#106 – Full-Time Income Framework for Web Designers

Speaker A [00:00:00]: I'm Shannon mattern. For those of you who don't know me, or maybe we just met and I'm obsessed with helping ambitious women web designers create profitable and sustainable and fulfilling web design businesses. And my co host is here with us today, Erica Nash. She is our web designer Academy client success coordinator. I'm going to walk you through the five core systems and processes to have in place to have a profitable, sustainable, and fulfilling web design business. And what we see a lot of web designers doing, that, that's keeping them stuff. And then Erica has invited some of our current web designer academy students to talk to you about their web design business journey so far. If you're watching this on the replay, you'll see a berry colored button in the bottom right corner of the screen.

Speaker A [00:00:45]: If you have any questions at all, just click that button, ask away. And we're so excited that you're here. It is my goal for today's training to be really eye opening and just give you a lot of clarity on how to move forward to make the next twelve months of your business your most profitable, sustainable, fulfilling and rewarding yet. So first, I just want to share the types of people that we work with. So most of you are a full time freelancer. You're amazing at what you do, your clients love you, but behind the scenes, you're overworking, you're over delivering. You're not making as much as you want to be making. You're not making consistent revenue.

Speaker A [00:01:28]: You feel stuck, maybe a little burnt out and frustrated. Maybe you used to love your web design business, but not so much anymore. Maybe you've been in the design space for a while and you're starting to add web design services and you want to prevent some of the undercharging, overworking and burnout in the first place. Or maybe you've been doing it in your current business and you don't want to carry it over into your web design business. A handful of you are already five figure hustlers, so you're already creating those five figure months, but you're completely maxed out. And there are some bottlenecks in your web design business that need to be fixed. And you might feel like you're maxed out on your, um, your prices and your capacity to take on more clients, but in reality, you aren't even close to hitting your revenue ceiling like you'll see here today. Um, and some of you also might be side hustlers or co parents or single parents or a caregiver for someone else.

Speaker A [00:02:23]: So you have some real time constraints, whether you want to replace your nine to five income so that you can quit your day job or contribute to your family financially or whatever your personal reasons are for wanting to be your own boss. And you've tried to solve this time constraint problem with strategies like vip days, or passive income, or templates or recurring maintenance plans. But you can't, just can't seem to get the number of clients and customers that you need to make that consistent revenue. And you want to be making two to five times more than you are making right now so that you can provide, so that you can contribute more to your family, so that you can reach those personal financial goals, so that you can make a living doing what you love and having the lifestyle you want to. You want whatever that looks like to you. So you want to love what you do and who you do it for. And stop feeling like you have no control over who you work with and when and how much you're working. And you started your web design business for freedom, flexible stability and independence.

Speaker A [00:03:25]: But right now it feels like it's either totally out of your control or like it's controlling you. We see you and we hear you and we've been there and, and we're here to help you. So today I'm going to show you how to create that profitability and that control and ultimately that consistency. Because that is what leads to fulfillment. And here's the thing. Having a profitable, sustainable web design business doesn't just happen because you're good at web design and because your clients love you. Every single one of you here is super talented and amazing at what you do, but you're struggling to make the money you want to make or have the control you want to have, because you just have some really common, normal time and money leaks that are preventing you from having a profitable web design business. And I'm going to show you how to fix those today so that you can make the next twelve months and beyond of your web design business more profitable and fulfilling than ever.

Speaker A [00:04:17]: And that's exactly what we do here at the web Designer Academy. We don't teach web design. We teach the skill of running a web design business. And that is hands down the most lucrative skill that you can learn that will continue to pay off for you regardless of how tech changes or what services you offer or who your clients are. We help you create profitable, sustainable, fulfilling web design businesses. Meaning you're making the amount of money you want to be making. You're making it consistently. You've designed a work schedule around your life instead of fitting your life around work.

Speaker A [00:04:54]: And you love what you do when you're working, and you have plenty of time for doing what you love when you're not working. What is it that you ultimately want to create in your life as a result of what you create in your business? For example, Caitlin, who wakes up every day and can't believe that this is her business. Or Janet, who was really burnt out and lacking confidence after splitting off from a business partner who ran the business side of their web design business for them and she wanted to fall back in love with her business. Or like Lee, who accidentally built a web design business that made her feel as trapped as she did in her corporate job. And this is what we're ultimately obsessed with helping you create. So when I say I want to help you make the next twelve months of your business your most profitable yet, yes, I mean money, but not at all costs. Like just ask our five figure hustlers who are making tons of money but feel completely trapped. We also want to help you do it in a sustainable way that also allows you to have a fulfilling life in business.

Speaker A [00:05:58]: So how do we help you do this? With our Five P framework. So our Five P framework is a strategic, interdependent set of business systems, processes and strategies that fix common time and money leaks that most web design businesses have, like people pleasing and employee mindset, and being in your clients wallets and perfectionism. And it helps web designers solve the underlying issues around a lot of the challenges that they face, like undercharging and over delivering and overworking. And all five pieces of our five P framework work together as a holistic strategy to empower you to sell web design projects at higher prices than you ever thought possible, start your projects on time, finish them faster and on time, prevent scope creep, prevent never ending revisions, and serve your clients at a really high level without feeling trapped and overwhelmed. So let's dive into the five P framework and how it works to ultimately help you create a consistent, generous, full time income while being in total control of your time. So the five systems that make up our five P framework are packages, pricing, positioning, pre framing and premium client experience. And with packages and pricing that refers to like, what services are offering and what your pricing structures are. Positioning is the concept that how you present your services to clients influences how they make buying decisions.

Speaker A [00:07:30]: Pre framing means all of the ways that you prime your potential clients to think about your pricing and premium client experience is how your clients experience working with you and how you experience working with them after reviewing thousands of web designer academy applications, where I can see what people are doing publicly on their websites. And then I also get a behind the scenes look at all of the problems that they're having with overworking and feeling burnt out and wanting things to be different, but feeling really stuck and at a loss. It's because they're either missing pieces of the five P framework or they have them, but they're using them in a way that actually kind of perpetuates the problems that they're having. So let's dive into these five areas and what we see web designers doing, that's keeping them overworking, overwhelmed and plateaued. And then I'll show you what to do instead. So almost everyone that comes to us is selling their services as packages. And that is great. That's what we want you doing.

Speaker A [00:08:32]: We don't want you charging hourly, and I don't see that see hourly charging that much anymore with our applicants. But what I do see almost entirely across the board is packages that just list out, like the number of pages that are included and branding and a logo design and SEO and copywriting. And pretty much everyone has very similar packages with a list of deliverables, give or take a couple of services. And the problem is that when your packages are apples to apples, what everyone else is doing, the deciding factor comes down to what you don't want it to come down to. It comes down to price, the lowest price. And so then you try to different differentiate yourself with your skills or your aesthetic, or your portfolio, or your niche. We have to be honest, there are a ton of incredible web designers out there. And the barrier to entry to being good is lower than ever as platforms like Squarespace and Showit and page builders get better and easier to use.

Speaker A [00:09:33]: And that's a good thing. Like, it's a good thing that there are lots of really great web designers out there. So we want you to do it differently, and I'm going to show you how in just a little bit. Another thing I see all of the time when reviewing applications is just massive undercharging. After years and years of working with mostly women web designers, what we commonly see when it comes to pricing is where we see prices that are set based on what other web designers are charging or what you think clients are willing to pay. Or there's like a time for money calculation that's been made somewhere along the line. Like, this is how much money I want to be making an hour. And this set of services should take me about this much time and I need to sell this many of them to make this much.

Speaker A [00:10:21]: So that's how much I'm going to charge. And the problem here is that it takes the same amount of time, energy and effort to land a $2,000 client as it does to land a $10,000 client. It takes the same amount of time, energy and effort to build a website that you charge $2,000 for as it does to build a website that you charge $10,000 for. And oftentimes it takes more time and energy to build that $2,000 website because somehow they just drag on and on and on forever, don't they? And it's not because those clients are trying to take advantage of you. It's that those price points often attract, like beginner business owners who are hustling really hard, who don't really know what they don't know who are like, have bitten off more than they can chew, and they're kind of all over the place. So when you're pricing based on what you think people can afford or what you think people are willing to pay, you will for sure get people who can't afford more than what you're charging, and you're the one that ends up paying for it. So the other thing that we see, when everyone's packages have the same deliverables and everyone's charging what everyone else is charging, and everyone's great at what they do, and everyone has an awesome website, how do you get clients to choose your web design package? And that's when everyone's like, well, the solution to that problem is you have to have a niche. You have to have a very specific client avatar at a very specific industry that you specifically help with a specific thing, or you will drown on a sea of sameness.

Speaker A [00:11:51]: That's the conventional wisdom. Or they say, like you have to go super premium and go after only those high end clients, or you go budget and you go for a volume of clients and listen, there is nothing wrong with any of that. There's nothing wrong with having a niche or a portfolio, or a specific client you serve, or any of that. But it is not a requirement for a profitable, sustainable web design business. And a lot of times that keeps you guys stuck and working on your website and working on your marketing and rebranding and choosing, testing out different niches. We approach positioning in a completely different way at the web designer academy that makes looking at what everyone else is doing completely irrelevant and unnecessary. So another thing I see web designers do is put starting at prices on their websites. And on the surface, it seems like a great strategy to prime people to know like, hey, we're not even going to talk unless you're willing to spend this much money on your website.

Speaker A [00:12:52]: Like, it makes sense on the surface when you're like, I'm selling a service and some deliverables and your clients, like, they're selling a service and some deliverables, that you'd want to establish a floor price floor to weed people out who don't want to pay that much for a website. And you want to know that if you're talking to someone that they're on board with that price floor. But the problem is that you're potentially leaving so much money on the table when you put the focus on the floor. And our pre framing strategy isn't focused on price, it's focused on value. And that's what empowers our students to be able to charge two, three, four times more for a service and deliverables. And I'll talk more about that later. And so when it comes to client experience, what we often see as web designers conflating saying yes to everything, like schedule changes in scope creep and never ending revisions, and being on call 24/7 with providing a premium client experience. And that is a recipe for overwhelm, burnt out frustration and resentment.

Speaker A [00:13:55]: And I see so many people trying to solve this problem by saying, I just don't want to work with clients anymore. I want to sell templates, or I don't want to do long projects, I just want to do vip days, or I just want to get everyone on a maintenance plan or retainer package. And I don't want to do projects. And it rarely works because, and it's not because those strategies don't work, it's because you didn't solve the core underlying issues that create the problem of over delivering burnout and frustration in the first place. So if any of this sounds familiar to you, I just want you to know that you are so normal and I am so glad you're here. You don't know what you don't know. And that's okay, because why would you? The skill of web design is so different than the skill of running a business. My background's in marketing and it, and I knew how to build really effective, powerful websites for my clients.

Speaker A [00:14:54]: They helped them reach their goals. I knew how to like market my business. I figured out how to get clients, but I was still doing all of the same things I see our applicants doing. And my business was just leaking time and money all over the place. I didn't know what I didn't know about running the business side of a web design business. I didn't know that the way that I had my packages structured and my pricing and positioning was contributing to my problems. And I didn't know anything about pre framing at all. And if anything, I was priming my clients to focus on paying me the lowest possible price.

Speaker A [00:15:30]: And that's just what I thought. A premium client experience who was just saying yes to everything. And that was costing me not just time and money, but my mental and physical health too. And I just didn't know it could be done any other way. So you are so normal for not knowing this. Please don't feel bad like you've been making out a bunch of mistakes. You haven't. You do what conventional wisdom says to do, but that results in overwhelm, overload and overworking and burnout and plateaued revenue.

Speaker A [00:16:04]: And this is what happens. You're working all the time, but your revenue has hit a ceiling and you want to be making more, but you're at capacity and you think that the solution is to take a break or upskill or choose a new niche or rebrand or redesign and start fresh. But that never really solves the problem either. So you just end up starting over again with the same problems and finding yourself here again. And that's why I'm so glad you're here, because you don't have to do any of that. And how you can potentially double, triple or even five x what you're making right now without having to overhaul your entire web design business. We literally have hundreds of stories of what I'm going to share with you today, like, and how it's transformed the lives of so many of our web designer academy students. So what? I'm basically auditing your web design business during the application review process.

Speaker A [00:16:56]: This is what I'm typically seeing on the front end of your business, and I'm hearing that you're overwhelmed and overworking. So let's talk about what to do instead to create the results that you really want to create. So instead of selling packages, pages, packages, pages, logo, branding, whatever services you offer, when you implement the five P framework, you'll be selling results, solutions and outcomes. Outcomes that happen as a result of the service that you provide and the deliverables that you create. And because you're selling solutions, outcomes and results, your price gets to be based on the value of those solutions, results and outcomes to your clients. And that price gets to be sustainable for you. So when Kayla was charging $1,500 on average for work that was not sustainable for her, it made her feel resentful. She had to do way more work than she wanted to, to make the kind of money that she wanted to be making.

Speaker A [00:17:55]: And then when she changed nothing about what she was offering, but changed how she was offering it and how she was thinking about it and how she was talking about it, she was able to charge 10,000 for it. And it felt sustainable and freeing. And so in order to be able to sell projects at those profitable, sustainable prices, when it comes to the third p and the five p framework positioning, it's not external positioning. It's not how do I compare to other web designers, it's how do I compare to me? And so instead of making offers and putting together packages that are basically giving clients an ultimatum, like, here's my package, here's my price, do you want to choose me or do you want to choose them? Someone else, you're giving your clients a choice. How would you like to work with me? At what level? In what capacity? You don't need to go look anywhere else. I can meet you where you are, and it's totally profitable and sustainable for me to do so. And I'll talk a little bit more about that later. And when it comes to pre framing, it's not about saying, hey, this is how much it costs to work with me, or if you're not prepared to spend that much, go somewhere else.

Speaker A [00:19:05]: It's about getting your clients to think about what you do in an entirely new way, because they don't know what, they don't know about what their website can do for them. They also have the frame of reference that they're buying services and deliverables, because that's all that anybody is offering to them. And so you have an opportunity to get them to think in an entirely different way about value. And you do that well before you even start talking about pricing. You do it in your messaging, in the consultation process, in the scheduling of the consultation process, in the consultation itself. You do it when you're actually making the offer to work with you. You have so many opportunities to pre frame the value that you're missing when you just put up a starting at price, either as a barrier or a justification. And finally, a premium client experience does not mean that you give the client whatever they want whenever they want it, because that creates burnout and resentment and a power imbalance, quite frankly.

Speaker A [00:20:06]: And you can't deliver at the high level. You're capable of when you're operating that way. So a premium client experience means that you have intentionally thought through how you want to run your business in a way that aligns with you and your life, and you set up systems and processes that align with that intention. And then you proactively guide clients through the process. And when they want to deviate from that process, you don't pay for it on your side with project delays or extra work. You know how to navigate those situations in a way that's sustainable for you and empowering for your clients, like the two equal adults that you are. And so the five P framework, applying that to your web design business is how you make the next twelve months of your business your most profitable yet. So maybe right now you feel like your revenue has plateaued, like Kayla and Barb before they came to work with us.

Speaker A [00:20:59]: Or maybe you're able to book a high paying project here and there, but then they go off the rails and you end up working a ton and not making more money and maybe not even having the capacity to market or bookmark projects. Your revenue takes a dip, like Lee, who I mentioned earlier, and that was my experience a lot of times, too. Or maybe you find yourself in that feast and famine cycle because you're undercharging and projects drag on longer than the money and you need more clients than you have the capacity for to reach those revenue goals. And you want to be here, where the amount of time you're working feels worth it. The amount of money you're making feels worth it. And you're in control of your time and your life. So what is the process for bridging the gap from where you are now and how you're implementing or not implementing the five P framework in your business and how that's creating the results that you have today that you don't want and that aren't serving you. Which again, is so totally normal when you don't know what you don't know to running your business in a profitable, sustainable, and healthy and fulfilling way.

Speaker A [00:22:07]: We help you bridge the gap and put that five P framework in place in your business in seven steps. And it starts with you. It starts with you first and then your clients, and then value. And it's really, really, really important to start with you first because so many of you have built your businesses around your clients and doing whatever you think they want or whatever you think they'll pay for with you as an afterthought. And that's how we trap ourselves. So one of the first things that we do is we focus on you by looking at who you are at your core and we give you an assessment to uncover your unique web designer identity, what we call your signature archetype, your influencing archetype, how those two work together to influence what makes you really, really powerful at your core, what qualities that you have that make you really amazing at what you do and some of the things that get in your way. And we identify all of that. And after we've looked at that, then we look at how you really want to be running your business, how much time you have and when you do and don't want to be working.

Speaker A [00:23:17]: So that when you start putting systems and processes in place in later steps, you're doing it in a way that supports what you want and what you want your life to look like and what you have the capacity to take on. And again, not building it all around your clients every whim. And after we get really clear on you, your strengths, your challenges, your opportunities, what you want to create, how you want to create it. And we focus on your clients and we take you through a process to define your best clients that's unlike anything else you've ever done because you can't create packages based on results, solutions and outcomes if you don't know what those are. And those don't have to be niche related, by the way. So you have to know what your client's strengths, challenges and desires and goals are. And then you learn how to talk about what you do in terms of what your clients truly value. And we help you boil that down into five bullet points that resonate with your best clients.

Speaker A [00:24:15]: And after clear on what you really bring to the table, what your best clients really want, then it's time to determine the true value of that combination to your clients. So we walk our students through a methodical process that takes them from selling five page website, with branding and whatever else, to selling a revenue generating asset that creates a positive impact in other areas of their life. So we help you figure, we help you quantify value. And so once you have that solid foundation of knowing who you are, how you want to run your business, who your best clients are and why what you do for them is so, so valuable, then we teach you how our irresistible package matrix strategy to help you package price and position the services you want to offer in a way that empowers your clients with choices instead of giving them an ultimatum. And I, and it also keeps you out of their wallets. So this is one of the core pieces of the five P framework that helps you stop leaving money on the table and helps you stay out of your clients wallets and empower them to make their own decisions about how they want to work with you, not if they want to work with you. So once you have all of those four things in place, and you have profitable packages at sustainable prices that keep you out of your clients wallets, then you learn how to sell your new premium packages in a way that's not sleazy or salesy. You learn how to run the projects like a total pro and have it be a premium experience for you and your clients.

Speaker A [00:25:53]: And this doesn't just happen by accident. There's a very specific process from the very moment that you come in contact with the client, from like messaging to booking a call and having the consultation and presenting your package matrix in a way that pre frames the value of working with you. And every little step of the way gets the client thinking in terms of value rather than price. And there's a very specific set of systems and processes. Once you've booked a project for leading the client through the project in a way that takes into account your time and your schedule and your life outside of business, and keeps projects moving forward without scope creep and without delays, and without all of the things that keep you leaking time and money. And so the processes that we put in place really help fix any time and money leaks that you currently have or prevent them from happening in the future. And so these seven steps are how you implement the five P framework in your web design business. To go from selling websites at prices you think clients can afford, and trying to convince clients to choose you over other designers, to focusing on what's really in it for your client when they work with someone like you, and how that can ultimately benefit their business and life.

Speaker A [00:27:15]: And most importantly, when you are doing the actual work of designing, building and launching sites for your clients that you love it, and you're not stressed out or overwhelmed or feeling taken advantage of, but you feel super inspired and motivated and spacious and lights like it's worth it. And so every part of the five P framework is essential. It's not just understanding each of these strategies individually, it's how they work together in an ecosystem. And that's when you really start to create that consistency and start really seeing your revenue increase. So when you don't have packages that aren't based on lists of deliverables like everyone else is doing, but I, you know, deep in your bones that your packages empower your clients to create a return on their investment with you. If you don't have that, you won't want to market those packages or you'll self sabotage, because deep down you can't justify the price you need to charge to make a full time income. So you'll either like, lower that price or you'll over deliver. You'll package stuff and you'll end up sabotaging your, your revenue without profitable sustainable pricing.

Speaker A [00:28:22]: You need too many clients to reach your revenue goals, leaving you overwhelmed, overworking and hustling. And without positioning it properly, you'll constantly compare yourself to what everyone else is doing. And it's hard to want to market yourself and put yourself out there when you're comparing all the time and you're not totally bought into you and the value you bring to your table. And we also see people lowering their prices without clients even asking when they don't have positioning because they're subconsciously comparing to other designers and just like deciding, well, I just need to be the lowest price to get them to say yes. And when you don't, when you're not pre framing the value and you're focusing on the floor and you're not even sold on, you're just not sold on your own prices. And if you're not sold, you don't understand the value and you don't understand the value to your client. You won't be able to sell it for a higher price if you don't believe that it's worth more. And when you don't have a premium client experience, that's premium for both of you, for you and for your client.

Speaker A [00:29:26]: No amount of money can make up for the time that you took away from a vacation to work on a project, to meet a deadline, or when you have an emergency call interrupt your kid's birthday party. No amount of money can make up for the resentment you feel when clients aren't cooperating or asking for more and more and more than what they paid for. And if you don't have a solid system for managing projects and setting boundaries and expectations, and safely and confidently communicating that from the very first interaction with a client, your business will leak time and money and it will feel hard. So there's one more thing that I haven't mentioned that you need in order to create the consistency that you want, that consistent revenue consistency does not happen without this one thing. You need a simple, authentic marketing strategy that you will actually consistently do. This is not an afterthought. It is a critical piece of your business. You must consistently proactively market your web design business, and not just when you're done with the project and you realize you don't have your next client lined up.

Speaker A [00:30:40]: That's what contributes to feast and famine. And of course we want you to convert your clients to recurring revenue to even out the feast and famine. But to even get clients that you can put get like create recurring revenue situations with, you have to market your business and we want you to eventually be booked out in advance. We want you to. And the way you do that is by marketing your business consistently, whether you need clients or not. We want you always planting seeds to create future clients. And we use two tried and true, I call them algorithm proof marketing strategies. They do not rely on social media whatsoever.

Speaker A [00:31:21]: The first is a very simple process for connecting with people you already know, to build relationships, create new opportunities for connection conversation, to ultimately create clients, to plant seeds for those things to flourish. There are several different ways to do it. We have scripts and processes for all of those for you. And that's what Erica did to go from zero clients to ten k revenue months. We helped her implement our one to one marketing strategy in her business when she was starting from zero. And the other strategy is a more advanced one that we call building your own table, where you learn how to create new relationships with people you don't already know who, maybe they are your best clients, or maybe they serve your best clients in a different way than you do. And we teach you how to create those relationships, to create new clients and referrals and plant seeds that are going to grow in really unexpected ways. And we helped Erica implement this strategy too, which led her to some incredible opportunities.

Speaker A [00:32:21]: Like she designed a game, a card game that's being sold at Target and that just like was totally unexpected for her. So when you implement consistent marketing strategies, whether you need clients or nothing, really, really cool things can happen in your business. So you don't have to have a social media presence or create content or do SEO to get clients, although you can if you want to, and whatever you like to do, you are welcome to do. But we teach timeless platform and algorithm independent strategies for marketing because trends change. They change quickly, and it takes a lot of time and energy to be on the cutting edge of the latest online marketing trends. It takes a lot of time to create content. And guess what? You don't need to. So when you're so sold on the value of the outcomes your clients create as a result of working with someone as amazing as you, marketing just gets way easier.

Speaker A [00:33:19]: So do you see how if you are missing just one of these strategies, how that's been affecting your web design business. And I just want to remind you, you are so normal for not having all of these pieces. Almost no one has all of these pieces at first. And you've been investing so much time into learning the skill of web design and becoming a great web designer so that you can create powerful websites for your clients. That's obviously a requirement for having a web design business. But running a web design business is also a skill that requires time to learn, and it goes deeper than what you see on the surface of what all the other web designers on the struggle bus are out there doing. And so what you see on the surface is just the tip of the iceberg. There is so much more that happens underneath that creates a successful web design business.

Speaker A [00:34:17]: And it's especially challenging to run the business side of your web design business if you've been piecing together a bunch of different strategies that weren't designed to work together as a holistic ecosystem, or that were only designed to, like, get you clients, but weren't designed to support you after you have them. And when you're not implementing systems and processes from start to finish in your web design business that we're all designed to work together, that might be part of the reason why you're stuck the way was stuck where you are overworking, hustling, over, delivering, experiencing inconsistent revenue. And so we give our students step by step training, systems, processes and scripts for every part of the web design business of implementing the five p framework in their business, and coach them every step of the way through the process of creating profitable, sustainable, healthy, and consistent revenue so that they can ultimately create results like these. And so we have brought some of our students here for you today. I'm going to come back on camera. Welcome, Sarah, Caitlin, and Ivy. Erica has some questions that we put together for you guys to share more about your experience in our program and implementing our strategy. So I'm going to stop talking and hand it over to erica.

Speaker B [00:35:47]: Amazing. Thanks for coming, guys. So I think what we'll do is just in order that I see on the screen, we'll go Ivy, sarah, Caitlin, and then when Amy gets here, she can jump in and we're just gonna go with it. So I'll ask you some questions, and then we'll go in whatever direction it takes us. Ready? Sounds good.

Speaker A [00:36:12]: Let's do it.

Speaker B [00:36:13]: Let's do it. So, first question. So we'll start with Ivy. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your business and how long you've been in the WDA?

Speaker C [00:36:24]: So my business is Ivy Neil, web design. So thank you, mom, for a name that no one else has used. And I do web design for specifically, like, small local service businesses. So those are my favorites, too, um, deal with. And I have been building websites for different reasons for probably about ten years, um, off and on. Um, but I only this year started doing it as my own business, out on my own, um, so that's been a lot to learn, which has been really exciting. But, um, I joined WBA in September.

Speaker B [00:37:05]: Yeah. Do you have a preferred platform that you work on?

Speaker C [00:37:09]: I do mostly squarespace.

Speaker D [00:37:11]: That's my favorite.

Speaker B [00:37:12]: Very cool. Thanks for sharing. Sarah G. Will go on to you. Yeah.

Speaker D [00:37:18]: Hi, I'm Sarah Guo, and as you heard Erika say, I also answered to Sarah G. I live in the Seattle area and I'm a copywriter now. So I no longer build websites. But when I did, my platforms were squarespace and kajabi. I was never a WordPress person. It didn't work for my brain. And I write copy for launches, mainly sales pages, emails, social, and also for websites for coaches, course creators, and service providers. And I love working with other web designers to come in with copy for them to use with their clients because I know how horrible it is to build a website for someone and they've given you copy, that's completely unbuildable.

Speaker D [00:38:07]: And I have been in the WDA for, I think, nine months now. So exciting.

Speaker B [00:38:15]: Nine months? That's crazy. It feels like way longer. And also how already I know Sarah is actually in our next level mastermind, which is a little bit different from the regular WDA container. So, yeah, that's just a little bit different. All right, thanks, Sarah. Caitlin, you're up.

Speaker A [00:38:38]: Yeah.

Speaker E [00:38:39]: Hi, everyone. My name is Caitlin Munger. I'm a small business owner and designer for my business compute designs, which I started in 2020. So I provide wix websites as a Wix certified partner. I also do graphic and editorial design services for small businesses, and I joined the WDA in June this past year.

Speaker B [00:39:03]: Amazing. Thank you so much. All right, we'll go on to our next question. So, Ivy, we'll start with you. What was your web design business like before coming to work with us? Tell us a little bit about some of the challenges that you were experiencing.

Speaker C [00:39:18]: So I think coming from the background of having self taught everything and then basically an unpaid employee doing all of this for our family business, one issue I had was just not knowing how to value what I know how to do and having no clue how to price it. Searching online will get you all kinds of places as far as what it should cost to make a website, that kind of thing. And then just starting a brand new business model from scratch, not really knowing where to start as far as the. Not just the design work, but the business structure of it and how to run it, how to market it, how to organize myself so that I'm giving people a good experience. Just really sort of feeling kind of lost. And, yeah, I think that was my main issue, was not knowing where to begin.

Speaker B [00:40:15]: And I think that is such a universal challenge, but it can feel so isolating and so lonely, and, like, I'm the only one experiencing that. Thank you for sharing. Sarah, what about you?

Speaker D [00:40:28]: Yeah, so, after coming out of corporate and getting into web design in my own business, I was looking everywhere for tactics and systems and processes, and I found myself joining program after program, and everyone would work. I would be like, okay, I'm selling more. I can ask for more money. But then I would feel like something was missing or something was off. I just. I wasn't happy. And so then I'd look for another program in another program. And at some point, you know, earlier this year, I realized that the common denominator here was me and my mindset and my mind trash, and that I needed to face that.

Speaker D [00:41:15]: It wasn't a matter of the tactics. I needed to figure out how to deal with the things that kept holding me back with, like, client communications and holding my boundaries and just all of those feelings and be able to work through them and move forward with each client. And so, yeah, that's when I found the WDA. And I was like, oh, Shannon's. Shannon's all about this. Like, I loved hearing what she was saying on the podcast about those kinds of challenges, and I really. I heard myself in there. I was like, that's me.

Speaker D [00:41:52]: That's. Yeah, that's how I was before I came in.

Speaker B [00:41:57]: Thank you for sharing that. I think that's so, like, talking about program hopping and, like, sometimes we can get in the cycle of, like, making those kinds of changes because they feel active instead of, like, doing the really hard work, which sometimes doesn't feel as active.

Speaker D [00:42:15]: That's good stuff. Exactly.

Speaker B [00:42:17]: Caitlin, what about you?

Speaker E [00:42:18]: Yeah, for me, it was really managing the number of projects that I had with my limited time. I just had my son back in January and decided to work part time instead, full time. And so I found myself not making enough money and really just being overwhelmed by the amount of time I was spending on the multitude of projects I had in my workflow. I had a lot of low paying clients that were demanding, had really tight deadlines, which stressed me out. And so I was working every possible moment that I could, often late into the night and sometimes really early mornings, leaving me with little sleep already with having a baby. So it was just piling up. And on top of that, you know, I'm self taught, too, and just started my business a few years ago. And so I didn't have a solid business strategy doing billing, marketing, keeping boundaries.

Speaker E [00:43:16]: My goal was just to get clients and do hourly work. I didn't have a game plan for growth, for scalability. So I guess I also just didn't really realize how much I didn't know until I started going through Shannon's course. But everything made sense. In fact, I often thought, wow, that is so smart. And even kind of common sense, but, like, why didn't I think about that? So you guys just really presented content that was digestible, easy to understand, and extremely effective, because in just like three or four months, my, all of the work that I was doing in the WDA just really started making a difference in my business and turned everything around for the better. So it's been amazing.

Speaker B [00:44:01]: Thank you for sharing that. That's so good. And I think it's just also so cool that, you know, you're in a very specific time of life where your time is just, I mean, it's really precious anyway, but now you have this baby and you've got to be really intentional about how you spend it. And so it's so fantastic to hear that the systems and processes were a game changer for you. Thanks for sharing that. Hey, Amy. We're excited you're here. So can we, like, double time question.

Speaker B [00:44:41]: Give you two questions.

Speaker F [00:44:43]: Yes.

Speaker B [00:44:45]: Amazing.

Speaker F [00:44:46]: Thanks for letting me come in late. I just, like, just got off my phone call. I'm a little all good for sure.

Speaker B [00:44:53]: Do you need a minute? Do you need a breather? So cool.

Speaker F [00:44:57]: I could do this.

Speaker B [00:44:58]: Amazing. Cool. Well, we're excited that you made it. So the first question I want to ask you is just for you to introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about you, about your business and how long you've been in WDA.

Speaker F [00:45:11]: Yeah. So I am a WordPress website designer and developer. I work with small businesses that are on the verge of expansion, whether that means they have, like, a new shop opening, are they adding new products, or they're just ready to just kind of level up and maybe take the next step, invest a little bit more in their business, so I like to be kind of on the cost. Not surprisingly, that's also where I'm at to. I've been doing this for about five years. I'm mostly self taught. I do have a graphic design degree from, like, years ago, but it's so old, it doesn't even apply anymore. So I basically just learned everything on my own.

Speaker F [00:45:49]: But I started with WDA. I'm just ending my second year. I'm about to go to the next level in January. I'm so excited.

Speaker B [00:45:57]: So exciting. Thank you for sharing. And then the second question is, what was your web design business like before joining WDA? What were some of the challenges you faced?

Speaker F [00:46:11]: I mean, honestly, it's kind of like, it's not dissimilar to, like, if you just threw a bunch of marbles on the floor. Like, it was, like, all over the place, you know? I'm really good at figuring things out, right? Like, if I have a question in my head, I can go. I can figure it out. And I really. I honestly do it well. It's something that I really love about myself. But the problem was, I wasn't sure if I was asking the right questions, and so I felt myself constantly, like, being pulled in a bunch of different directions. Should I try this? Should I try this? Just kind of, like, throwing things at the wall and seeing what would stick.

Speaker F [00:46:44]: And when I got into the course, it was like, it was like being in the middle of an intersection and seeing, like, eight different ways to go and somebody going, no, that's the way. This is the spot. And even though they all can probably lead to the same place, this was the way that resonated most with me in a way that I could relate to. And, like, I instantaneously, like, when I had the interview with Shannon, I was like, I totally. I can relate. I came in so late, Caitlin. But, like, what you were saying, you're like, I just like, I got it. You know, I clicked.

Speaker F [00:47:20]: I understood what you were saying, and I had the confidence that if I stuck to it, then it would give back to me. And if, boy, did it ever.

Speaker E [00:47:33]: It really did.

Speaker F [00:47:35]: I would say within the first couple of, I was so nervous because I had no money. What am I doing? Like, I told my husband, I'm like, I really want to do this thing, but. And he's just like, okay, like, I'm going to trust you, you know? But it was, it was huge for me. And I would say within the first couple of months, once I figured out my package matrix and I got that out there, and I got over that. The mindset thing about asking for more money, it was just like Clint, and then all of a sudden, it's like I had all my marbles back in my deck or in my head, maybe.

Speaker A [00:48:13]: Yeah.

Speaker F [00:48:14]: It's been incredible journey, really, so far.

Speaker B [00:48:18]: Thank you for sharing that. Oh, my gosh. I love the highway analogy because you're right. There are so many pathways that will lead to a similar destination, but it's so helpful sometimes to just have a roadmap and some very clear directions and signs and, like, stops for the bathroom, you know? So good. Thank you.

Speaker F [00:48:39]: Yeah.

Speaker B [00:48:40]: All right, next question. We'll start with Ivy. What made you decide to join us in WDA?

Speaker C [00:48:47]: So I first found out about it because I was literally googling podcasts for web designers. And so I ran across Shannon's podcast and listened through, I don't know, lots of episodes, just kind of binge listened for, like, I don't know, a couple weeks or something. And so then I was, like, looking into the actual program and the website and everything. And I think what made the difference is, like, with our family business, we have used some kind of mentorship programs sort of comparable to this in our industry. And there's two things that I noticed that were the same between the one that we have stuck with and WDA, and those were, number one, it's being run by real people. Like, not say this politely, like, detached, guru kind of people who are not in the industry anymore, who are just not, I don't know, not living any kind of a normal life. And that's sort of an intangible, but just, you guys are normal people, and it's great. And then the second is that it's an actual community.

Speaker C [00:50:01]: It's not just a course you buy and you go through, but there's feedback from Shannon and Erica, but also from other people in the group. Like, I have benefited so much just from either just, like, scrolling through and reading other people's questions or asking my own and just getting feedback and support. And I think those things together had just made it really stand out from some other things that I've looked into. And so, yeah, it wasn't once I kind of saw that that was the tone of the program and how it was done, it didn't take very long to decide to jump in.

Speaker B [00:50:41]: That's so good. And I could go on forever. About our community, I will just say this. It is the best place on the Internet. It truly is. It's the best group of people. They're so generous and so kind and so giving a. So, thank you for bringing that up.

Speaker B [00:50:58]: That's so fantastic. Sarah, what about you?

Speaker D [00:51:01]: Yeah. So, I was thinking about this, and I jotted down three things, and a couple of these are similar to Ivy's. One was the podcast. I'm curious how many people in the audience today are binge listeners of the podcast. So I haven't missed a single one. That was very compelling. Again, like Ivy was saying, shannon is just so real and so open and honest and vulnerable, and I really appreciate that, and that appeals to me. And then the other two are related.

Speaker D [00:51:36]: One is friends. I have so many friends already that were in WDA. I knew people from other groups, and I was, like, having some coffee chats and discovering, like, every single person I was having a coffee chat with was in WDA and was like, aren't you in there already? Well, I should be, shouldn't I? So that reason, and then also on the friends line is Laura Comarch, who's been part of this community since the beginning, is a close friend of mine, and she has been telling me for years how amazing Shannon is and how the group in the community, she said, it feels like you're wrapped in a warm hug. And we've been in other programs together where it felt kind of unsafe to be vulnerable and to share in the group setting. And so I was craving that, and because I really like to just be an open book and to share, and I didn't want to be in a group where I felt like someone was gonna shoot me down if I share something, you know, it just feels very positive. And, yeah, the whole warm hug thing was a major player. I knew what it was gonna be like on the inside. It was just a matter of, okay, now it's finally time to join.

Speaker B [00:52:47]: A warm hug is such a good analogy for what it feels. That is what it feels like. Thanks for sharing, Sarah. Caitlin, what about you? What made you decide to join WDA?

Speaker E [00:53:00]: Yeah, I definitely want to echo what IBM Sarah said, you know? Right on. I think, for me, whenever I started doing research on the WDA, I watched a student panel video just like this one. So it's kind of cool to be here. I'm like, oh, I wouldn't have done these people doing these videos, but that's awesome. But, you know, I asked Shannon a lot of questions, watched her video explaining the program, and just everything resonated with me. Like, I felt a connection. I felt, you know, Shannon says in our strategy calls, there's not a stupid question. And I felt safe to ask questions and submit questions and it does feel like a safe community, but, and so, like, I felt that, you know, because Shannon addressed those issues, it just felt like she understood me and my business, which was a big deal for me.

Speaker E [00:53:54]: And that safety did already start, you know, from those early communications. And Shannon had a process and approach that would give me the solution and the change that I needed so desperately, you know, because my business wasn't sustainable for me, especially being a stay at home mom, but still wanting to pursue my passion and keep building the business that I built. So, frankly, I needed to work less and make more money. And I also struggled with that imposter syndrome. As a self taught designer, I didn't want to raise my prices. I didn't like, see or understand the value that I was bringing to the table and I needed to work through that mine trash that we call in the WDAeh. I wanted to learn a way to keep my business still be there for my son and keep my sanity at the same time. WDA has really delivered.

Speaker E [00:54:54]: It's provided me business strategy, incredibly helpful resources. The scripts have been amazing. It's been super helpful. And then just giving me a plan to help me reach both my professional and personal goals.

Speaker B [00:55:09]: That's amazing. Thank you for sharing all that. I just wanted to say, like, you know, the safety has been echoed a couple of times and that is something that's really important to us. You know, we've done outside trainings to ensure that we're up on, you know, trauma informed practices and things like that, and creating a safe space so that people do feel safe coming in and can be themselves and can present their whole scenario, whatever it might be, whether they have questions or they have things going on in their family life, and they're like, I need to build a business. With these constraints. We can approach that in a way that is kind and safe and compassionate and use our processes to support whatever it is that's happening in the way that we're able to so that it feels like a place that people can go to to get support. That's really, that's really the major goal. Thanks for bringing that out.

Speaker B [00:56:13]: Amy, what about you?

Speaker F [00:56:14]: I was trying to remember this morning how I came across you, but I think it was because I was in a, I was in a different program for like vas or something. And I think you were like a guest something. I don't know, I think it was something like that. But I was in this other program and I, I think the thing that appealed to me so much about one of the things was that I had to apply. It wasn't just like, I'm trying to just get all these people in and like, make all this money, you know, and it was like she was selective and I really appreciated that. So it felt like a curated group of people. And if I was a part of that, then I felt confident that the other people in the group were also either on my same path, were similar and that I felt like I could probably get a lot from that. And then obviously what everybody else has already said, its hard to go last, but its true.

Speaker F [00:57:11]: And I think for me, and I didnt know this on the outset, but I think one of the things that I have loved most about the community, we talk a lot about the community. There's no sense of what's mine is mine. You do, you. It's about like, how can we help lift everybody up? And that part I love because I was always, you know, other people talk about things that they're doing.

Speaker B [00:57:37]: I'm just like, oh, my God, I.

Speaker F [00:57:38]: Never thought about doing that in my own business. That's so smart. And there's none of this, like, well, you can't do that. I'm doing that. You know, it's just we all have our own styles about how we interact with people and the kind of product that we put out and the kind of experience that we give to our clients. And so there's none of that, like, you know, yeah, it's just collaborative, I guess, is the best thing that I can say about it. And, yeah, the support, the community, the safe space, all of that. All of that, 100%.

Speaker B [00:58:05]: That's so good. Thank you. I also want to touch on talking about the application. It truly is, you know, it is not a, just like a marketing gimmick to say that it's an application and to, like, bring people in or whatever.

Speaker E [00:58:20]: There.

Speaker B [00:58:21]: It truly is curated. And I think that that goes a long way into creating this community that is collaborative and not so much concerned with competition with each other. And it's just creating this really unique dynamic that is just really, really special. All right, we're going to go backwards and let Amy go first so she doesn't have to go last. Amy, what are you most proud of creating during your time with us so far?

Speaker F [00:58:51]: Oh, I think it's just a sustainable business. I mean, it's kind of a general concept, but really, I was so all over the place before. I was like, there's no way I can keep this up. I felt like I was hustling all the time, second guessing everything, not knowing how to interact with clients, not knowing if what I was putting out there was the right thing and just moving forward through the process. I've built this thing that I can see lasting for a really long time. And for the first time since I started, which was about. I guess it was about five years ago, I started this, but I've only been in WDA for two. But for the first time in the last five years, just the last.

Speaker F [00:59:32]: Like, I just had a meeting with Shannon a couple weeks ago about going up to next level, and I was just like, I'm so, like, burnout. I'm tired of, like, running around, and I had a big personal year and all this stuff, and I was just like, I just. And she's like, I think you should go up to the next level. You can just relax for the rest of the year and just, like, do what you've been doing and just having that, the confidence of knowing that I can do that, that I can just kind of sit back and just kind of stay in motion doing what I've been doing, and that when next level comes around, or if you're new to the course and you start the course, that you can just have confidence that all of that's just gonna. It's just gonna follow it.

Speaker D [01:00:14]: Just. That's it.

Speaker F [01:00:16]: A sustainable business. I'm so thankful.

Speaker B [01:00:19]: That's so incredible. Congratulations. Caitlin, what about you?

Speaker A [01:00:24]: Yeah.

Speaker E [01:00:25]: There are so many things from things that I'm really proud of. First, being, like, the self discovery. I wasn't expecting that. I've built a lot of self confidence through the process of building my business and creating a sustainable business. Second would be the business transformation itself. I gained a direction and focus, you know, going bEyond, oh, I like making websites. Let me try to find people to pay for it. You know, I was able to, like, harness my passion and put it into a practical and tangible experience for my clients.

Speaker E [01:01:06]: I was able to and have been able to implement a process and structure for marketing outreach, which I never had before. I was using upwork, you know, which steals a lot of money with the fees, and just, you know, trying to pull people off of upwork, you know, it's just, it's not easy. So I wanted to be able to do that myself, building out my package matrix, doing loom videos to communicate value when I'm pitching my packages to potential clients. And just, like, the consultation process, it just elevated what I wasn't able to do before or didn't know how to do before.

Speaker B [01:01:50]: So those are a few things, some major wins. That's amazing. Sarah, would you like to go next?

Speaker D [01:01:58]: Sure. Yeah. Like Caitlin, there's so many things, it's hard to pick. But I narrowed it down to, I'm most proud of creating a marketing strategy, a new marketing strategy, and outreach mentality. You know, years and years of being like, oh, I gotta be on all the social media, blah, blah, and then coming in and having Shannon teach different ways to do this. And also by example, because I see her leveraging her relationships and wasn't on social media that much. I'm like, well, look, it actually does work. And having the scripts available to me, just reframing, I'm proud of how I've reframed my thoughts around that, and it feels very doable and it feels very achievable.

Speaker D [01:02:48]: And realizing that I can, my network is actually gigantic, and I have 20 years experience as a UX architect in corporate, plus the seven years of building this business. I know a lot of people. I was looking at LinkedIn and seeing how many hundreds of people I'm connected with, and then it's just a matter of reaching out. And then when I don't know what to say, I go into the scripts and I find something to say, or I ask in the group, or I compose my own thoughts. And then seeing that work, I was kind of amazed when the first time it worked, which was really, really close to when I joined, within the first three months, I reached out to a contact I had made on LinkedIn the previous year and used the script that was like, do you know anybody that you could refer me to? And she's like, I don't know anybody right now, but I can blast you to my email list. I'm like, okay, sure, sounds good. So she did, and a few weeks later, I was $6,500 richer because there was a guy on her list that saw me, and it was like a perfect fit for what he needed. And I would not, I don't think I ever would have reached out to her and asked anything like that if I hadn't been in the program and seemed like, oh, it's just as simple as that.

Speaker D [01:04:05]: And it feels comfy, and it feels good. And also, while Caitlin was talking, I thought of another thing. I'm also really proud of my Patrick and my understanding of how to use proposals, the layered messaging inside of her proposal to set boundaries and to offset future conversations where they ask for more. I learn more and more every day how much value there is in there. And it takes a while, it takes a minute to understand the Patrick, but once you get an place, you can see what a powerful asset it is. And I'm, you know, not that my Patrick is ever fully finished. It's different all the time, but I understand how it works and it's such a powerful tool. So I'm really proud of creating that as well.

Speaker B [01:04:53]: Thank you for sharing. Those are so good. Just to, like, give everybody some context, our package tech, not technique, our Yden process, I guess, is called a package matrix. But whenever we're talking, a lot of times it gets all mixed up and our tongues don't work the way that it's supposed to. And so everybody calls it Patrick Matrix, which then just got shortened into Patrick and he got turned into this mascot. And it's like a whole thing. And so when we're referring to our patricks, we are talking about our package matrix, which is our proposals, essentially. So thanks for sharing that, Sarah.

Speaker B [01:05:36]: Those are some amazing wins. Ivy, what about you?

Speaker C [01:05:40]: I think the top two would be having a better understanding of what I actually bring to the table to serve clients with because I think beforehand in my head, it was like, I'm going to build you a website, but there's so much more of my experience and my knowledge and just working with me in the way I actually serve them. And I didn't realize what value that put underneath the actual upside itself and then kind of tied to that is having a structure and a process just kind of like Amy was talking about that guidance and being able to have those structures in place so that I know that I'm giving clients a good experience and the bases are covered and I'm not just trying to, like, wing it and wildly guess as to what I need to do next and timelines and all this kind of stuff, but that just helps me. The organization aspect was really huge. So having all of that kind of laid out just makes me feel so much more confident. And I know what I'm going to do next with the client, which makes them feel more comfortable because they know what to expect. So, yeah, really proud of having that now.

Speaker B [01:06:59]: That's amazing. Definitely something to be proud of. So we are down to our final question. And so what I would like to do is I'm just going to ask it. We'll start with amy. We'll work our way backwards just like we just did. And then just one right after the other. You don't have to wait on me to, like, call on you or whatever.

Speaker B [01:07:18]: So as our final question, what would you say to someone who's on the fence about joining us in WDA?

Speaker E [01:07:25]: Do it.

Speaker F [01:07:26]: I mean, really, honestly, you, I was so on the fence for so long, and when I finally just did it and I started it, I was like, oh yeah, it's a good decision.

Speaker E [01:07:37]: Yeah.

Speaker F [01:07:39]: I think no matter what you think you're getting into, there is so much more value that's out there and available to you that within the first couple of weeks, youll see right away what youre in for and how much its going to transform not only your business, but your life and your mentality, just who you are, how you do yourself, how you do your clients, how you do your business, and how you interact really with the world.

Speaker B [01:08:07]: Its beautiful.

Speaker E [01:08:09]: Yeah, ill do it. Just do it. Cue Nike commercial. The value, just like Amy said, it's worth every penny. Even more. Invest in yourself. Invest in your business. We have to make that shift to the investment mindset that will help you start or grow your business.

Speaker E [01:08:29]: So when you join, you know, put the work in and you'll see that transformation that you're looking for become reality. Because truly, the WDA provides a way to take your passion, your skills, and build a business that allows you to turn your dream into reality. And it's just, it's amazing. You work less, get paid more, you work with clients that you love, you keep professional and personal boundaries, and you get to enjoy every part of your business. Sounded good to me. I joined, so if that sounds good to you, I say do it.

Speaker B [01:09:05]: Go for it.

Speaker D [01:09:05]: Yeah, I think people are generally on the fence over a couple things, and that would be, first one would be money. So if money is one of the things that you're on the fence over, I'll say for myself, I made my investment back within the first three months, and, you know, we can't guarantee how quickly you'll make yours back. You never know. But I have a hard time believing you won't make it back very quickly because you have the curriculum, you have the encouragement. When you have those burn it down days, you have partnerships, people refer stuff to each other. Someone will be like, I can't take this on. Does somebody else available? There's just so much opportunity. You have the scripts, you just do the things.

Speaker D [01:09:57]: The other thing that I think sometimes holds people back is vibes, the feeling of the group. And we've talked about already in here, it's safe, it's trauma informed of. No matter which way you want to show up and consume and participate, you're covered. Like if you are a lurker and you just want to chill and read the people's messages, or you never get on Facebook and you're just learning from the call replays, there's so many different ways to take it in. But in the end, even if you came in and I'd find this hard to believe, but you made zero money, you're going to walk away with friendships and connections that are going to pay off in so many ways down the road. Obviously, friendships all pay off immediately, but the things you do now, they say pay off next quarter. There's so many great connections in here, and most of my business, I feel like, comes from referrals, and probably a lot of you do, too, and that's referrals because of friends and connections I've made in groups like this. So there's just so many wonderful benefits that come from it.

Speaker D [01:11:09]: It's worth taking a chance and taking a chance on yourself and stepping inside.

Speaker C [01:11:16]: I would say, be really, really honest with yourself about where you are right now and where you want to be in a year or so. It's kind of like how when we're talking to clients, they might be able to put together a website that might be able to do what they needed to do, but they're going to go through a ridiculous amount of struggle and trial and error and stress and time taken away from the things that are more important. And that's no different for us. We can invest instead and fast track so many things that we don't have to just learn the hard way. And that's been a huge benefit for me because I might have been able to, to work out some of the things that I have learned in WDA, but I probably wouldn't have learned them quite as effectively and definitely not as quickly. So having the educational aspect of it and the community support just kind of launches you ahead. And so if your goals are to really grow in your business or streamline your business or just get it off the ground to start with, I mean, this is easily the best investment I have made in anything business wise. So again, like Amy said, just do it.

Speaker E [01:12:29]: Wow.

Speaker B [01:12:30]: I don't even know how to follow any of that up. Thank you all so much. We are so grateful that you're part.

Speaker A [01:12:37]: Of our community and that you were.

Speaker B [01:12:38]: Willing to spend a little bit of time with us today to share about your experience with WDA and the fam and, and all the things. So, on behalf of WDA, thank you so much.