara (52:16.45)

Mm-hmm.

Tara (52:29.93)

Yeah, definitely. So my website is the terrarid.com. I have a free resources page where I have a ton of freebies. probably the best one. If you've resonated with this podcast episode, I have a free training, the four marketing methods for introverts. so it goes into Pinterest, email marketing, blogging, and social media in a less social kind of way. And.

I also have an everything page on my website so you can actually see all of my offers because I do have a ton of different offers available.

Shannon Mattern (53:09.57)

I will link up all of that in the show notes and it was such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for being here.

Tara (53:17.878)

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's so great to connect with you again.