How Kate Leaned into Community to Confidently Sell $10k Web Design Projects

Shannon Mattern: Welcome to the Profitable Web Designer, a podcast for web designers who want to work less and make more money. I'm your host Shannon Mattern, Founder of the Web Designer Academy, where we've helped hundreds of web designers stop under charging, overworking and create profitable, sustainable web design businesses.

Shannon Mattern: Before we dive into this week's episode, I wanna let you know about the Simply Profitable Designer Summit happening March 21st through 23rd a summit that's all about helping you simplify your design business so that you can work less and make more money doing what you love. Tickets are completely free. You can go to https://simplyprofitabledesigner.com to get your free ticket and we will have 20 experts over three days teaching you strategies that you can use both to improve and simplify your design business, no matter what stage you're at, all from the comfort of your own home. So go ahead and go to https://simplyprofitabledesigner.com to get your free ticket today.

Shannon Mattern: Welcome back to the Profitable Web Designer podcast. Today I have the pleasure of chatting with another one of our Web Designer Academy students, Kate Newnham. Kate runs Up Designs LA where she helps health and wellness businesses create professional, awe-inspiring and memorable online presences that represent their true value so that they can help more people live happier, healthier, and longer lives. And today Kate is here to share more about her business journey with you, her backstory, the wins, the challenges, the lessons, the breakthroughs that she's had along the way to get to where she's today. So Kate, thank you so much for being here today.

Kate Newnham: Thank you so much for having me and that lovely intro ,

Shannon Mattern: I'm so excited for this conversation. So can we just kind of like go get in our time machine and kind of go back to like your early career days? Like what put you on the path to starting your own web design business? What was your early career like?

Kate Newnham: Yeah, so I actually had an entirely different career before I entered the web design field. I was mostly in marketing and marketing strategy and coming up with huge marketing ideas for big companies and like all types of things. And I worked at really big companies. I worked at mid startup with like big investors and like Churn and Burn is what I call it, . And just did a lot of that and most of it was putting together these amazing presentations, brainstorming with tons of people, all that stuff. And I would create these presentations probably I would say 8,000 over my career. I kind of added them up one time and we'd put them out there, but they were just just proposals. They were just presentations for what we could do and they never really saw more than what, eight, 10 people at the very most, you know?

Kate Newnham: And we had put all of this effort into every single one and I just thought, you know, it would just be so much better if this could be like a permanent something somewhere after all this work we put into it, right? So after years of seeing like layoff after layoff, cuz if you work in a big media company, you're just gonna see it all the time. It just got less and less stable. You know, it feels like it should be stable, but it's not. As most of us know now, we see it all the time. And especially as media has changed, you know, so dramatically over the years. I won't tell you what People magazine was like when I first started. It wasn't online. Let's just aging myself.

Shannon Mattern: That's so cool, by the way,

Kate Newnham: . I know, right? It's cool to, but anyway, I realized as you know, I had been laid off after like 12 other layoffs. Of course everyone goes eventually and it had happened a couple times and I just thought I'm just gonna start my own thing. And I did a couple websites and I thought it was super fun. And then I realized like it's not really that different than a presentation except it stays up and people can use it to like get more business . So I'm like, you know what, it's not actually that different. So here I am. Yeah, it's been

Shannon Mattern: Great. Oh my gosh, I love that it's like your presentations are just like files on some corporate drive out there and these websites are like revenue generating assets that you've created for your clients.

Kate Newnham: Yeah, absolutely. And they can like be excited about it and share it with everybody and I just was not getting that. It was just like churn and burn and then it would go away and it just is a lot of effort to put into something. It doesn't stick and it's online. If it did sell the ideas did sell, it would just, you know, be a few blog posts or a few videos or quick event and then that's it , it's over, you know, and then the next hot thing happens. Right.

Shannon Mattern: Oh my goodness. So were you in corporate when you started your web design business or were you in, like were you no longer at your job when you decided to start it?

Kate Newnham: No, I was no longer in my job and I was just freelancing. I had had some savings so I didn't feel like I was totally out there. Like some people started to side hustle. Sure. I was never going to do that. I wasn't at that motivated. I didn't know I wanted to be like an entrepreneur or whatever. My own business owner, like a lot of people now I kind of backed into it. Yeah. So yeah.

Shannon Mattern: So how did you get your first clients with your new business?

Kate Newnham: I asked a couple of people who I knew and I just had a couple of tiny projects like here and there. Like, you know, $500 for a website because I wasn't a website designer. Right. But I kind of figured it out or you know, someone small needed something and it wasn't like a business, it was just like a quick project to make a few bucks. Right. While I was like looking for a real full-time job, more in line with what I wanted. So that kind of, you know, it started that way and then I realized like, you know what, once you've been on your own for a little while, it's really hard to go back to a corporate job that ties you down. It's like almost impossible. And so I just thought, all right, this is it. If this is the freedom and flexibility that I want, you know, you gotta go all in. And I knew I needed to get help. Like I knew I needed like, you know, so I asked a couple people and someone recommended you. Like I knew I needed the support from a coach or someone who had done it before me because I wasn't gonna get very far in terms of starting a business on my own. Right. I mean it's a lot, it's a lot to just know without training, don't

Shannon Mattern: You think? I remember getting your application for the Web Designer Academy and being like, why does she even wanna work with me? Like I just remember looking at and being like, she needs my help. Like I looked at your website and I saw things, I'm like, oh I see opportunities. Like I see how your packages and your positioning. And I saw like, oh yeah, I see exactly how we can help you like with our framework. And I remember just thinking like she is just so like just, I don't know, I just, I felt like you were so confident, so bold, just so that was my impression of you. And I remember I was like a little bit intimidated, I'm gonna be a hundred percent honest about like accepting you to the program because of your background . I was like, what does she need my help for?

Shannon Mattern: She's like a marketing person. Mm-Hmm. . And so I remember accepting your application, I think you must have seen the city in our email back and forth and you're like, Hey, do you live here? I went to college there and we connected on that and then you like paid in full and enrolled. And I was like, what is happening right now ? And I remember like one of our first conversations and I said something like, oh you've got this, you know this. And you're like, but I've never done this before. Like I, I really want your help. And I was just like, oh, okay. Like cool. Like it was so funny but I, I honestly was, I was just like look at her career. Like I don't understand what I have to offer but this is something super interesting. And I was just talking to another one of our Web Designer Academy students, Lauren, about this.

Shannon Mattern: When I was working in corporate, I never questioned my skills or abilities or a ability to like create results or like anything. I was just like, you hired me, I work here, I have a job to do. I'm the best at this. Like I'm always gonna like get the outcome. But then when I started my own business, it was as if none of that ever existed. , . So I'm curious about like that makes me think about our conversations when I thought about like what my impression of you was. And you are that person by the way.

Kate Newnham: Oh

Shannon Mattern: Thank you. But then you know this business journey that you've been on of like

Kate Newnham: It's what you don't anticipate. Right? So I was thinking about that beforehand. Like the main challenge with this versus working for corporate is like a lot what you said and what I didn't realize early on that quickly became apparent trying to get my own clients is that starting your own business is a personal development journey and you have no idea. I didn't, maybe other people just know that, but for me I did not know that. And maybe it's just my type of personality where I'm a people pleaser or like I always had like a boss who thought it was really great so I'd get like my use from that. Right. Or I always had like needed that. Right. And then all of a sudden you're on your own and you're like, oh wait, it wasn't a group effort that I can be like, oh, the group didn't do as well as we'd hoped.

Kate Newnham: So basically when you're in corporate, everything's a group effort. It's not really always one person or at least in my case, right? And so ultimately I was responsible if I oversaw a group of people, right? But a lot of the stuff I would personally get approval on, like I would hand my stuff to sales and they would sign off or I'd hand it to my boss and right. So it's not like I was the CEO of the company. So it was more like that. So it was just not as much pressure to have it all on you, whether it goes good or it goes bad, you know? So it's just really different. Yeah. Especially, and also the other thing I would say is like the pricing. So pricing wasn't up to me, right? I didn't have to establish worth, I didn't have to, you know, so a lot of those personal development things they just, you just don't have to do. You're not, wouldn't you say that? Yeah.

Shannon Mattern: Oh yeah. I had no idea that I was like getting into any kind of like personal anything. I'm like this is a company, this is a business. And I had just like this a locked in set of beliefs about like what I could and couldn't do, what I could and couldn't charge. And I never even thought that like I could examine those beliefs that the stress that I was feeling was because of me thinking things about myself that like weren't serving me or any, like I had no idea what I was getting into. I'm glad I didn't, I probably wouldn't have done it. I just really wanted ability and here I have to like work through all of these and I don't wanna make it sound so serious, but like these personal demons in a way of very similar to you, I relate to you so much where it's like I'm always the a plus student.

Shannon Mattern: I'm getting a lot of validation from people liking me for being pleased with the work that I do. I had a really bad habit of being the one that like swooped in and saved the day and that that also felt really good. And when you take all of these traits that work really well in corporate and really well at school and help you climb the ladder and make more money and and feel very secure, I never experienced the layoff but I remember just cuz of the type of company we had, it was a nonprofit that had been around for like 150 years at that point . But just feeling like these are all the things I need to do to keep myself safe. Like these are all the things I need to do to be accepted in this environment. These are all the things I need to do to help me feel accomplished. It doesn't translate to running a business very well, .

Kate Newnham: No, not at all

Shannon Mattern: Business. Very well at all.

Kate Newnham: Yeah. And

Shannon Mattern: A really tough lesson to learn.

Kate Newnham: Yeah, go ahead. And it's not overnight, right? Like you talk about that the difference between like employee mindset versus business mindset. We're all trained to be employee mindset, right? Like make your boss happy, that's who pays you, that's who like that's it. You know? And that doesn't translate, you know, like you said and something that has like rocked my world, you know, that you teach is that you're the business owner, like the powers with you, you get to choose what you wanna do, when you wanna do it, who you wanna work with and you can still be profitable. It's like what? You know, like that's a lot to take in .

Shannon Mattern: Yeah. And I think the part of it that like I'm still exploring how to communicate this cuz I think I keep kind of stepping into it in our like stepping into the conversation in our live strategy calls in the Web Designer Academy. But I don't have like my thoughts fully formed about it just because I have the power and I like am in control and I'm the one leading doesn't make my client powerless. It doesn't like make it so that they have no say or that like I'm running the show and I'm so like this is how it's gonna go my way or the highway, right? Because that doesn't feel good to a lot of us. Like people who were conditioned to be like, I want people to like me, I want people to be happy. I don't wanna run a business where my clients are upset with me all the time or don't like me. You know, that's not fun either. So I'm exploring like how there is this power dynamic where you are equals you both have autonomy and you both get to decide and you set the rules of engagement and the client can either choose to follow them or not. And you both are autonomous and empowered and have free will. It's just that if you ask me to do something, I get to decide whether or not I'm gonna do it. And that's not an experience that we had. You're asked to do something, you do it

Kate Newnham: , you know, it's apples and oranges. I mean really And some of it translates, A lot of it translates. Yeah. And the truth is like what makes me a better web designer in a lot of ways is because I have that background. What's really, really helped me is this idea of giving clients a choice, which I absolutely love. And that is something that has also propped my world with your help. It's like you can give them three options and be like, which one would you like? And now that I do that, it's like no big deal. They're an adult. This is Shannon's voice now in my half year of working with her, they're an adult . They can make decisions with themselves and you could tell them which one you want. It's like, you know, do you want a burger? Do you want a burger with cheese or do you want burger with cheese and pickles? You know, like which one would you like? One's gonna cost more than the other and it's just great. You know, it just takes the pressure off, you know. But yeah, I

Shannon Mattern: Love that analogy. It's, it's that simple. But it's wading through all of the, you know what we call in the Web Designer Academy, the mind trash about why you have to sell everyone the burger with cheese and pickles for the price of a plain hamburger with , you know, no cheese on it or whatever . So yeah. And it's, I personally think, I don't know if I had known what I was in for, I'm sure I still would've done it because it is so rewarding to like look back on like eight years ago who I was and how I was and what I thought about myself and what I thought about was possible versus now to be like, I believe that my potential is like completely unlimited and I can create whatever I can come up with the right mindset to support and what like I know that I have to do the inner work. What is a pivotal moment that you can remember on your journey? Like we were kind of talking about when we left off about that feeling of like being in corporate and being part of a group and feeling like the responsibility for results was like distributed versus all on you. And, and I know you were talking about entrepreneurship as a personal growth journey for you, but what were some other pivotal moments for you on your journey?

Speaker 3: I think it was a couple of things come to mind. One was just owning this that I'm a website designer because that wasn't exactly what I did previously. And I am self-taught and I know a lot of people are now, but just because I didn't have a degree in graphic design or UI or any of that, a lot of this stuff is very intuitive to me and the skills that I bring. So sort of owning that and not saying, oh but I'm self-taught or oh but then. Oh. But you know, and just owning like I'm a website designer for these types of health and wellness clients and then just like spreading that wherever I went. And so that was a big shift for sure. And then the other one I was thinking of though is this idea of like take the bold move first and then wait for the result, right? So I thought no one will ever pay 10 K for a website but doing it anyway. And then when someone bought it and two people bought it, you know, it was like oh wow, you know, this is possible. So there was a couple of those that really like propelled my business forward like big time. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern: It almost feels like saying you were a website designer before you felt like one was a bold move. Yes. Saying your prices were 10 K before you believed that anyone would ever pay that much was a bold move and you're just like, I'm just going to go for it because if I don't, it won't ever happen.

Speaker 3: Right. And what's the harm? Put it out there Right. And see what happens. And if it doesn't, it doesn't and you come back with that information and you make a new assessment, you know, it's like I have nothing to lose. You

Shannon Mattern: Know, you can't be like, my price is 5k but I hope they just offer me 10. Yeah. , right?

Speaker 3: Yeah. That does not happen.

Shannon Mattern: Doesn't work like that. Yes. Like making those bold moves first. And let me ask you this, like, and I think he just said it, but like what did you have to believe in order to take those bold moves? You, you did just say like, what do I have to lose? Like did you really have to like come to a place where you're like, I really have nothing to lose

Speaker 3: That did not happen on my own. Yes. . You know, so I know if I look back at my history and I did some work on this even before the web designer got me, if I look back on my history, the most successful, the areas where I've had the most success is when I've had support, consistent support. Not just like a one-off here or there or a quick 90 day program. Like consistent. That's why like I love that this is a year program because mindset shift specifically the change doesn't happen quickly like that. And if it does happen quickly like that, you'll fall back into the old, you know? So that is a big part. So the, the mindset shift I think that had to happen was, you know, it's, it really did happen gradually. See what I was talking about the bold moves, I think it was that I had to say the 10 K was good, like let's try 10 K and have somebody sort of reaffirm it honestly, I think was part of it.

Speaker 3: So I, I did have to get that sort of affirmation or confirmation, you know, that it was good enough but that I was good enough and that my unique set of skills put together brings this sort of combination that a lot of web designers didn't have. And I felt like that was one of my strengths, you know, that I had the strategy, strategy and marketing background so that I could bring that to a website and I'm not just a pixel pusher, but I can bring that like user experience approach, you know? So what I had to think about, you know, specifically what I could bring to the table, I think was part of it that really helped me.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah. And I love this concept of the bold move because it, it's not necessarily like, well what do I have to lose? Because I'm sure people could come up up with a lot of things that they have to lose, right? . Like that's probably, but it's like what am I willing to risk? Mm. You know, like I'm willing to risk someone saying no, but what am I gonna make that mean? Like when you're on your own kind of out there in the sea of trying to figure it out, like you might make that mean I'm not good enough or I'm too expensive. But when you are in the room with other people who have done it or are doing it or have been through this, I made an offer for 10 K and they said no and now I'm at a crossroads, I'm gonna choose to make that mean that I'm not good enough and I'm too expensive or I'm gonna choose to make that mean.

Shannon Mattern: I get to evaluate and test and see what to do next time. Like was this just not a good fit client or is there something I have to change about myself or my offer? Or did I really believe that someone would pay 10 K and then did I get all wishy-washy and down sell 'em into a lower lower price? Like that stuff is hard to do on your own. I mean I like, I totally have experienced periods of time, like you said, where I have not been in a program like been getting co the coaching that I need to grow and you just stay stuck and you stay stagnant. Yeah. Because you're not exposing yourself to different like ways of thinking and different and not challenging yourself and not taking risks. It's like you're just kind of staying safe. So I love this, I love this whole concept of the bold move and that you really lean into it and that you're like, oh I've always been most successful when I've had help. So that leads me to my next question. What's one thing you wish you would have known or believed in the early days of your business?

Speaker 3: I didn't realize my worth and how much I had to offer in the early days. And I think it's to take the risk first and then see what works. I mean it's kind of along the same lines. And to find somebody who's done what you've done and been successful and do what they do, do what they've done. And you know, I think it like take the coaching, I've heard that from, from people, you know, it's like bring your resistance to the table, bring your stuff, unload it and say this is where I am, can you help me get to the next level? And then they say, oh well I've been there and this is what I did and now I'm at, you know, at this level. And I'm like, oh you know, you have to respect the person. Obviously you're getting the feedback from, you know, and to trust that if you keep on this path, you are not any different than the person who succeeded before you.

Speaker 3: Right? Yeah. It's not like, oh well they can do it but I can't, it's like trusting that process. Like when I came in I thought I'm never gonna get to X, Y, and Z, but when you do the work, you get there and you're like, oh that wasn't that big of a deal and X phase and now I'm like 10 K for a website. I would not run any less. You know, it's just, it's funny cause you really do and that's how, you know, you look back and you've grown. Yeah. And you're like, oh well of course. I mean I'm not, I don't want some clients who's only gonna pay, you know, 1500 or , you know, my first last it was 500, you know? Yeah. Now I'm like, geez, that's like giving away for free. That's like minimum wage less.

Shannon Mattern: Oh, I love that transformation. Like the, the pricing transformation. But for you, I feel like one of, you know, you said like if like take the coaching and things like that, but one of the things that I love about working with you is that you are like, if there is something that like pushes up against like your resistance or that just doesn't make sense to you or that you're like, but I don't think that could work for me. You don't just keep that like inside and then just be like, well I'm not gonna do it cause I don't think it's gonna work for me. Or like whatever. You take every opportunity to be like, help me understand why I should do it this way and not this way. And help me under like you are like, you don't just do things because someone's telling you to do it.

Shannon Mattern: I'm the same way. I'm like, I'm not gonna just do something cuz I need to really like understand and internalize mm-hmm. . And sometimes I also need to do it my way first touch the stove, burn myself and then try like, that's just who I am. That's how I learn. Me too. And I think that you are very similar in that you're gonna be like, okay, I trust you. I believe that what you're saying is true. I'm having some resistance or some cognitive dissonance. Let's talk this out. Let me get to the point where I'm willing to take the risk and find out what happens. And then you just move through. And I think like you can grow exponentially when you do it that way. Instead of being like, well I have to wait until everything is perfect and whatever to, and all lined up and then I'll make the move.

Shannon Mattern: And I think that that's what I've noticed in you and how you've been able to go from 1500 to, I know you had a stepping stone along the way Sure. But then to 10 K and thinking that 10 K is like the ceiling or like the floor of where you would ever go. So it's, it's just beautiful to watch. So thank you for, you know, when I think of who I love to work with, it's people like you who are like, but help me understand why. Like tell me why. And I'm like, Ooh, you're challenging me to like also really, truly believe in what we do and what we coach inside of our program. So I absolutely love that. So

Speaker 3: Thank you. Well thank you. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern: And one of the other big growth areas that I have seen for you is boundaries . So can we talk about what your boundaries were like before coming to work with us inside of the Web Designer Academy and what that looks like today with your clients?

Speaker 3: So, you know, you were talking about touching the hot stove first. It's like, I don't know the boundary sometimes until you cross it and you're like, ooh, no, there's, I'm gonna put a fence up there. Right? And you can respect your own boundaries And it, it's funny cuz at first it's like there's heart boundaries and I had to like be that way, right? And then you're kind of like, okay, well I can say it nicely . So a client you don't so about it. So learning those boundaries and the truth is your ideal client doesn't even flinch when you put the boundary up. You know, cuz they have theirs if they're the ideal client too, right? So I think part of it is the testing the boundaries and seeing like, Ooh, that doesn't sound so good. And doing like the work to see like, what's my ideal client, you know, like we did in one of your classes today and, and what's my not ideal client for sure. So that's definitely part of it. It's hard to stick to them, you know, sometimes, honestly. But I think the biggest boundary that I found is like the scope creep.

Shannon Mattern: Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 3: specifically, you know, like if they want something that's beyond the project, I used to just go, yeah, yeah, I'll do it or no, that's fine. It's basically saying like, I'll work for you for free. And when I kind of reposition that in my mind, , I thought, no, why am I paying them? When you kind of like switch, switch that. Yes. Or would they do that for me? I am probably not. Right? So , I'm switching that, you know, so now it's like, yeah, I would love to help you with that. Here are your two options. I can set you up and you can do it. Or this is what it'll cost. And they always pay more. They always pay more. Yeah. Because they respect that.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah. I love that thought switch of like, oh, would I actually like get up my credit card and pay for this for them because that's effectively what I'm doing when I just do it without asking them for payment. Like working for free sounds like, eh, but like actually paying for it yourself, like out of your own bank account, that is what you were doing when you, when you don't charge for stuff and it's like, well no, I wouldn't do that. So it's just so much easier to, when you think about it like that, to put that boundary in the sand. And one of the things that you said reminded me of a conversation I had with Myster over the weekend, because when her boundaries get pushed, she like rolls up in her little porcupine ball and starts shooting quills at people . And it cracks me up because I'm like, we think that in order to hold boundaries, we have to roll up into our porcupine ball and get all spiky and like protect ourselves and shoot quills at people. And that feels bad to most people. So we don't want, like if our choices say yes or do that, like yeah, we don't wanna do that. It doesn't feel good. And so we say yes, but like there is a middle way of holding boundaries that really like, it doesn't have to be that you have to like pop out all your quills and like protect yourself, embrace yourself for, you know, people coming at you or whatever. So

Speaker 3: Yeah,

Shannon Mattern: Which I, that's how I operated too. I'd say yes. Because I'm like, well it's either gonna be like a really tough, difficult conversation where I have to be like, how dare you? No way. You're not getting this for free. Or just be like, yes.

Speaker 3: Well ultimately, you know, I wanna serve my clients from a good place. And I realize that. And when, when stuff like that happens and you get like a little upset or you there a little like resentment seeks in, you know, seats in, you're like, oh, I really don't want to, but I just do it anyway. You know? Or if I'm not serving from that place of joy, yes, what's the point? You know, they don't want that side of me either. I want, and when I hire people, I want them to be serving from a place of joy.

Shannon Mattern: So Absolutely. Absolutely. Because why do this? Like why recreate ? Why recreate a day job that we left

Speaker 3: ? Yeah, right. Part of this, we created this, right? Like I created this because I want to love it and I wanna serve people that I love working with. So yeah.

Shannon Mattern: Yep. And we get to do that and it's not always gonna go perfectly, but we get to like course correct our way there. So what's a piece of advice that you'd give someone who is either just really getting started with, you know, maybe they've had a few clients under their belts, but they're really starting to kind of shift into like, okay, like I'm gonna run this as a business.

Speaker 3: Decide what you want, own it and share it with people. And if you need support, get the support you need. Because you know, people say like, I got paid back right away for my investment. Like, invest in a course to improve yourself or invest in a person that's gonna help you get to the next level. Because by realizing your own limitations and resistance, you're able to propel forward and then you look back and be like, oh thank God I did that. You know? So be uncomfortable first and take those uncomfortable steps. And even if you don't believe in yourself or you aren't sure, ask for the help to get to you to the

Shannon Mattern: Next step. That is so powerful. Oh my gosh. That like gave me chills. Okay,

Speaker 3: .

Shannon Mattern: That's better. And finally, I ask this to every guest that comes on the show, what is is one belief about yourself that you had to change to get where you are today?

Speaker 3: It's so funny. I feel like Stuart Smiley, I am good enough. I am, people love me . You know, I would say like other people believe in me, you know, it's me believing in me, right? Like things I've learned now a year ago people are like, yeah, I show told you you shouldn't have charged less than blah blah, blah. I told you you were amazing. But unless you believe it for yourself, you don't make the change or you don't stick to the change. So that whatever combination of experience you bring and perspective you bring is what your client is looking for. And there's someone out there who needs what you offer.

Shannon Mattern: Ah, so good. And it's funny that you mentioned that like it's like we all want this external validation, you know, like we wanna be told we're good enough. We wanna be told the work that we do is good. We wanna be like given you and I have talked about this before, like we wanna be given the A, you know, the a plus we wanna get the good feedback. And even as we're getting it and getting it and getting it, that external feedback can never translate into internal approval. Like you have to believe it about yourself first because all the external feedback in the world, well it feels great. If you don't believe that you're worth it, you will still do things to keep your price low or not go after the ideal clients or all the things. So I mean, we joke about it like, you know this, like I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and garf, darn it, people like me

Speaker 3: .

Shannon Mattern: But it's true. You have to believe that. Like you, you can't let other people believe it for you first. It's helpful if other people believe it for you first. It gives you a little bit of a stepping stone. And I always say like, you know, I'm willing to like, I believe that about every person that we invite to work with us and then my job is to get them to see it too ,

Speaker 3: Right?

Shannon Mattern: And then once they do, it's like, then it's on. So Kate, it has just been an absolute pleasure talking to you about your business and your journey and your experience. Can you let everyone know where they can go to connect with you?

Speaker 3: It was great to be here. Thank you so much. It's https://updesignsla.com.

Shannon Mattern: Awesome. So go check out Kate, I'll put all of that in the show notes and I'll see everyone back here next week. Bye. Thanks

Speaker 3: Shannon. Bye.

Shannon Mattern: Hey, so if you're ready to stop undercharging and overworking, if you wanna take back control of your time, work only with the dreamiest of clients and make more money as a web designer than you ever thought possible, get started now by going to https://webdesigneracademy.com and joining our waitlist. We'll send you exclusive teachings from the current Web Designer Academy so you can start applying our concepts now. And you'll be first to know when enrollment opens up again, so that you can work with us to completely transform your web design business.

Speaker 4: This podcast is part of the sound advice FM network. Sound advice FM Women's Voices amplified.