#125 – Profitable Web Design Business Roadmap

Shannon Mattern (00:04.91)

Hey there and welcome back to the Profitable Web Designer podcast. So today I have a really special episode for you. It is a replay of the Profitable Web Design Business Roadmap Training I recently hosted where I break down what's typically missing from most web designers marketing, sales and project management strategies that's keeping them stuck and unable to break through to their next level of income.

And I also dive deep into the process that we teach inside of the Web Designer Academy to help you stop undercharging, overworking, and really make more than you ever dreamed possible. And I also talk to some of our Web Designer Academy students about how our strategies have helped them reach their big goals.

So if you want 2025 to be the year everything falls into place in your web design business, this episode is for you. Actually, no matter when you're listening to this, this episode is for you. And we are currently and always accepting applications for the Web Designer Academy to work with us. So after you listen to this episode, if you're like, yes, this is exactly what I've been missing.

then just go to webdesigneracademy.com forward slash apply, fill out our super quick zero obligation application. And if I'm confident our strategies can help you reach your goals, I'll invite you to work with us and tell you what your next steps are. It's as simple as that. So that's webdesigneracademy.com forward slash apply. And let's go ahead and dive in to our profitable web design business roadmap training.

Shannon Mattern (00:00.854)

So go ahead and grab your pen and paper so you can take lots of notes and jot down any questions that you have because we're gonna go ahead and dive into the roadmap. So the steps I'm gonna share with you today on the surface might look fairly obvious, especially if you're already at the high four and five figure a month mark in your web design business and you're looking to grow from there.

but there are some key nuances that I'm gonna share with you today. And all of these strategies work together as a holistic ecosystem of systems and processes to help you much more easily raise your prices, book more projects, stop the overworking, stop the scope creep, stop the never-ending revisions and dropping everything for client emergencies to even like stand out in a saturated market. And I'm gonna talk a bit later about how you will invite people

down this path with you, but in order to like genuinely invite them and confidently lead them, it's important to know where you're going first. So let's start with the first stop on the roadmap, which is your consultation. So I want you to think of your consultation, not as a sales call, but as a first date. And you're simply like getting to know each other to see if you're a good fit and to see if the relationship should continue.

And when you use the process that we teach inside of the web designer Academy and the scripts that we give you, your consultation is where three very important things happen. First, you naturally establish, establish yourself as the leader of the project, as the one in charge, you naturally start getting the client focused on what's possible for them in their business and in their life. When working with you based on the questions that we have you ask, and you empower your client to.

make their own decisions and have choices. And so the first choice that you'll offer to them is actually the second stop on the roadmap and that's paid discovery. So I want you to think about paid discovery as the dating phase of a relationship. You had your first date, you had the consultation, paid discovery is where you do the strategy portion of your project first as a separate paid project.

Shannon Mattern (02:20.459)

And then you make an offer at the end of that project to implement the strategy or to design and build the website, which would be the next step on the roadmap, the package matrix. And so the paid discovery is typically what you're already either doing unpaid in your proposal process. You're doing all this unpaid research to put together a price, or you're doing it paid in the beginning of your web design projects. And that's when you discover

my gosh, this project was like way bigger than I thought it was going to be. And now there are so much more and now I have to go back to the client with, with all of these changes. And most of you just end up eating the cost of that in the additional hours because you're like, I should have thought of that before it's my fault. I'll just take care of it. Right. So if that resonates with any of you, just say yes in the chat.

and let me know, but the paid discovery step, it's so, so powerful for a few reasons. Yeah, so one, it's a win-win for you and your client. You get paid to do the research that you need to do to put together an accurate proposal that truly paints the picture of the long-term value of the project to the client so that when you put a price on it, it's actually profitable and sustainable for you.

And also it gets your client thinking not about like, this is a five page website, but it starts getting them thinking about what's the value of the result that I'm gonna get after this, like after we launched this project versus how much is this gonna cost me, right? And paid discovery also takes the risk and uncertainty away from your client because deep down they're like, my gosh, if I give this person all this money, will I really get what I want? Paid discovery is your opportunity to

show them that they're going to get exactly what they want. And here's the really cool thing about paid discovery. It replaces the need for a portfolio, for case studies and testimonials. If you have those, awesome. If you want to create them in the future, awesome. But you don't have to have them when you have the ability to show potential clients exactly what you'll do for them instead of showing them what you've done for other people.

Shannon Mattern (04:45.291)

The paid discovery process we give you inside the web designer academy is designed to help you build so much trust and so much credibility with your potential clients, which is what you've been trying to establish with a portfolio or testimonials or case studies, or even working for super cheap to gain experience or get referrals. so paid discovery is how you go from selling the same 10 page website with logo and branding that everybody else is selling to selling

results and outcomes and showing your client what they can create when they use the website that you built for them. And so we give you all of the paid discovery processes, scripts, and all of the things when you come to work with us inside of the Web Designer Academy and it walks you through how to do paid discovery in a very natural and authentic way. And our students are having massive success offering paid discovery.

to their clients. And so in your consultation on the first step on the roadmap, you'll use our script to ask the client if they'd like to start with a paid discovery step or if they'd like to skip that step and go straight to you making an offer to them without a paid discovery step. And you'll tell them the pros and cons of that choice that we outlined for you in the script and you'll let them make the choice.

And it's okay if they wanna skip straight to seeing packages and pricing because all of the steps on this roadmap are strategically designed to make sure that regardless of what the client chooses, that they are in control of how they want to be sold to and that you're meeting the three core needs of closing high ticket sales, no matter which option they choose.

So if you've attended previous trainings or listened to the profitable web designer podcast, you may have heard me talk about the three core needs of closing high ticket sales. And this is a huge, huge, huge opportunity for all of you who are here today, because when you're selling high ticket offers, and when I say high ticket, I mean at least four figures and above like web design projects, there are three boxes, mental boxes that your offer must check.

Shannon Mattern (07:08.117)

for your prospective clients in order for them to feel safe, to take the risk of committing their time and money and emotions to a project. So the first box to check is that your client must feel that it's worth their time and money. Not that you are worth their time and money, that it is worth their time and money. And that is a very

important distinction. So many of you are focused on selling yourself and your skills or showing portfolios and trying to prove that like, look, I've done this for other people. I can do it for you. But your clients are more interested in what you can create for them. They're not buying you. They're not buying your skills. They're not buying what you've done for other people. They're buying

outcomes for themselves. And so they have to feel like they know what that is and that is worth their time and their money. And they also need to trust you. They need to trust that you are the one that can help them solve their problems and reach their goals. need to feel psychologically safe enough to share sensitive information with you that you'll need to be able to put together an accurate like offer and project plan for them. And so

the sales process needs to feel safe to them. And they also need to feel like they always have choices, like they always have options, like they're always in control, like they're never trapped or backed into a corner or baited and switched. And so when I talk about they need to feel like it is worth it, it is worth it. What that means is they need to feel like the value of what they are getting

is more than the price, meaning the emotional outcomes, the personal outcomes, the business outcomes that they'll create as a result of working with you and launching this website and using it to reach their goals, that what they will ultimately create with all of that is way, way more than the price that you're charging. So it's not just about how much more money they can make though. It's about how much more time will they have.

Shannon Mattern (09:32.127)

What will they be able to do with that time? How would they feel when someone they trust is handling everything for them? There are so many intangibles that are more than just money here. And so not only that, you also need to believe that the value of what you create for your clients is greater than the price. This is such a huge opportunity for so many of you here today, because if you don't believe it, you'll never raise your prices.

Your voice will waver if you do, you'll delay sending proposals, you'll lower your price, you'll over-deliver, you'll burn yourself out because you won't be in alignment with your pricing and also you won't market your business. Why would you market your business if you don't feel like the value of what you do is worth the price that you're asking clients to pay, right? And so that's why the steps on this roadmap are so, so powerful. They're not only designed to help you meet those

three core needs of closing high ticket sales for your client every step of the way before the sale, during the sale and after the sale, they also sell you on your own price so that you stop undercharging and over delivering. I cannot tell you how many of our web design students have gone through this paid discovery process and thought, my gosh, I thought I was gonna charge half as much.

as I decided to charge at the end because I see how powerful this will be for my client when I do this for them. And so that's why the next step on the roadmap is to always offer what we call a package matrix to your potential client. That's this third step right here. And it's what checks that autonomy box for your clients.

Our package matrix strategy, the package matrix is like how we make offers in the web designer academy. It's the most valuable asset that our students create in their web design businesses when they come to work with us. A package matrix is a very specific strategic way of making an offer to work with you that gives your client the choice of how they want to work with you. So you can think of it as a proposal, but it's so much more than that.

Shannon Mattern (11:55.165)

If you've been around here for a while, you've probably heard me talk about pricing paradigms and how there are expense minded clients who only think about money today, costs today. There are investment minded clients who are more focused on, if I part with this money today, how much more can I make in the future? And then there are hybrid minded clients who are somewhere in between. They're not fully willing to like let go of the money, but they believe that it's within their power to create the results that they want.

and everyone always wants to know, how can I just find investment minded clients? What room are they all hanging out in so I can just like go in there and only work with those people? And the truth is that you've probably already worked with them. You probably already know them. You've probably already talked to them. You're probably already connected to them. You just didn't know because you never gave them the choice.

All you ever did was give them an ultimatum. said, this is how much it costs to work with me, yes or no. And that's because you didn't offer a package matrix. And so our package matrix strategy allows you to give your client choices of the level that they wanna work with you and how they want to commit their resources to create the outcomes that they want. So.

What are they willing to commit to the project? Do they want to spend their time? Do they want to spend their money? Do they want to spend both? And it allows you to stay out of your client's wallets and allow them to choose what they value most. And they will still get the same outcome at the end, but you're able to put profitable, sustainable prices.

on your packages based on how much of you is involved in the project. And so when you make an offer using our package matrix strategy, you just automatically and intrinsically check those boxes of the three core needs of closing high ticket sales because your client has all the information that they need. They have choices and it creates safety for them to make a decision. And you with our package matrix strategy,

Shannon Mattern (14:07.763)

you get to test safely, test higher prices. You get to set boundaries with your client before they ever step over them, instead of trying to set boundaries after the fact. Our package matrix is so powerful. It helps you prevent scope creep. It helps you stay out of your client's wallets and it helps you confidently make offers. And when you come to work with us in the web designer academy, we show you how to package matrix, your current packages and services. You don't have to come up with new offers.

It's just a restructuring of how you're currently offering what you already do. We help you figure out your new pricing. We show you how to present all of that to your clients and walk you word for word, how to invite your clients to work with you using a package matrix, whether that's off the backend of a paid discovery engagement, or if it's off that, if they chose to go straight to a proposal on your consultation. And so our package matrix,

strategy also helps you stop undercharging and over delivering, especially when you're transitioning a client off of a web design project and onto a retainer or a care plan or a maintenance package, whatever you want to call it.

we help you structure that offer to set boundaries and allow your clients to choose how much they wanna spend and how deeply they wanna work with you. And so I love when our students get to the point in their journey with us that they start using the package matrix because it always blows their mind. They're always shocked that once they actually put different options in front of their client and

allow their client to self-select whether they're investment minded, hybrid minded, or expense minded, that they actually do know investment minded clients. And it always blows their mind. Like this is my favorite statement to hear. It's like, was shocked. I tried to hide my surprise. I couldn't believe it. So your investment minded clients are out there. You just need to give them the choice to be investment minded.

Shannon Mattern (16:21.417)

So after you have made an offer, the next step is deceptively simple. It's follow-up. And this might seem like such a tiny step that it doesn't even belong on the roadmap, but it's a huge, huge opportunity for almost everyone in this room to not just leave proposals open-ended and floating out there. How many of you have had a client come back like a year later?

and say, I'm ready to work with you now. And the price that you charge them was like way less than what you're charging now. I know that has happened to so many of you. And also because you tell so many stories in the space between putting the proposal out there and following up. If you don't hear back, you're like, my gosh, I knew it was too expensive. I knew that I...

I knew I shouldn't have charged that much. They must think that I'm X, Y, Z and you fill in the space between sending over the proposal and getting an answer with so much drama a lot of the times. And so your job is to give your prospective client all of the information that they need to make a decision and then follow up until you get an answer. Because as the saying goes,

The fortune is in the followup and we're afraid to follow up because we're afraid of what they might say. You're too expensive. You're not good enough. You just want my money, whatever story our brain wants to offer up. And so because we're telling those stories, we miss a huge opportunity to find out what's really holding them back and answer those questions and address their concerns and just help them make a decision one way or another. Followup is not about being pushy or sleazy.

or pressurey or even greedy. It's about helping them make this really important decision. Do I want to do this project or not? And if not, or not right now, cool. It's not about you. And you're letting the person live rent free in your mind or mentally keeping space for them on your schedule, just in case when you don't follow up and you don't get an answer. So follow up when done the right way can build a massive amounts of trust and credibility and position you as a total professional.

Shannon Mattern (18:48.085)

And when you do it in the way we teach you inside the web designer academy, it really shows that like you're the one running the show. And so just like with everything else we do, we tell you exactly when to follow up, what to say when you do, and just help you manage your mind around it. Because on the surface, it seems like no big deal, just a quick email, but there's usually a mountain of mind trash standing in the way of you following up. So those first.

four steps on the roadmap should like they're all designed to work together and they will ultimately lead you to a new project probably at the highest price that you've ever sold a project for. If you're like most of our students and by the way, if you've done it once you can do it again and again and again and again. And once you've gotten that, yes, now you're moving into the project management phase of the roadmap.

where your job is not just to design and build the website, which you're so excited about, you're already so good at, you know how to do that. It's your job now to take your client by the hand and lead them through the project like the professional that you are. And so the way we do that in the Web Designer Academy, the next step on the roadmap is project kickoff. And again,

seems so simple on the face of it. You get a contract signed, you get a deposit paid, but it's also where you communicate and re-communicate how the project's going to go, project timelines, what's happening when, what's your responsibility, what's the client's responsibility, what are all the project milestones, how do revisions work, things like that. And the way we teach it in the Web Designer Academy is like you start with a kickoff call where the client

like you and the client get together and you get their buy-in on all of these things and you set dates together for all of these things. And so after you've kicked off the project and you've gotten the client's buy-in, you'll start the actual design and development work, but your job also becomes zombie scope creep and zombie project prevention. So we give you everything that you need.

Shannon Mattern (21:09.141)

to manage and run your projects like a pro. If you come to work with us in the web designer academy, we give you sample project timelines, milestones, project planners, scripts for the kickoff calls, the design meetings, the revision meetings, the launch meetings, email scripts for every single project communication. And our systems and processes are awesome. Like don't get me wrong, all of those are extremely powerful for starting and ending things on time. But the design build phase is where you are at

the most risk for time and money leaks. So in so many of your applications, I see this as a huge area of opportunity for you to get back a lot of your time and make even more money because it's the design build phase, whether you're using our systems and processes or using your own, this is where the employee mindset, the perfectionism, the people pleasing, the imposter syndrome can really take over, especially if you charge appropriately.

for the first time ever, you are at even more risk of over-delivering and under-charging and people-pleasing and perfectionism and imposter syndrome. So fixing over-delivering, it's a mindset issue, it's a boundaries issue. It is a systems and processes issue, but your mindset can override your ability to follow your systems and processes so quickly, you won't even see it happening. But fixing over-delivering is one of the biggest opportunities you have.

to make more money in your web design business. And so, like I said, that's why I call this phase, the phase in which you're designing and building the scope creep and zombie project management phase. So scope creep is what it sounds like. It's when the scope just balloons past what you and the client originally talked about. Zombie projects are when the projects just go dormant. They're like undead, right? The client is just delaying or not responding.

or not giving you what you need to move forward with the project. And so in a perfect world, you'd set up all of the systems and processes in whatever awesome project management tool you wanna use. And your client would just follow all of your systems to a T and never miss a deadline and never wanna change anything. And you'll start on time and end on time with zero changes. Like has that ever happened to any of you? Like if it has, keep that client forever.

Shannon Mattern (23:37.503)

But I'm guessing it hasn't happened to many of you because that's really just not how humans operate because your clients are humans. They have their own mind trash about their own business. They have free will to do whatever they want, regardless of your systems and processes. And so it's during this phase where your employee mindset pops up and your people pleaser shows up and your perfectionist wakes up and has you

changing the schedule for the client and saying yes to everything and overworking to make sure that it's perfect because they paid so much for it or telling yourself, that was my fault. I should have known. So I'm just going to eat the cost of that and do it while I'm on vacation and whatever, or, my gosh, the client's going to be so mad at me if I don't drop everything to handle this emergency. Right. So it happens to all of us. And the good news is that when you start following this holistic

set of systems and processes that we've laid out for you in the roadmap, you will have already established and communicated all the boundaries a lot of times and the processes and the project scope a lot of times. And you will have empowered your client every step of the way to choose how they want the project to go so that when they wanna add something or when they wanna change something or when they wanna delay, they already understand

the consequences of that choice. And so you'll be fully equipped to handle what you used to just say yes to in the moment because it felt easier in the moment, but you ended up paying for it later. You'll be fully equipped to handle that and to just remind the client about what you already talked about because we give you all of the scripts and we give you support to confidently have these conversations with your clients without any drama or anything like that.

And so a lot of people come into the web designer academy with a giant messy closet full of hot mess projects. I always think of the episode of friends where Monica has the secret closet. That's like just a giant mess and it's stuffed full of all of this stuff. A lot of you have that secret messy closet full of these just web design projects that are like you'd be embarrassed if anybody saw them. Like you didn't get a contract.

Shannon Mattern (26:01.385)

It's been a year since they last responded or you massively undercharge or you're stuck in revisions purgatory. And if you have that type of a situation, no shame or judgment here. We have all been there and we can help you with that no matter how messy, no matter if you started the project with our processes or not. And I can't tell you how amazing it feels to have those projects completed so that you can move on.

And we're here to help you with that. learning the skill of managing and cleaning up a messy project is a skill that will continue to pay off for you over and over and over again, as you start using these holistic systems and processes that we put together for you. So once you have prevented or managed the scope creep,

and the zombie projects and your app project completion. The final step is to officially close the project, which we also help you do because there are some really clear steps to closing a project. You'll let the client know that the project is done. The work that they've paid for is complete. Again, I know the steps seem so simple, but so many of you get trapped in continuing to make changes.

way long after you should be, because the client keeps coming back with all these things that they found or all these changes they want you to make. And that's where the retainer package matrix comes in. So this is just where like when you made the original offer to work with you, you get to make an offer to provide ongoing support. And the beauty of the retainer package matrix is that it lets the client decide on the level of support and responsiveness they want from you based on how much they want to spend.

or they can decide that they don't want any support from you. And then in six months, when they email you on a Saturday with an emergency, you don't feel like you have to drop everything to save them because they are an adult who made a decision and an informed choice, right? But this is how you also start building up that recurring revenue without it taking over your life because there are built-in boundaries with a retainer package matrix too. And so when you structure your offers,

Shannon Mattern (28:19.561)

not just with deliverables, but with boundaries also, your web design business gets so much easier. And so we show you how to create and offer a retainer package matrix at the end of a project, but also it can be used to wrangle in any problem clients that you have that maybe are on a maintenance plan, but email you all the time to

raise prices with existing clients who you have been massively undercharging up until now. There are so many really cool things you can do with a retainer package matrix to fix a lot of the time and money leaks that you have in your business. And so there's one more step that we need to talk about after you've gotten your, you before you even gotten your client from consultation all the way to retainer.

because you can't even get on this road without this step and that's marketing. Now, I, almost every single one of you said in your application that marketing was a huge opportunity for you. And so if you've ever wondered like, how do I get more web design clients, better clients? Where do I find investment minded clients? What marketing strategies should I be doing? I feel all over the place when it comes to my marketing and you feel so overwhelmed with it.

to the point of doing nothing and just hoping that your next client shows up in time. If any of that sounds like you, please know that you are so normal. And the truth is that any marketing strategy that you'll actually consistently do over the longterm will work. And all of your clients coming as referrals is not a problem. It's not a problem. It's an opportunity. And it's an opportunity that you can

leverage. And so I want you to think of marketing as not something that you do when you're done with a really big project and you realize you don't have your next client lined up. That is when feast and famine happens. And we want you to eventually get booked out in advance. And the way that you do that is by marketing your business consistently, whether you need a clients or not. And so

Shannon Mattern (30:47.167)

hands down the most effective marketing strategy, the one with the highest return on investment for the least amount of time, money and effort is direct outreach. It's proactively building relationships and connecting directly and personally with potential clients, potential future clients, people who might know your potential future clients, asking your referrals for referrals.

asking your referrals to have conversations with you, asking people if they wanna take the next step with you. So like I said, this doesn't mean that other marketing methods don't work. It just means that this one is the fastest and easiest to do, which means you're way more likely to do it and do it more often. And so the way that we teach marketing inside of the Web Designer Academy takes at a minimum of five minutes a week.

and we set aside five minutes a week on our live strategy calls to do it. Because it takes so little time, you're much more likely to do it consistently. And consistent marketing equals consistent clients. And we've boiled that time commitment down to a minimum of five minutes a week. And because we make it so simple and so easy instead of gimmicky and sleazy, you'll actually want to keep going. And when you keep going, that's when the momentum takes over.

That's when you say things like, I don't know how this person found me, but I just got a new consultation booked. marketing people hold themselves back from marketing because you are like, I want to know for sure that this marketing strategy that I'm going to choose will work. You can't know for sure what any other human is ever going to do ever. So you have to just commit to a marketing strategy and do it consistently without worrying about.

the outcome of that. It's the consistency part of whatever you choose to do, not the whatever you choose to do part that will work. And we teach you a system that has you connecting with potential clients, adding value to them. If you wanna think of it as like putting deposits in a value bank, just giving, connecting, offering value, and then inviting them to take the next step with you or inviting them.

Shannon Mattern (33:11.211)

like in different ways. And we give you scripts for all of this stuff. We give you the exact words to say, we give you a ton of outreach scripts. We give you a ton of ideas for who to send them to. actually strategically help you figure that out. We give you ideas on how to customize it. We coach you through sending it. We coach you through warm outreach, which is people you already know. We coach you through cold outreach, which is people that you don't already know. And

teach you how to get to know them and how to make them warm before you ask them to do anything. So we help you do this piece and we set aside, like I said, five minutes on every single one of our group coaching calls to do this. And the only thing standing in the way between you and doing this consistently is usually just some mind trash. It's probably a mountain of mind trash. If you're like most of our web designer academy students.

There's usually a mountain of mind trash in the way of you figuring out who to reach out to, what to say, worrying about what people on the other end will think about you. And we help you through all of that. And it's part of the deep work that we coach our students on in the Web Designer Academy, because those of you that have marketing as a pain point, it's your biggest, biggest, biggest opportunity to reach your goals. And with a little effort, it ultimately does become effortless.

And so you can see how if you're missing any of these steps, especially this one, but any of these steps that are really like designed to work together, or if you're piecing together a bunch of different strategies that weren't designed to work together as a holistic ecosystem to meet those three core needs of closing high ticket sales for your clients every step of the way, why you might be stuck where you are and not making the money that you wanna be making.

why you might be over delivering and hustling and overworking and experiencing inconsistent revenue, like so many of you shared with me in your applications. And when you implement everything we teach inside of the web designer Academy, this is what your web design business can start to look like. And so, you know, at the beginning, yes, you'll be spending much more time to get systems processes in place, but really what

Shannon Mattern (35:31.499)

What's happening is like you're shifting your time from overworking and over delivering from your clients to implementing some of the systems and processes we teach. And then as you start to implement our strategies, your revenue starts to increase more and more, your time levels off, and then you're able to have the capacity to do more things, to create more revenue, to ultimately reach that goal revenue.

I have some of our Web Designer Academy students here today to share with you what their journey has been like implementing the profitable Web Designer roadmap so far. They've been in our program for varying lengths of time. So I'm gonna bring up Erica Nash first, our client success coordinator, introduce herself. I'm gonna bring on our other panelists and they are gonna share with you.

more about what it looks like. And please feel free to ask any questions in the chat that you have for these students as well. And if we have time on the panel, we'll get to those. So hi, Erica.

Shannon Mattern (36:50.253)

Hello. Erica is our client success coordinator here at the Web Designer Academy. She's my partner in crime. guess people say she's like our best kept secret and our secret weapon. Not to like embarrass you, but so glad you're here. Would you introduce yourself to everyone while I pull up our other panelists? Yeah.

Well, like Shannon said, my name is Erica and I'm the Client Success Coordinator at WTA. And I love what I do. I get to see and help all of these incredible women that are doing incredible things every single day. And I get to grow a business right alongside them. I specialize in brand design. And so we get to just dive in.

to mindset things and business things and watch people just like take really massive action when they never thought they could do those things before. And it's just an absolute joy. So that's me. Well, and you're alumni of the Web Designer Academy and a designer and all those things.

you know, brilliant and all of those things. So yeah, so I'm actually gonna hand it over to Erica to moderate the panel. I'm gonna turn my camera off and I'm gonna be hanging out in the chat with you all while you get to hear from some of our Web Designer Academy students. So Erica, take it away. Amazing, thank you. Ladies, hello, thank you. We're so excited that you're here.

what we will do is we're going to go one question at a time and just go kind of round robin. I'm going to do it in the order that you're showing up on my screen. So Pauline, we'll start with you. Then we'll go to Janelle and then we'll go to Sarah and, yeah, feel free to answer the question in whatever way feels good for you. And, we'll just go from there. Sound good. Amazing. All right. So Pauline, we're going to start with you.

Shannon Mattern (39:10.573)

First question, tell us a little bit about yourself and your business and how long you've been in WDA. Yeah, hi, I'm Pauline Wilds. My website design business serves authors and solopreneurs who have written books with high-end websites. My weapon of choice is Squarespace and I joined WDA in April this year.

Amazing. Has it only been since April? That's it feels like forever. You've been with us. All right, Janelle, what about you? Hi, I'm Janelle Rollins. So I've I have a kind of a new baby business, I would call it. I just started freelancing a year ago and started adding web design just six months ago. And I joined WDA three months ago. So and I build on WordPress. Amazing.

It also feels like you've been with us way longer than that. All right, Sarah, you're up. Yeah, I'm Sarah Gio and I am a copywriter. So I was a designer for a long time and it was when I came into the program, but I was dreaming of switching. And so I've been able to do that in here. And I think it's two years now that I've been in here. yeah, coming right along. Yeah, so Sarah is one of our next level

students. So she was originally in WDA and then moved over into the next level room. All right, next question. Janelle, what? I mean, sorry, not Janelle. Pauline, sorry. Janelle was like, wait, what? Pauline, what was your web design business like before coming to work with us?

So I usually say that I had a business but it was like a leaking bucket and I knew there were lots of leaks I wanted to fix. I was pretty lucky. I had inquiries coming in and I had a website process that I liked but I wasn't turning as many of my client inquiries into projects as I really wanted.

Shannon Mattern (41:24.835)

And I was definitely dealing with some mindset stuff and feeling tugs and needs to serve people at all pricing levels, including very, very low price levels that frankly just weren't sustainable for me. So that's where I was when I came in. I love the visual of a leaking bucket. That's such a visual and such a good way to describe a business

that has a lot of growth opportunities.

What about you, Janelle? So for me being new, I just felt like I didn't even know what I didn't know yet. And I started like a lot of us probably did with just piecing together like this strategy from this person's like little free course and this YouTube and this influencer on Instagram. And I had no idea how I was supposed to be pricing things. And I really didn't know how to run a

project to be in charge of a project and guide the client through in a systematic way. And I just felt like I did not want to like learn everything the hard way. I wanted to like jump into a holistic system like this that smarter people than me had already been through and perfected and made the mistakes. So yeah, I just wanted to learn from an expert right away instead of trying to figure everything out the hard way from a million different little little pieces.

I love that so much. And it is a holistic system. That's such a great way to say it. And like, how many of us do try to piece it together at the beginning, and then it takes hours and hours and hours and days and years and that we don't necessarily have. I love that. What about you, Sarah?

Shannon Mattern (43:15.025)

Yeah, so before I joined WDA, I was running an agency and I was doing the design, the build, the copy, and it was really stressful. And it wasn't profitable and it wasn't sustainable. And then I picked up a retainer and I was really excited about that because I could finally take care of myself and have some me time. And then like, okay, maybe this will last the rest of the year. And it lasted three months and then it ended. And I was like, what do I do?

so I had been eyeing WDA for years, listening to the podcast and I was, I kind of had an inkling that I wasn't sure I wanted to keep doing design, but I knew that I could make money doing design. So I'm like, I trust Shannon from having listened to her. So I'm going to join. And, yeah, then I hopped in and things have changed. And that's all she wrote.

I love that you were a podcast lurker. I feel like we have a lot of podcast lurkers. Pauline, Janelle. Yeah. All right. So Pauline, what made you finally decide to join WDA? Yeah. So having lurked on the podcast for not quite years, but I certainly binged a lot of episodes. I was not as smart as Janelle.

was at the point where I had struggled to piece it together on my own. I was frustrated that I kept making incremental improvements and then backsliding or going off on a diversion that ultimately didn't serve me. So Janelle, real props to you for just saying, no, I'm not going to spend years figuring this out. So yeah, I was at the point where I was frustrated that I hadn't quite found that combination of sustainable.

business practices that worked for me. And on practical terms, I finished a lot of podcast episodes. Then I subscribed to the premium podcast, which was super helpful because not only do you get to hear real examples of how Shannon coaches students, but it was clear to me from that that

Shannon Mattern (45:35.521)

Once inside the program, you get a lot of support and a lot of access to Shannon and Erica. This is not one of those programs where they take your money, you get a pre-recorded set of videos, and then it's just a load of students in a Facebook group struggling to help each other. This is the real deal in terms of support from the people that promised you the expertise when you joined.

And so, yeah, because I hadn't figured it out on my own, because I had sampled and dipped into quite a lot of real examples of what was actually happening inside the program. That was the point I got to where I felt I would make the investment and join. I love that. That's so good. And also, thank you. That's so kind. Janelle, what about you? What made you decide to join WDA?

Yeah, I was also a big podcast binger and I also did the premium podcast for a while and I loved listening to the coaching. And sometimes I would hear Shannon would say something like, and make sure go back to like module four. And I was like, what's module four? Like, I need to know all of these things. I just had a moment where it just felt right. Like I was journaling and I just had this really strong feeling that something was like pulling me towards this program in particular.

I was considering a few different options and something that really resonated with me was the archetypes quiz and really the focus on mindset and the idea, this program isn't pitched as like, join us and you're gonna make a million dollars. The focus is on building a business that is sustainable for you, not like at the, making money at the cost of all else in your wellbeing.

And then also with the archetypes, I took that quiz and I got my results and I felt so seen. And I felt like I just loved that this is a program that is honoring us as individuals and each of our businesses are going to look different and be different. And we're going to run them differently because we're honoring who we are and this is our opportunity to build something that's a fit for, you for us and for our personality. So I felt kind of like the, like the soul.

Shannon Mattern (47:53.405)

at the heart of what WDA does really drew me to this program in particular. Wow, that's beautiful. And you articulated that so well. think that is exactly what we try to make WDA is just honoring each person as an individual and each business as its own sort of experiment. Sarah, what about you?

Yeah, so since that retainer ended at that time and I had been eyeing the program, I know that I love groups and I really thrive in a group environment, making those relationships, having like everybody shooting for a common goal. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna make another investment in a group and I think it's gonna be the right place. And I also, realized at this time that...

I can charge nearly any amount of money, but there's a lot of feelings that come along with that. And it was my mindset that was the biggest thing that needs the most work. And I even told Shannon this, was like, at the time I thought, well, I either need to get a therapist or I need to join WD. And I probably need a therapist anyway, but I heard Shannon talking so vulnerably on the podcast about the way she feels about things. And I'm like, I feel those things too.

And I love how she just really tackles your thinking and challenges you on, you you say a thing and she's like, that's interesting. You said that that ties back to this other thing that you've said. And I'm like, I need more of that. So yeah, that was it. I was like, got to join. That's so good. And, and I think there is really something special about, about the live calls where we are able to be really vulnerable with each other.

you know, we've seen people come in and on their first call and it's like, they're, they, something about it allows them to feel safe enough to just really be super vulnerable and just like put it all out there. And, that's amazing. And just like such an honor. So thank you for bringing that point up. All right, Pauline, what are you most proud of creating during your time with us so far?

Shannon Mattern (50:11.515)

Yeah, it's a good time of year for reflecting on things like this. think for me, well, there's something for me and there's something for my clients. So starting with me, what it actually comes down to is peace of mind that I now feel the confidence and I see a path ahead of me where I can create exactly the business I want that is sustainable for me in this season of my life. So when Janelle said it's a program that's very much geared to

what type of business do you want? We're not all aiming necessarily for the same definition of sustainable. For me, I've got the confidence now that that is completely within reach for me. And then a really nice outcome I'm seeing for my clients is my mindset shifts and my ability now to work with them on a very deep and strategic level is

already showing up in them being much better positioned to get better results for their work as they take it out into the world. So there's a, I think there's a ripple effect of empowering others as well. yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you. What about you Janelle? So for me, it's been a couple of systems and like the first thing sounds really simple, but just a time blocked weekly schedule for myself.

When I very first joined, just happened to have like four or five projects all at once that I was like stepping into. And I would have completely drowned if I didn't right away implement that new schedule for myself, which client projects I'm working on on which days. And I'm only available for Zooms on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And the other days, like I know that that's not even gonna come up. So that helped, that just helped me get organized really quickly.

And then with all of those projects, being able to implement right away the project planner and just feeling so confident to lead a project and talk with a client and say like, this is what we're going to do and these are the dates and how does this sound? And then having that as a roadmap so that the project doesn't balloon and expand way beyond what you have it budgeted for in your development calendar. Those have been a couple.

Shannon Mattern (52:35.547)

like really big wins for me that have helped me to just like keep up with everything. Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you. Sarah?

If I had to narrow it down to one thing, I would say it's the skill of outreach. Because before this program, I avoided outreach at all costs. I was like, no, only inbound leads from Instagram. I'm not going to go ask anybody. Like, I barely did it. And I have developed that skill so much in here, I feel like.

it's part of me like, I'm just good at outreach. That's one of the things I'm good at. And that's always going to serve me in my business and going forward. Amazing. Sarah is the queen of outreach. All right. Our final question, Pauline, what would you say to someone who's on the fence about joining WDA? Yes, Sarah, I had no idea that you weren't born with outreach as your superpower.

If you're on the fence about joining WDA, I can really speak for the people who are in my situation where if you already have a business, you've got some leads coming in or you've got clients, but you're constantly overworking, undercharging, then I would say you're an ideal candidate for WDA. I've gained so much clarity and confidence in the time since I joined.

I think it was brewing, it was bubbling, but WDA has accelerated those shifts to me. And yeah, let's talk about the investment. I did some scenario planning before I joined and I was anticipating and patiently thinking that the investment would take quite a long time horizon to come back. And in fact, I made back my WDA investment in four months. I'm absolutely thrilled.

Shannon Mattern (54:38.072)

And that's why I'm showing up for a call like this today. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you both. We appreciate you so much. What about you Janelle? So I would say what it came down to for me when thinking about, as Pauline said, the investment, before this, I was a teacher for 16 years. And as a teacher, I paid for my bachelor's degree and then my master's degree and then additional trainings and certifications.

And I thought, I'm serious about this new business, this new career for me, and I want to invest in this the same way. So, and I kind of thought, what would it look like? What might it cost if I don't invest in something like this? Like, I thought it would cost me time, maybe, you know, pain and suffering of zombie projects or, you know, taking on, we kind of learned to avoid like red flag clients and things like that.

Just sort of that kind of suffering and learning the hard way, like I mentioned, I wanted to avoid that. So yeah, I just, I felt like it's worth it to invest in because I'm serious about this as a career and I have big goals and dreams. So I believe in kind of like putting my money where my mouth is. So. I love that so much. Sarah, what about you?

Yeah, so well, since everyone's mentioning investment, I'll mention mine too. I joined during a short period of time where Shannon was charging double what she's charging now. And I made back my investment also within like four or five months. So it's just gonna happen if you follow along. But what got me in here is I'm the kind of person who usually if I'm not in a program, I really get in my own head.

and want to burn my business down every other week if something upsetting happens. So being in a group like this has helped me understand that I can handle anything that comes up. you know, someone says a mean comment, I can bring it to the group and everyone's going to talk me through it. Or if I have a weird like interaction with a client or I don't know what to say, there's always someone there to

Shannon Mattern (57:06.753)

support me, whether it's Shannon and Erica or just everyone else in the group. yeah, courses like this, group programs, they just keep me going. They keep it fun. And this WDA in particular is one of the safest, most welcoming groups I've ever been in where I feel like I can be completely vulnerable and share.

whatever, I can get all hot and sweaty on a call, because I shared something and then Shannon's going to coach me through it and then I'm going to feel better on the other side. And those are all great reasons to join. Yes, I love that. And I'm so glad that you talked a little bit about community. I'm just going to pipe in here and say that community is like the people that you surround yourself with is going to

impact your experience. And so that's true in business as well. And what I have found from the Web Designer Academy and Next Level community is that my experience in business is so much better than it would be if I was trying to do it by myself. And there is just something about knowing and having the confidence that if I run into something

and I don't know what to do, I know that my first step is going to be going to the group and asking for support because somebody will know, somebody will know, I don't have to have all the answers and that is a huge relief. So I appreciate that. Ladies, we appreciate you so, so, so much. Thank you so much for being here and for answering our questions and for speaking to the lovely people that are here and just all of your kind words. We are just thrilled to continue to be able to support you.

and to see your growing businesses is just such a joy. So thanks for being here.

Shannon Mattern (59:08.525)

Wow. Thank you, Erica, for like taking the lead on moderating that panel. I just am sitting back here in awe of all of you from seeing your journey, whether it's been a shorter journey or a longer journey. You all are incredible. cannot thank you enough for being here and just sharing with everyone else who's here about like what this decision and journey looks like. So thank you all.

so much. I'm going to put you all back down to attendees and then I'm going to share with you all what it looks like to come and work with us in the Web Designer Academy and just be a part of this incredible community of designers. So let me put you all back to attendee.

Hopefully don't change myself back to attendee. Bye, Sarah.

All right. Wow. These, mean, as incredible as these women are, like, I saw something in your application that made me think that you are just like them. And I invited you to be here today because just like them, you're just the kind of person that we love to work with. You remind us.

of some of our most successful students, things that you said in your application. And I'm confident that we can help you reach your goals too. And I asked all of you to share with me in your application for today's training, like what you would be so proud to have created a year from now. You see people creating those things in less than a year from now, which is amazing. And...

Shannon Mattern (01:01:05.155)

How much more possible do you think it would be if you didn't have to figure it all out on your own anymore? And if you had us guiding you, not just me and Erica, but the rest of the women in the Web Designer Academy, but Erica and I specifically like giving you feedback, helping you see things in new ways, helping you come up with solutions.

that you never would have thought of on your own. And that is what we do inside of the Web Designer Academy. So if you're here watching this today or you're watching this on the replay, it's because I see exactly how we can help you. In fact, I've actually jotted down the first three steps of your roadmap for each and every one of you that filled out an application for today. They're behind me right there. All of that has your name and the

the first three steps that I would have you take when you come to work with us to help you reach your goals. And you are officially invited to join us inside of the Web Designer Academy. So because our program is by application only to ensure that you're in the room with other women web designers who are at the same level or just a few steps ahead, and there is no other program out there like ours,

I'm gonna take a minute to walk you through how the Web Designer Academy works. So our program is a 12 month program, but that does not mean it will take you 12 months to implement our strategies or to even get results from our strategies as you heard from our panelists. But we want you to have most of the core strategies on the roadmap that I talked about today implemented in your first 90 days. So in your first

let's say 30 to 60 days, we'll onboard you, that'll happen right away. And you'll start implementing some foundational strategies and processes like marketing, like paid discovery, like package matrix, like consultations. Many of you will come into the program with those zombie projects or those difficult demanding client projects or a schedule that just feels completely out of control. And we will help you get that back on track because

Shannon Mattern (01:03:18.826)

We don't want you to wait until you quote unquote have more time. We wanna help you create more time and take control of your time from the beginning so that you have the capacity to then make the changes that you need to move forward with the strategies. And so one of the very first things that happens when you complete your enrollment is that you fill out a more in-depth intake form that asks even more questions about your business and your goals.

And then based on your application, what we've already thought about from our analysis of you and the first three steps that we came up with will make you a personalized roadmap video telling you exactly where to start in the program that will have the biggest impact and create the quickest return on investment for you. So like Pauline said, we treat you as individuals and your businesses are different. And some of you will start with marketing.

and making offers for paid discovery and learning how to make those premium priced offers with a package matrix. Others will suggest helping you get your projects moving and reigning in your clients before we have you start marketing and making offers. Others will need to help you set some boundaries with some of your current clients to get some space back in your schedule to create some relief so it feels actually safe to bring on more clients because one of the things that can happen when your business feels messy and all over the place

It doesn't matter how bad you want to market. If it doesn't feel safe to market because you're going to create more of what you already have. That's why you're not marketing, not because you don't have time or you don't know how. And so no matter where you start, where we have you start, you will go through the entire program arc throughout your 12 months before 12 months is up on your own timeline.

You'll add paid discovery into your sales process. You'll use our package matrix strategy to increase your prices and make higher price offers. You'll put recurring revenue offers in place. You'll fill any gaps in your project management process with our strategies to prevent scope creep and manage difficult client conversations. And you'll do those things in a different order based on what you bring into the web designer academy.

Shannon Mattern (01:05:38.036)

and you'll do them at your own pace and based on what's going on in your business. This is not like a one size fits all one timeline for all. There's no such thing as like getting behind or, you know, ending it too soon. You're going to be continually working on these things. And no matter where you start, you will have some mind trash come up about your value, about your pricing, about what clients think about you, about setting boundaries. You'll have some crazy client situations come up that you

need coaching on that you used to handle on your own and you used to just say yes to everything because it was easier and you didn't know how to handle it. You don't have to figure it all out on your own anymore. You'll be able to get help from me and Erica and the rest of the fam every single week on our live strategy calls. And you will be so relieved that you don't have to figure it all out on your own anymore. And when you join us, you get instant access to all of the strategies

in the entire roadmap immediately. There's no waiting for lessons to unlock. You can dive in right away. You can work at your own pace on your own timeline from wherever you want, whenever you want. And here's what you'll be doing. So how it works is that there are training videos for every single part of the strategy. Right now we have eight official modules. We have tons of bonus content, including that time blocking.

strategy that Janelle mentioned. And if there's a piece of bonus content that's gonna be the most impactful thing for you, we'll mention that in your roadmap. We give you step-by-step systems and processes and word-for-word sales scripts, literally everything you need to create, know, do or say, to book consultations, to market your business, to offer paid discovery, to sell high-ticket web design packages without overworking.

We give you templates for everything, scripts for talking to clients, sending emails for even responding to people's objections or questions or weird situations, following up with them without being an annoying, creepy stalker. So every module has training videos. It also has audio versions so you can listen on the go in our private student podcast. I don't know about you, but you'll never catch me learning.

Shannon Mattern (01:08:03.41)

at my desk, I will always be doing something else with a podcast in my ear. So we make everything available to you in podcast form. Literally everything is in podcast form in addition to video with slides if that's your jam. And so we give it all to you and we even give you templates for all of your business processes, your intakes forms, contracts, scripts, sample project timelines, a project timeline calculator.

website copy strategy guide, a website project planner, literally every single thing that you need to create for your whole web design business. We give you templates for paid disk, like running paid discovery, a workbook to give to your client for paid discovery, slides to present to your client, how to like sample package matrixes. I could go on and on and on. And I've been doing this

for way too long and I've created way too many resources for you to start anything from scratch. And we want you to take our stuff, brand it as your own, customize it in your own voice, but you're never starting from scratch. And you get lifetime access to all of the trainings, templates, videos, tools, and processes. So even though the coaching component of our program is 12 months long, the coaching and the support, you keep

the video trainings, the templates, the processes, the tools and the scripts forever. And so our student Shannon said about our processes that like we make it an easy sell. So when she says it's an easy sell, she means when she makes offers to her clients, it's an easy sell because we give her everything to say and that our processes filled holes that she had.

in her systems and that she tried so long to figure something out on her own, but it felt like something was missing. And Jessica, who was one of our paid discovery mastery students was like, I've already sold one. I'm so impressed. I'm looking forward to implementing this with all of the rest of my students. And Robin said, you've made it impossible to fail. She felt like

Shannon Mattern (01:10:24.24)

She was so professional and like just knew exactly what to do on her client calls. And Elise said that her confidence was through the roof because of all of the strategies that we give her. Parisa was looking for a quantum leap and we helped her take that quantum leap with our systems and processes. So you get lifetime access to the trainings, the systems and processes.

Then we have the coaching component of our program. That's the access to me and Erica. And every single week you have the opportunity to submit questions for our live strategy call and get coaching on strategy or mindset, or just listen in as other people get coached on things that you didn't even know you needed help with. And that's one of the reasons why our program is by application only, because we want everyone's questions to benefit everybody else.

So that's why we make sure that we're not inviting people who are too beginner into the room and too advanced into the room because we want all of the calls to be relevant to you even if you didn't know you needed to hear that thing. We also do five minutes of marketing on the call every single week. We give you one of our templates, we set a timer, you do your outreach, and we help you keep that momentum of marketing going. You're welcome to do more on your own and we encourage that.

but we create the container for you to be able to do that. So our live strategy calls are every Tuesday at 3 p.m. Eastern. You do not have to be there to get questions answered. You can pre-submit them. I'll answer them on the call. You'll get the replay of that within 24 hours. And our entire program is structured so that you do not have to be on our timeline. We have people all over the globe in our program. And we also have a

Global Live Strategy call every other Tuesday at 7 a.m. Eastern to accommodate for time zones that are not Eastern and everything we do is recorded and all of the replays go into a private student podcast. So we also give you individual feedback. So we're gonna have you write some messaging to speak to investment minded clients. We're gonna have you create a package matrix. We're gonna have you create some marketing and sales and project

Shannon Mattern (01:12:50.139)

management assets from the templates that we give you. But you're not just creating it in a vacuum all by yourself. You're going to then submit it to us and Erica and I are going to actually give you feedback. And, you know, we're like, hey, you did a great job on this. Here's something we suggest you change. Go ahead and resubmit if you need more.

more help with that. So we're looking at your packages. We're looking at your pricing. We're looking for mind trash in your offers, and we're helping make sure that you've like got all of the nuances of the strategies and that you feel really confident when you go to make offers to your clients. so you can, there's like no limit on the number of things you can submit to us for feedback on. And so we,

We actually put our eyeballs on your web design business and help you make sure that you're implementing all of our strategies. And so like Jenny said, the support that's here is invaluable. We are seriously committed to giving you all the support that you need to be successful. And Erica and I are here to guide and support you, but not only that, you will be in a community with other kind, brilliant, compassionate, smart women web designers.

who are so helpful. It is truly one of the best communities on the internet. And the community is also another reason why there's an application. It's so important to me to make sure that I'm vetting our applicants to make sure that our program is a safe space for people to be vulnerable and ask questions and be authentic and contribute without fear that they will be judged or ridiculed so that you truly feel safe to ask for the help that you need and that you're supported and lifted up.

and that you, if you come into our program with a problem or a situation that is really vulnerable for you, that you can get the support that you need. So let me ask you this, like with all of the strategies, all of these tools, all of the templates and scripts and processes, and all of the support, at the very, very bare minimum, do you think you could book at least $5,000 worth of projects? Or at least,

Shannon Mattern (01:15:08.371)

$5,000 more than you would have otherwise made. We want you to make many, many, many times more than that over the next 12 months, one year, three years, five years, because our strategies are timeless. They are platform agnostic. It does not matter if you're WordPress, Squarespace, Shopify, Wix, ShowIt, Webflow. I'm sure I'm not getting all of those. They're niche agnostic. It doesn't matter if you're e-commerce, if you're wellness, if you're anybody, you don't even have to have a niche.

If you, if they're service agnostic, truly you heard how Sarah pivoted from web design to copywriting. It doesn't matter if you offer web design or development or graphic design or brand strategy or all of those things. And they're algorithm proof. You do not need to be messing around with TikTok and SEO and all of these other things. You certainly can. Like I said, any marketing strategy will work, but you don't have to do those things. And so.

Let's just set aside additional revenue from new clients for a second. Imagine if you were charging your current clients for all of the work that you do for them and you had no drama about it. Like no drama. Like they asked you for extras and you didn't hesitate to charge for the extras or you raised your prices with current clients that you were massively undercharging for, for years and years and years.

I call those legacy clients in the web designer academy. What would it be like if you were making more from your current clients, even if you don't believe it's possible right now, but what if it was? Cause our web designer academy student Lee did not believe it was possible. She trusted our strategies. She ultimately proved herself wrong. She thought she would lose all of her clients when she raised her prices, but they all agreed to it. Now, will all of your clients agree to it? I don't know.

but we help you roll out price increases in a very strategic way that feels safe for you to do it so that you mitigate the risk of clients not coming along and that you're okay if they don't come along. Imagine if you were able to just start and end your projects on time, not have them drag on forever and have a bunch of open projects and open invoices. What if the money you were owed, you had it now?

Shannon Mattern (01:17:31.771)

Do you think it's possible that with all of our help you could get zombie projects moving? Collect on those open invoices, set boundaries that felt good to you with your clients and stop working for free. Do you think you would have more time and more money? Karen says that would be amazing. Yes, we can help you with that. And either way, our goal is for you to recoup your investment in our program in a well under a year above and beyond what you're already making.

And some of you might be thinking, Shannon, all of that sounds great. It's exactly what I need, but I'm not ready to join because I'm in the middle of too many projects. I'm super overwhelmed and I don't think I'll have the time to dedicate to it, which is exactly why you need to join. The way you're running your business right now is what's creating the overwhelm. It's your biggest challenge and your biggest opportunity. And we will help you fix that first so that you can then start on the roadmap. And the day is never coming.

that you will have all of your messy projects all nicely buttoned up and have the runway cleared to implement our strategies with zero distractions. We can help you with that part and you get to bring your messy web design business into our program. No shame, no judgment. And we will help you with that while you implement the roadmap. Maybe you're thinking I've joined programs in the past or bought other courses and I don't want to enroll in another program and waste more money.

I've looked at your application and I already see the path for you. And if I've accepted your application, I've already helped like 10 other web designers just like you, and we know how to help you. We give you a roadmap, we give you the steps, everything is available to you. There are so many different ways to get support and we don't make you throw away everything that you've learned in other programs and only use our strategies. Our paid discovery and package matrix strategies really allow you to leverage

what you've learned and what you've loved from other programs. And if you really are committed to this being your business, I want you to just question the belief that you've ever wasted money on other programs. You've got something out of it, something valuable, something that's worth more than what you've paid for it, something you can take with you in your journey. And when you come to work with us, you will inevitably get even more out of those investments because your mind trash won't be in the way anymore.

Shannon Mattern (01:19:52.667)

you'll be able to fold those strategies in. So just think about that. And some of you might be thinking 12 months, that's a long time. A lot can happen in a 12 months. That feels a little risky or like a big commitment. What if I joined and it's not what I thought? What if I get in there and it's really nothing new? I already know all of this. I already have all of this. Or what if I hate it? Or what if it's more like an episode of Real Housewives than an episode of Friends? That's why we have.

the 30 day trial period, I have had the chance to vet you and your application. I am so confident that with what you told me in your application and what was on your website that you will fit in beautifully, but also I'm giving you the chance to vet us in your first month and you can opt out for any reason in those first 30 days and you only pay for one month in the program.

Some of you also might be thinking $5,000, that is a lot of money, Shannon. And first, I just want you to know, like, I get it. I totally get it. And I also wanna remind you that you can spread that out over 12 months if that feels good to you. But also, I want you to think about how many more times you'll make $5,000 over the next one, three, five years even by coming to work with us now.

then if you say no and you continue to do things the way that you're doing them, which you all told me in your applications is not working for you. And if you follow our process for an entire year, an entire year, and for some reason you don't book $5,000 worth of additional projects, you can continue working with us for another year at no additional cost. We are just as committed.

to the success of your business as you are. And I would not have invited you to join if I did not think that we could help you. So the last thing I'll say before I bring Erica back on and we dive into questions is this. If the Web Designer Academy feels like it's what you need to make your web design business finally work for you, but you feel like now is not the right time, why would you wait? And I don't mean this as like...

Shannon Mattern (01:22:04.685)

Why wait? Like in a salesy way. I really mean like, why wait? What is holding you back? And write that down. Why would you wait?

And then ask yourself like, what might be different if you didn't wait.

What would you delay? Why would you delay creating the outcome you really want by waiting? The sooner we can work together, the sooner we can help you shift those thoughts that are holding you back in your web design business, the sooner we can help you raise your prices, like help clean up some of the messes in your web design business and help you create the results that you really, really want. I'd be so excited to work with you in 2025.

Shannon Mattern (00:03.406)

So if what you heard today sounds like what you need to solve some of the challenges you've been experiencing in your web design business, I would love to see your application. I cannot tell you how many people who ultimately join us say, Shannon, I've been listening to the podcast forever and I finally just decided to go for it. And they're so glad they did. So just go to webdesigneracademy.com forward slash apply. Tell me a little bit about what your web design business looks like today and what you want it to look like a year from now.

and I'll take a look at your application, check out your website. And if I'm confident our strategies can help you reach your goals, I'll invite you to work with us. I'll give you all of the most up-to-date program details and tell you what your next steps are. Zero pressure, zero obligation. You're simply giving yourself the option to take the next step. So that's all I got for you this week and I'll see you back here next week. Bye.