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Web Designer Academy Strategy Call Replay – Staying Out of Your Clients’ Wallets

Today I'm taking you behind the scenes of one of our Web Designer Academy Live Strategy Calls.

If you've ever wanted an inside look at what it really looks like to have support on your journey with the things that come up along the way… today's podcast episode is for you!

We have hundreds of hours of replays of Web Designer Academy Live Strategy Calls because we record everything we do. We put all of that in our private student podcast so that when people come to work with us, they don't necessarily have to attend everything live (even thought most people do)!

There are close to 200 episodes of the private student podcast available to Web Designer Academy students… and since you love podcasts, since you're listening to this one…I thought it might be really fun to give our Profitable Web Designer podcast listeners a behind-the-scenes look at our private student podcast and what happens on our Live Strategy calls.

This week we're coaching a Web Designer Academy student on staying out of her clients' wallets, and how to follow up with someone who wasn't an *official* consultation, but you want to make an offer to help them.

I hope you enjoy this behind the scenes sneak peek of a Live Strategy Call and get a lot out of it on how to take control of your business!

xoxo – Shannon

Episode Transcript

Shannon Mattern (00:00:03) - Welcome to the Profitable Web Designer, a podcast for web designers who want to work less and make more money. I'm your host, Shannon Mattern, founder of the Web Designer Academy, where we've helped hundreds of web designers stop under charging, over working and create profitable, sustainable web design businesses. Hey there. Welcome back to the Profitable Web Designer Podcast. If the audio this week sounds a little bit weird on this intro, that is because I am recording this from my phone at our next level retreat for year two and beyond, a web designer academy students, and it was just a such a powerful, transformational, connected two days so far. We have a whole nother day tomorrow that when I was thinking about what I wanted to share with you this week on the podcast, I wanted to just really give you an inside look at what it really looks like to have support on your journey with the things that come up along the way. And so one of the ideas I had is, you know, we have hundreds of hours of replays of Web Designer Academy live strategy calls.

Shannon Mattern (00:01:25) - We record everything we do. We put all of that in our private student podcast so that when people come to work with us, they don't necessarily have to attend everything live, even though they don't have to. Most people do, but those that can't like to listen to the private student podcast. And so we record everything and we make all of those back episodes. I guess you could call them available in that podcast feed. So we have over 150 episodes by now, if not close to 200. I don't number them. I should, but I thought what it might be really fun to do for our profitable web design or podcast listeners is pull out some of those topics that we get asked about a lot inside of the Web Designer Academy. It always comes up in like a totally different way. It's but it's like the same question, but with a unique nuance. And I thought I would share some of those with you all over the next couple of weeks, so that you can see what that looks like to participate in a live strategy, call and get that support and get your questions answered, while at the same time getting to hear coaching on lots of different topics.

Shannon Mattern (00:02:51) - So this week, what I have for you is conversations about staying out of your clients wallets. We talk about this all the time, not to make assumptions about what your clients can and can't afford. And this week's question is so good. We dive really, really deep into staying out of your clients wallets, so I cannot wait for you to listen to this week's episode. Going behind the scenes of a Web Designer Academy Live strategy call. Hello everyone. Welcome to our Web Designer Academy Live strategy call for Tuesday, December 20th. Welcome, welcome. We're getting everybody in here and then we will kick off. Awesome. So good to see some familiar faces, some new faces. We will get going here in just a second. So everyone's jumping in. So as you guys know we kick off every single call with wins. So we want to hear your wins. This is our last call of 2022. So I would love to hear like what are you most proud of creating in 2022. We have some newbies.

Shannon Mattern (00:04:20) - You guys can hang back. That's cool. Or you can share your wins. I want to welcome Lynette. Lynette just joined in our most recent enrollment. Margaux. Margaux is new. New to the program as well. So welcome. We have a lot of newbies that were welcoming. So you guys are in. You are in the room. We're so thrilled that you're here, Kim. Kim Stone just joined during this enrollment, so. Yeah, we are thrilled to have you have you all here. And so the way that this call works, for those of you who are new and haven't had your orientation yet. We kick off every call with wins and wins or actions that you have taken that you are proud of. Wins can also be results that you have created as a result of your actions. And so we kick off every call celebrating wins. And I love to remind. Everybody like, let's use wins to like, inspire us as to like what's possible. We have people who have been in the program who are about to graduate sharing their big wins.

Shannon Mattern (00:05:44) - We have people who are about to renew. We have people who've been in the program for six months, nine months, 12 months. So wins are like just a few steps ahead of wherever you are. So whenever people are sharing wins, like, that's like, this is what's possible for you. So we kick off with wins and then we go through our pre-submitted questions and we send out an email every single week saying, hey, it's time to submit your questions for the live strategy call. This is basically like our mind trash cleanup call, but also supporting you with some like tricky client situations and just things that you need to discuss and you submit those for review. We go through all of those, and then if there's time at the end, we'll take questions from the chat. So if you have a question you want to make sure you get answered definitely pre submit that. So we share wins Erica shares announcements. And then we get into our call format. So welcome to our new people. Kayla said it is mandatory to share the name of your cat in the chat.

Shannon Mattern (00:06:53) - And I read the chat for the replay because all the replays go in the private Student podcast. So Caitlin just finished a consult and pushed the high end package at ten K and sent off the proposal before this call, trying not to let her decision of working with me or not stress me out. Caitlin, that is a huge shift for you to anchor high in that high end package. So that is a huge win that you anchored high. And I want you to like shift how you're thinking about that instead of pushed the high end package. I anchored high, I anchored high I held her high. It's all good. Sheila is also new. Sheila just joined the call. So welcome, Sheila. And also this call is like camera optional, so don't ever feel like you have to have your camera on. But I think as people get more comfortable like feel free to have your camera on, you do not have to be camera ready for this call ever. Like so. The safe space. So everyone is in the chat sharing their wins for 2022.

Shannon Mattern (00:07:59) - Since this is our last call of 2022, Erica will share the schedule so that I don't mess up the dates. So when we do announcements. Caitlin said WDA has helped me go from charging 1500 in January for the same websites. I've now charged five people $5,000 for boom! Yes. Amazing. So sharing the wins in 2022. Kayla selling a premium package. That's awesome. That's a big win. Let's see Brenda wrapping up another volunteer website project for a nonprofit. Amazing. That must feel really good to use your skills in that way. Caitlin said it would be nice to end my year with the first 10-K sale. You've got the skills, you know the process, you know the follow up. You anchored high. You got this. If we have some mind trash cleanup we need to do before we send you off, we got you. Oh, steady like Stegosaurus. Nice. Fostering her. Awesome. That's the cat's name for the replay listeners. Let's see. Lee said, I haven't been camera ready in years.

Shannon Mattern (00:09:17) - Awesome. Gosh, all of our newbies are here. Diana is new to the WDA. Diana, welcome. So let's see. All right, come on, guys, your 2022 wins. What are you most proud of? Pop those in the chat. That's the price of admission for this call is your wins. And then we'll dive into questions. So while you guys are getting that together and putting it in the chat, Karen finally put herself out there on Facebook and reached out to my ideal client who said they would love to work with me. That is freaking huge, Karen. That is awesome. That's huge for you. I love that Judy met her financial goals for 2022. Rachel said optimism is her win. Yes, Rachel, I know you've you've had some stuff this year. Brittany most proud of comfortably charging two times more than I used to. Let's see. Diana started going after what I want for work, not just what I was dealt. Oh, you are in the right room, Diana.

Shannon Mattern (00:10:32) - Like, way to kick off your first comment in the live strategy call. Like so bold. Love it. Oh, man. Kate is finally feeling like a legit web designer without hesitation. Sold to VIP packages. Way too much more to list. That's such a huge win. I'm so like, it's amazing to see your mindset shift, Jana. Mind conquering, staying out of wallets, getting my processes refined, charging more tons. Becky Bucks a couple mid-level project prices, which is more than I've ever charged for a website, gaining confidence and talking to clients and holding boundaries. Glen Nett joining Web Designer Academy and Duct tape marketing. Those were bold moves for you this year. Creating my signature framework, which will change as a result of Web Designer Academy. It may or may not. How you present your packages might change, but what you actually deliver may not change. So we're going to help you take our strategies and put them around your what your genius is and get that price way, way, way high and make you some money.

WDA Student (00:11:45) - Yes.

Shannon Mattern (00:11:47) - Amazing. So as you guys think of more wins, definitely share those. Erica, what announcements do we have?

Erica Nash (00:11:55) - Just that we're about to go on break. So we are going to be officially offline. The entire team will be offline from the 23rd through the 3rd of January, and we will be back on the fourth for that's the Wednesday. That's the first Wednesday in January. We will host the Next Level mastermind call. So if you're in next level then that will be available to you. And then we will kick off a regular week that following Monday. And any work reviews that are turned in will be done that following week. So anything you're welcome to still interact in the Facebook group, still submit, still do all of that kind of stuff. Feel free to support each other. We won't necessarily be in there. I mean, I'm sure we'll probably both be in there on occasion.

Shannon Mattern (00:12:49) - Official party line is that we are unavailable.

Erica Nash (00:12:52) - Yeah, but you know, you can still submit work for review.

Erica Nash (00:12:56) - You just won't get it till we get back. So yeah, that's the big thing.

Shannon Mattern (00:13:00) - Yeah. So everything will be open. We're not closing the doors. If you guys have questions in the Facebook group, go ahead and post in there. And we invite you also to like take time off. We try to model in our company having boundaries, taking downtime, not working over holidays and taking vacations and setting those boundaries to model the boundaries we want you guys to set with your clients. And so that's why we're like, hey, we're not going to close the doors. But like we also are like taking that time off. Yeah. So have an amazing break we all. Deserve it. And for those of you who are just joining us, it's kind of the perfect time to just go through curriculum, learn the lessons, like just absorb things. And then in the new year, get ready to like submit stuff for review or submit stuff for review and stack it up for us when we get back.

Shannon Mattern (00:13:57) - We're cool with that too. Like we got you however you want to work.

Erica Nash (00:14:02) - Today we only have two pre-submitted questions. So if you have questions that you want to get in before we go, pop those in the chat. First one is from Melissa. She says, I have a client who's a friend who has resurfaced. I designed her Coming Soon page last year in April of 2021. She's an interior designer with loads of images. She initially sent me the photos about six months ago, and asked me to go through them and choose some good ones, and before and after photos. The old me would have done it thanks to Shannon. I pushed back and said no, she needs to organize them and send them back to me. Well, last week I received seven folders of images. No call or texting letting me know they were coming. Before I resume the project, I need to have the hard money conversation. My proposal was half of what my middle package is. I didn't have packages back then.

Erica Nash (00:14:53) - Of course, I've also been maintaining her site, which isn't difficult since it's only a coming soon page. I need some assistance in how to word the email. I've tried writing it several times. I had this problem with another client friend and when I told her my prices have increased, she said don't gouge me. I'm worried of how to present it with this client since it didn't go so well last time.

Shannon Mattern (00:15:15) - Uh, okay. So. I'm so glad you came to us with this, because I understand it's really important to you to preserve these friendships, but I also want you to think about how your friends are treating you right now. And. This is kind of where I'm like, you're worried about preserving a relationship, but they don't seem to be not to say that like. Does that make sense to like what I'm saying? It's like they're very demanding of you and expecting you to do certain things. And here's a folder of seven images or seven folders of images. And Melissa, just expect you to do this.

Shannon Mattern (00:16:01) - And the vibe I'm getting from you is like, I don't want to rock the boat, but like, they don't seem to have any problem just telling you what it is. So I'm curious, like, and then your friend said, well, don't gouge me. Like, why do they get to dictate how this goes? That's a rhetorical question.

WDA Student (00:16:23) - Right?

Shannon Mattern (00:16:23) - You don't have to answer that.

WDA Student (00:16:25) - No, no. Well, I know it has to do with boundaries. And really, this is you've been helping me tremendously with doing that. And unfortunately, I have so many. I have four projects I'm trying to wrap up all with friends. I don't want to take friends as clients anymore. It's been nothing but hell over the last couple of years. Yeah, so that's my thing to do. But to this woman, I mean, I know she has the money and it seems like they do, and they just don't value me, which is the most frustrating thing about you.

Shannon Mattern (00:16:59) - Tell them what your value is.

Shannon Mattern (00:17:01) - So I think that the piece that's been missing because you started these projects before. Really coming into this program and really, truly like learning, like Judy said, to value yourself. We haven't established with these people yet your value. Like we can't let other people determine our value. It's going to be all over the place. And so we get to determine what our value is and tell people how it's going to go and give them the choice on whether or not they want to to continue. So you already recognize it's going to be difficult for you to communicate with this person about money because, you know, it's a friend and all of that. So what I want you to think about is like, you can decide that. Like, here's how I'm going to wrap up the project, right? So let's think about this person who sent you seven folders of pictures. What needs done to complete this project?

WDA Student (00:18:04) - Well, pretty much the whole site, because it's only has a comingsoon page. And you know, that was from April 2021.

WDA Student (00:18:11) - So I've kind of been chasing her. I guess what I want to know is, do I come in with my new packages and say, look, I used to charge this two years ago, but now this is what I charge. So can we reach a happy medium? I don't know how to take care of that part, because that's what.

Shannon Mattern (00:18:29) - I don't think that's quite the way to approach it, but I think we can get there in a different way. Okay. So based on what did you initially agree on at the price that she paid you?

WDA Student (00:18:43) - So the initial agreement was 3250 for a regular five page website.

Shannon Mattern (00:18:50) - Five page website. Okay.

WDA Student (00:18:51) - Yeah. And that's.

WDA Student (00:18:52) - And.

Shannon Mattern (00:18:54) - Okay. Go ahead.

WDA Student (00:18:55) - And you know, it's not as deep because I didn't I've learned a lot as well. Yeah. No that's.

Shannon Mattern (00:19:01) - Cool.

WDA Student (00:19:01) - So now it's I do more in the package. So that's what I was trying to show her. Yeah I didn't have the video walkthrough. I don't even know if she wants me to maintain it.

WDA Student (00:19:10) - So I was going to show her my maintenance package and tell her I've been maintaining her site. Not that it's a lot of maintaining, obviously, but still taking care of it, updating the plug ins and I don't know.

Shannon Mattern (00:19:23) - So here's what I recommend. Instead of trying to sell like it feels like in your mind, you're like, now that my packages are more, I need to do that more for her and get her to pay me for it. You don't have to. You agreed on a five page website for 3251 of those pages is a coming soon page. What are the other four pages?

WDA Student (00:19:48) - Well, like services about contact us. Yeah. She. Yeah. About about.

Shannon Mattern (00:19:54) - Contact and what else.

WDA Student (00:19:56) - Before.

WDA Student (00:19:57) - And after page. That's five.

Shannon Mattern (00:20:00) - Five. That's it. So what do you want these five pages to be for your initial 30, 250.

WDA Student (00:20:07) - You mean cost wise or what.

Shannon Mattern (00:20:09) - No I'm saying here's what I'm getting at. You're going to give her a choice. You're going to set you're going to build the initial five page website that you agreed upon back in April for the 30 to 50 bare minimum, or are you going to say, hey, since we talked about this, I have these new packages with all of this stuff.

Shannon Mattern (00:20:32) - Do you want to upgrade to this or I'm going to complete this basic 3250 site for you. Which would you like to move forward with?

WDA Student (00:20:44) - Okay.

Shannon Mattern (00:20:45) - And by when do you want to be done with the basic 3250 site? You have the pictures now, right? You have everything you need to do it.

WDA Student (00:20:55) - Yes, I do. And here's another thing I have for clients that want. So what I did also is another thing I'm going to put in the group. But she came back and said, I said, when do you want to do this? Because I'm only taking one client per month and we're going to bring it out in 2 to 4 weeks, which I've never done that. So I'm trying to schedule them all. This woman has been two years, so I feel like I want to push her till March and finish the other ones first. So again.

WDA Student (00:21:22) - To do that.

WDA Student (00:21:23) - Right. And that's what I've learned. It's like, no, I'm going to tell you now since you've waited, this is where you fit in on my schedule.

WDA Student (00:21:30) - I mean, I'm.

WDA Student (00:21:31) - Probably trying to be more.

WDA Student (00:21:33) - Forthright and it's not easy for me. And I feel.

WDA Student (00:21:35) - Really no say that I want.

Shannon Mattern (00:21:37) - To please don't feel embarrassed. This is like I literally have helped like, four other people with this exact same situation in the past two weeks where it's the end of the year and everybody wants their site done now that they drug their feet on all year long. So you're not the only one. This is like very normal. So. So don't feel embarrassed. What I want to help you get a handle on is how do we deliver what we agreed to deliver? Like, how do we give every single client a choice based on what works for Melissa and Melissa's life? Right. So client who sent you seven folders of pictures? Her choices are March delivery date for either the initial site that we agreed upon for 3250, which is a basic five page site with a coming soon service about contact before and after with. I'm going to invite you to limit to like three before and after.

Shannon Mattern (00:22:37) - Not her whole entire seven folders. Yes, pick three for before and after. I don't know how many photos each would be appropriate, like two Befores two after like 12 pictures.

WDA Student (00:22:52) - Okay.

Shannon Mattern (00:22:53) - Put some constraints around this. And to say, hey, since we talked last April, we have this other option with all these other things that you could do. Do you want to keep our initial agreement, or would you like to move into one of these other packages where I'll do I'll go through your seven folders. Whatever.

WDA Student (00:23:14) - Right.

Shannon Mattern (00:23:14) - Give her the choice.

WDA Student (00:23:16) - Okay. That's good.

Shannon Mattern (00:23:18) - Okay. And then tell her when it's going to. You know, I have you slated for March. Here are your options. How would you like to move forward in March? Act as if it's the news. Like. It just is like. So matter of fact that of course it would be this way. You took six months to get stuff to me. I don't just like. It's not even a conversation. It's literally like, these are the facts.

Shannon Mattern (00:23:46) - Here's what's happening. Okay. And it's not open to interpretation or discussion. Okay. So these four other are the three. Do you have three other clients or four other clients.

WDA Student (00:23:58) - I have three other ones and they've yeah they've.

WDA Student (00:24:02) - All they all.

Shannon Mattern (00:24:02) - Paid.

WDA Student (00:24:03) - They've all paid up. Half.

Shannon Mattern (00:24:06) - Yeah okay. So all of them have paid half.

WDA Student (00:24:09) - Well the one that I'm going to. So this is the other one that came back which she has just a landing page I hope I'm not taking up too much time.

WDA Student (00:24:17) - There's only.

Shannon Mattern (00:24:17) - Two questions. So okay.

WDA Student (00:24:19) - So she has.

Shannon Mattern (00:24:20) - You want to get you.

WDA Student (00:24:21) - Squared.

Shannon Mattern (00:24:22) - Away on this.

WDA Student (00:24:25) - She has just I designed basically it's a landing page for. She just came back to me last week and says, okay, now I want a real website. And we're having this conversation and I'm figuring out what she wants, blah, blah, blah. She says, I don't have any money. And I was like.

WDA Student (00:24:40) - Well, then red flag that she's.

WDA Student (00:24:43) - So I said, that's it.

WDA Student (00:24:45) - Well, I said, I put a proposal together and I don't know if I should show her my packages. This was another question. Show her my packages or put a proposal together. I've never done this where I have a landing page and then created a website from that, so I kind of don't know.

Shannon Mattern (00:24:59) - So she told you she doesn't have any money? Did she literally say, I don't have any money?

WDA Student (00:25:04) - Yes.

Shannon Mattern (00:25:05) - You do not have to give her a proposal. We have a decline template in the book.

WDA Student (00:25:11) - Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (00:25:12) - That says we're not a good fit. This is the shift for you, Melissa, is you get to decide who you work with and you can't. You don't work with clients that don't have the money to pay you.

WDA Student (00:25:27) - Well, here's the thing. She just got back from Paris for a month. She's telling me how she bought all these handbags.

Shannon Mattern (00:25:32) - It doesn't matter if she has money, Melissa. It truly doesn't matter if she has money.

Shannon Mattern (00:25:37) - You have to stay out of her wallet that way, too. Like, you know, she literally has money. She's spending it on money. Like, you're like, it doesn't make. You're like, this is what I see you doing. She has money, but she doesn't value me. It's not about you. She has money. She doesn't want to spend it on a website with you or anybody else. So you can't make her financial decisions mean anything about you as a human, and you get to decide if she tells you that she doesn't have money, you close the door and if she wants to work with you, she'll come knock on it again. And if she doesn't, she'll go away.

WDA Student (00:26:16) - Well, shouldn't. I was thinking instead of giving her a custom proposal, I would just give her my packages.

Shannon Mattern (00:26:21) - No, you give her the decline. I declined to continue this conversation any further with you. I'm serious.

WDA Student (00:26:30) - Don't know if I.

WDA Student (00:26:31) - Could do that because I already started and you.

Shannon Mattern (00:26:35) - Started. And then in the start, she told you she didn't have money. You don't continue when someone says that to you.

WDA Student (00:26:41) - And she just the end.

Shannon Mattern (00:26:42) - Of the decline email says if anything changes, I'd be happy to continue this conversation.

WDA Student (00:26:47) - Shouldn't I have said it on the call right then?

Shannon Mattern (00:26:50) - No. I mean, sometimes you don't always think of it. After careful consideration of our conversation, I do not have any packages that will meet the budget of no money. You don't have to say that that will meet your budget. If anything changes, please feel free to schedule another consultation with me. This is you taking your power back.

WDA Student (00:27:14) - Well, maybe she was bluffing. Maybe she does.

Shannon Mattern (00:27:17) - She was, but you're not.

WDA Student (00:27:21) - Oh, gosh. Okay, okay, I'll try it and see.

WDA Student (00:27:27) - So that's.

Shannon Mattern (00:27:28) - Landing page. Landing page? No money. Who's the other one? This is so good. This is helping so many other people that have these conversations. So when you are like, I'm taking up too much time, you're helping everybody here.

Shannon Mattern (00:27:41) - So who's the next one.

WDA Student (00:27:44) - Well there's Alexia who's also I'm going to get really she's my CPA and I'm kind of a friend obviously. And she I haven't started her website yet.

Shannon Mattern (00:28:00) - And she's paid.

WDA Student (00:28:01) - Half.

WDA Student (00:28:02) - She know I haven't done anything. I haven't even shown her a proposal or anything.

WDA Student (00:28:06) - Okay.

Shannon Mattern (00:28:07) - So she's just a potential client.

WDA Student (00:28:09) - Yeah. Well, no, we're I mean, we're we've already worked together. I did her branding already. That's a whole other thing I'd like to talk about later, but. So I just have to roll it with her. I guess what I'm also working with is, for the first time, this is what I have on my calendar. This is the availability I have instead of before letting them drag on like this is just I can't do it anymore. I'm just spinning my wheels.

WDA Student (00:28:35) - What I want to.

Shannon Mattern (00:28:35) - Invite you to think about is like, until they have signed a contract and given you a deposit, they are not a client. They don't have space on your calendar.

Shannon Mattern (00:28:45) - You don't have to think about when you're doing the project until they have literally signed a contract and given you money.

WDA Student (00:28:54) - Okay, okay.

Shannon Mattern (00:28:55) - And so with this person, your CPA like follow our process consultation proposal, contract deposit, deposit contract, whatever.

WDA Student (00:29:07) - Right.

Shannon Mattern (00:29:08) - And they don't get space on your calendar. You don't do work for them before any of that happens. Even if she had a branding package before. This is your process and this is how much it cost to work with me. And of course it costs money to work with me. This is what I do for a.

WDA Student (00:29:25) - A living that comes back.

Shannon Mattern (00:29:27) - I don't I'm just not like the favor for a friend person.

WDA Student (00:29:32) - Right? Not anymore.

WDA Student (00:29:34) - Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (00:29:36) - So is there anyone else that we need to.

WDA Student (00:29:38) - There's another.

WDA Student (00:29:39) - One. She's paid me half up front, and she's also a friend, but she's pretty good. But now it's just. I said I want to be done by December 15th. Oh, and then she got Covid and I did the schedule, like you said.

WDA Student (00:29:53) - And, you know, trying to get the meeting, it seems like they all go by the wayside. You know, it's like something.

Shannon Mattern (00:29:59) - Where's this project at now? What are you waiting on?

WDA Student (00:30:04) - Copy from her. It's always content, you know.

Shannon Mattern (00:30:06) - And here is the choice that you get to give her. You get to say, hey, we needed to be wrapped up by December 15th. Your choices are. I deliver the site as is to you. And we are complete. Or you get me what I need. You choose the date. Melissa, after the holidays, you get me what I need by X along with the second payment. And I will finish up, buy this and give it to you. Her choice is to get a half done product for half the money, and you close it and move on. Or to give you what you need by a certain date and you finish it. You like design choices that work for you first. Present your client with those choices, because the part that I want you to remember is the moment that they don't follow what they committed to.

Shannon Mattern (00:31:04) - You don't have to stay committed to what you committed to.

WDA Student (00:31:07) - Okay?

Shannon Mattern (00:31:08) - Like if they don't follow through, you get to change.

WDA Student (00:31:12) - Okay?

Shannon Mattern (00:31:13) - Change the rules of engagement. You don't get to change if they're meeting their deadlines, just you're not going to be the one to not follow through. But the moment they don't follow through, you don't have to move your whole life around to accommodate. You get to be like, okay, new rules of engagement. What's going to best suit me?

WDA Student (00:31:34) - Well, here's the thing I need the money. So I like that one that doesn't have any money.

Shannon Mattern (00:31:39) - They're not paying you anyway.

WDA Student (00:31:41) - Well, if.

Shannon Mattern (00:31:42) - You're not getting it now.

WDA Student (00:31:44) - Well I will.

WDA Student (00:31:46) - When I finished them I know and see. That's a whole other thing, do I? It's just such a learning curve.

WDA Student (00:31:52) - When you draw.

Shannon Mattern (00:31:52) - Lines in the sand, you compel people to take action. When you don't draw lines in the sand, they don't take action. It's actually creating more of you not getting paid by you thinking you're doing it will not get you paid.

Shannon Mattern (00:32:06) - Mm.

WDA Student (00:32:07) - Okay. Okay.

Shannon Mattern (00:32:10) - I know this is like, this is the hardest part is the boundaries. I also want you to think about like, this is in their best interest for this project to be wrapped up. And they have what they have what they want to. And you get to take the lead with these relationships and you get to state the facts of, of how it is to work with you, and you get to stay out of their wallets, whether their broker or rich. And design things to work for you. All right. And once you start closing the doors.

WDA Student (00:32:44) - I hope they start opening. I mean, again, with somebody that's not a friend.

WDA Student (00:32:48) - They.

Shannon Mattern (00:32:49) - Well, you'll create those opportunities. You will create those opportunities. But you're spending so much time in an emotional energy on people and projects that aren't paying you. We need to compel them to close or end them so that you can. Have the space to serve the next clients.

WDA Student (00:33:12) - Okay.

WDA Student (00:33:14) - Okay. Just do it.

Shannon Mattern (00:33:16) - Take it one at a time. One at a time.

WDA Student (00:33:20) - Okay. Thank you.

Shannon Mattern (00:33:22) - We have all of the scripts and everything that you need inside of the program. I know you're getting lots of lots of suggestions in the chat. You've got this.

WDA Student (00:33:32) - Thank you.

Shannon Mattern (00:33:34) - You got this one at a time, and you're going to need a pep talk in the Facebook group, probably before you send everyone. So go ahead and let us help you and then sweat. Send it and you'll be good. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, I know that was a lot. That's going to be a good one for posterity. Boundaries. Conversation.

Erica Nash (00:33:56) - Such a good conversation. So our last for.

Shannon Mattern (00:33:59) - Being vulnerable to share all of that for the class.

Erica Nash (00:34:06) - Our last question today is from Judy, and she says, I had a connection slash networking call that turned into interest in help with their website without coming in via a consult call, intake questions, magic, ten questions, etcetera. How do I backtrack to follow that process?

Shannon Mattern (00:34:24) - Do you feel like you got enough information in that conversation to.

WDA Student (00:34:31) - There's a lot going on. She has a lot going on that she wants to do. So I kind of have we talked about all these different things. But in terms of priorities, to answer your question, no, I would have some follow up, but I didn't know if I should kind of go back to my turn and get her into my normal questionnaire or customize, I guess a follow up for her.

Shannon Mattern (00:34:53) - I would just be like, hey, I have some additional questions. I'm going to send you a link to my consultation form. I know we've already discussed a lot of this, but I'm going to send you a link to this fill out. As you know, you can skip the her filling out the ten magic questions if you want, but on that consultation you go through them with her. So say I'd love to schedule a follow up. I'm going to send you a link to book a time on my calendar. I'm going to get all like, all the questions I needed and need answered to put together a proposal for you.

Shannon Mattern (00:35:28) - Okay, so yeah, because we don't need her to fill out all of those questions, but we do need you to lead her through all of those questions. And then she'll be kind of on the track of, like, proposal contract, all of those things. Anytime we have these conversations where someone's like, yeah, I want to work with you. Like, the next step is always to like, okay, great, let's get a formal consultation set up so I can like, do my spiel, prefer frame anchor. Hi. Leads you through, let you know what the next steps are because those things don't typically happen in informal conversations. Exactly. So then we need. But we can skip some of the parts of the process to get them in there.

WDA Student (00:36:11) - So you're recommending still you know, have that consultation call basically.

WDA Student (00:36:17) - Yeah. Just but you.

Shannon Mattern (00:36:18) - Don't even have to call it like a let's do a consultation. You can just be like, I'd love to have another conversation with you. The best way to get on my calendar is to go through this link to find a time, because if she's like, but I thought what we did was a consultation like.

WDA Student (00:36:35) - No, it wasn't, then.

Shannon Mattern (00:36:37) - You can just. Yeah.

WDA Student (00:36:38) - Right. Okay.

WDA Student (00:36:40) - Yeah, that's really helpful.

Shannon Mattern (00:36:41) - Congrats on creating that that relationship, that opportunity. You're welcome. Lots of good stuff in the chat. Did any questions come through in the chat Erica that I missed in the.

WDA Student (00:36:57) - I don't think.

Shannon Mattern (00:36:58) - So. Cool. I'm just going to scroll through.

Erica Nash (00:37:02) - Just some good conversation and encouragement. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (00:37:04) - So all of the chat goes in the replays, Rachel said, I said to a friend recently, by the way, this is why I charge for clients. And the value is this. Oh yeah. Gladness coming in hot with the good, valuable stuff. Oh wow, you have some really great photos. Choosing is out of scope. I'd be happy to go through and I can do that for just this amount. Let me know how you want to proceed. Awesome. You have a choice of whether to work with a friend or not. They have the same choice to work with you.

Shannon Mattern (00:37:40) - Awesome. Does anybody have any other questions that they want to have answered before our final call of 2022? What?

Erica Nash (00:37:49) - You've got one question from Sharon.

Shannon Mattern (00:37:52) - Awesome.

Erica Nash (00:37:52) - I feel a little unorganized. Should I go back through the modules and start over?

WDA Student (00:37:58) - Hmm.

Shannon Mattern (00:37:58) - Probably not. Tell me more about why are you feeling unorganized?

WDA Student (00:38:04) - I think because in my head, I'm. I'm unorganized person. So if if I don't have my ducks in a row, I feel a little out of sorts. And so if don't have my processes down yet, I feel like if I were to get a website project now, I would feel a little uneasy about it. So I'm thinking, you know, maybe I needed to go back through the process, through the modules. Did I miss something? Nope. No.

Shannon Mattern (00:38:41) - I'm going to just offer something to you. We see this a lot when it comes time to do the thing that's, like kind of scary, which is get get a client with your new package matrix is to be like, oh, but wait, I'm not ready, I feel disorganized, I might miss something, my processes aren't clear, and the safe thing for me to do is to go back and start over.

Shannon Mattern (00:39:05) - Yeah, because that is what we call passive action. It is going back. It's like you're working and you're doing stuff, but you're not doing the thing that's going to create the result that you want. So you get and this is why like Lashay is one of our students. And she coined this term like get paid to do it. Scared, get paid to do it. Feeling a little unorganized, yet knowing all of the processes are right there for you to.

WDA Student (00:39:35) - Follow.

Shannon Mattern (00:39:36) - As you create the opportunity. Like, oh, someone wants to have a consultation with me, do you have it set up for someone to book it? Maybe you don't. I'm going to go create that real quick and then send them the link like we want you to, like, not spend time in learning our strategies and going back through and like all of that stuff we want you to like, now go experience it, because that's going to bring up the real stuff that you need coached on in this. So when I say like, I feel like overwhelm is potentially a mask for I'm worried about like charging this much with a new web design client for the first time.

Shannon Mattern (00:40:23) - Does that resonate at all?

WDA Student (00:40:25) - Yeah, yeah. Pretty much yeah.

Shannon Mattern (00:40:29) - So let's not do that. Let's move on to module five. Get your next client and let us support you through the fear of taking that next action.

WDA Student (00:40:39) - Okay.

Shannon Mattern (00:40:40) - All right. Thank you. Okay.

WDA Student (00:40:42) - You're welcome.

Shannon Mattern (00:40:46) - When that's the question. Yeah. Go ahead. Oh go ahead Erica.

Erica Nash (00:40:50) - I was just going to say we had a couple of questions come through. And Lynnette has a question around if we always recommend multiple packages.

WDA Student (00:40:57) - Yes we.

Shannon Mattern (00:40:58) - Do. So when you get to module four, Glenna, you will understand our whole irresistible package matrix strategy, why we structure things the way we do, why we make offers. That way we're going to help you take your offers that you brought into the Web Designer academy and package matrix them. So it's really like one offer, but it's multiple options of that offer. So once you get there, you'll get more clarity around like all of the nuance of that strategy. And that's like in your orientation video, I was like, I cannot wait to see her package matrix because you are like.

Shannon Mattern (00:41:41) - I don't know, I just can't wait to see it. I'm so excited.

WDA Student (00:41:45) - To see it.

Shannon Mattern (00:41:46) - Awesome. So you said. Oh, you were told you should recommend one package because I'm the consultant. I know what they really need. And you are the authority. That belief will still stand with our strategy. So that is aligned with what we teach. And I think that will become more clear when you see our package matrix strategy and how and then I would say like be Kate, be like Kate when you get to that package matrix strategy, if there is something that you're like. But this does not make sense to me and this does not align with me, let's talk about it because we need to make sure that you like feel aligned with everything. Yeah. Kate's like, but wait, I don't understand or this doesn't feel right. And then we like, worked through that. So any resistance you have any of you guys to our strategies. We get to talk about that, to see if it is like, oh, maybe there is a tweak you can make to make it apply to you.

Shannon Mattern (00:42:47) - Maybe there's some mindset stuff going on there, maybe you want to try test out a different idea and all of that's cool. Love it.

WDA Student (00:42:56) - Love it.

Erica Nash (00:42:57) - From Lauren, she says. Question around confidence in presenting my maintenance packages to my client. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (00:43:04) - Let's talk about it.

WDA Student (00:43:05) - Yeah. So I have a client that I plan on.

WDA Student (00:43:09) - Sending my maintenance packages to, but I'm just like getting nervous, like, okay, it's a friend of a friend. I guess that's like the theme today. So it's a friend of a friend. So I'm just, like, nervous that I'm nervous because we had a lot of problems on the website in November. And that's kind of what spawned this advice to really focus on maintenance packages as opposed to hourly. But I'm just worried that, like, I guess my confidence was shaken in like managing websites because of what happened in November. So I'm just nervous that he's going to be like, oh, you're raising your rates and doing less work. So no, I don't know my fear.

Shannon Mattern (00:43:59) - So are you okay with him saying no?

WDA Student (00:44:02) - Yeah, I guess at the end of the day, yeah, I would be okay with that. I would just, I think I would just feel bad like mentally about it.

Shannon Mattern (00:44:13) - Yeah. Like you're making that. No mean because you said your confidence was shaken due to a situation back in November. You're making that no mean I'm not good enough.

WDA Student (00:44:22) - Yes.

WDA Student (00:44:22) - Yes. Definitely.

WDA Student (00:44:24) - Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (00:44:25) - You get to choose what you make. Someone's no mean and they can think you're not good enough. You don't have to believe them. Okay, so what are you going to choose to make someone who does not want to pay the prices you're willing to work for mean?

WDA Student (00:44:42) - Yeah, I guess it just makes me question like if he says no, like, should I? I don't know, I shouldn't change my packages because he says no. I guess there's just like this hesitation within me. Yeah. To do that.

Shannon Mattern (00:44:56) - Well, let's come back to this issue in November and kind of like work through that because I feel like it's at the core, this really doesn't have to do with him or your prices or whatever.

Shannon Mattern (00:45:06) - I think there's something here with like whatever happened in November that we get to like kind of clean up our like clean up. So let's tell me what happened.

WDA Student (00:45:18) - Basically.

WDA Student (00:45:19) - He wanted to switch the shipping plug in that we were using from like the post office to UPS. Yep. And that was like a huge it seems like it seemed doable, but it ends up being like a huge mess. And in the middle of it, like the site had a massive issue for like a couple of days.

WDA Student (00:45:41) - Did you cause that issue?

WDA Student (00:45:43) - I did, yeah.

Shannon Mattern (00:45:46) - How did you cause that issue?

WDA Student (00:45:48) - So basically, one of the plugins that I installed in certain situations didn't allow people to check out, but it wasn't like, easily reproducible on my end. Like, it was hard to nail down exactly what the what the issue was.

Shannon Mattern (00:46:05) - Should you have known in advance that that would happen?

WDA Student (00:46:08) - No.

WDA Student (00:46:10) - Okay. No.

Shannon Mattern (00:46:11) - So it's not like a something that you knew could have happened, but just didn't warn your client about.

WDA Student (00:46:20) - Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like it wasn't like there's no way I could have known that without setting up a plugin. Like, that was like a bug within the plugin so that it was affecting.

Shannon Mattern (00:46:32) - How is a bug within a plugin that you installed at the direction of your client who wanted to make a change that you didn't recommend to him? Your fault.

WDA Student (00:46:44) - Guess it's not.

Shannon Mattern (00:46:46) - Tell me how you did everything in your power once you discovered this bug that you did not cause. But once you discovered this bug, tell me how you did everything in your power to fix the problem. Oh, you didn't code. You weren't the coder of the plugin. You didn't advise him to make this shift from this thing to this thing. But you discovered the issue. Or he did or you did or whoever did. Who discovered it? Both of you only.

WDA Student (00:47:17) - Discovered it on his end. Yeah.

Shannon Mattern (00:47:18) - Yeah. And then you troubleshoot it.

WDA Student (00:47:21) - Right, right.

WDA Student (00:47:23) - Yeah. And was there any troubleshooting it?

WDA Student (00:47:25) - And like, I went I spent like evenings and weekends trying to figure out what the problem was.

Shannon Mattern (00:47:30) - And you didn't charge him for that either, did you?

WDA Student (00:47:33) - No.

WDA Student (00:47:34) - Yeah.

WDA Student (00:47:35) - Didn't.

Shannon Mattern (00:47:36) - And so this scenario seems to have really like shaken your confidence won, but made you think that you should have seen this coming and should have done something differently. And because you didn't like you can't you can't charge such and such for a maintenance package for this person.

WDA Student (00:47:59) - Totally. Yeah, exactly. It's like, I feel like I'm not like, felt like that shook my confidence in my abilities and my skills made me feel like incompetent.

WDA Student (00:48:08) - What if you.

Shannon Mattern (00:48:08) - Did exactly what you were hired to do?

WDA Student (00:48:11) - Yeah, I guess that's what I did because I implemented it and then I troubleshoot it. The issue. Yeah, maybe there's a little bit of, like, perfectionism where, like, I feel like I can't make a mistake. Maybe there's something. Yeah, yeah.

Shannon Mattern (00:48:28) - I want you to really spend some time thinking about this situation and how you did exactly what you were supposed to do in this entire situation. Okay.

WDA Student (00:48:42) - All right.

Shannon Mattern (00:48:43) - And as you're looking through your maintenance package, the language in it and stuff, is there any perfectionistic language in your package? Like do you have anything that says like, head off issues or prevent this or things that really are not like in your control to shift that to address any issues that arise within the time frame. You know, where are you taking like extraordinary responsibility for things that aren't your responsibility?

WDA Student (00:49:22) - Okay. I'll look through and see. I'll review it and see. Nothing's like sticking out. Yeah, but I'll double check on that.

Shannon Mattern (00:49:32) - And maybe there's not any specific language, but, like, I want you to relook at it through the lens of my role here is like known prevention, right. Like we know it's best practices to implement best practices. Yeah. And there are always unknowns that no one can know. And my role there, depending on the package, is to troubleshoot and resolve the unknowns to the best of not like some things aren't resolvable either, or to provide guidance in these types of situations.

Shannon Mattern (00:50:14) - You know, when there isn't a good solution. Yeah.

WDA Student (00:50:18) - Okay.

Shannon Mattern (00:50:19) - So we have to remove from you the part where you think everything has an answer that you have to be the one to have it, and that nothing should ever go wrong on your watch because you followed all the best practices. You went above and beyond to fix it. You came to a resolution. It's working, and your maintenance packages are very valuable to continue to get that level of service from you. Now, I just need you to believe that. I think she might have dropped off, so I hope that she hears that. I think she might have her call might have dropped. We have just a few more minutes, so I feel like Aisha Erika answered you in the chat. What if I'm running out of people to reach out to in my marketing? Where should I go next? Erika shared that we have the connection scripts. I would also just invite you to go back to that initial like dream, like that initial like brainstorm list, because we asked you, like all of these different categories like get the latest workbook.

Shannon Mattern (00:51:32) - I don't know what workbook you have. Get the latest workbook from that. And there's like a brainstorm of like so many different things in there. Go back through that with fresh eyes. Like I would even literally like not look at my old workbook. I would just make a new copy of that workbook with fresh eyes and just like, go through that again and see what else you can pull out. You might have the list that you made however long ago. Let's just like set that one down and with fresh perspective, make a new one and see what you come up with that way too. Lee says Lauren, I can definitely relate. Even if it was something you missed, which in this case it sounds like it wasn't. It doesn't make you incompetent. In my experience, clients care more about how you handle the situation instead of whether you got it right the first time. Absolutely. That's such great, great advice. So it's like you went into this with integrity and and. All of the things so amazing.

Shannon Mattern (00:52:35) - Well, welcome to our new people. We are thrilled to have you here. Can't wait to get on orientation calls to connect with you tomorrow. And then yeah, we will send you off to learn or relax or whatever you want to do for the holidays. And then we'll come back in 2023 with what's next. So yeah, happy holidays, Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah. Happy all the holidays that you guys all celebrate in all of your traditions. And I'm going to miss you guys. I'll see you all in 2022 if you're graduating on December 31st. We so enjoyed our time together. You are amazing. Stay in touch. You're awesome! We can't wait to see what you create. And yes, Katelyn, next level is still on for tomorrow. So all right everyone, see you in 2023. Bye. If you're ready to finally stop under charging and over delivering. If you're ready to take back control of your time and book more high paying clients you love and make more money as a web designer than you ever thought possible, than book a zero pressure discovery call with me today.

Shannon Mattern (00:54:04) - All you got to do is go to a web designer academy. Com forward slash call, choose one of the available time slots, fill out the intake form, and we'll meet on zoom to talk about your goals and what's really in the way of you reaching them. And if it looks like I can help you inside the Web Designer Academy, we can talk more about what that looks like. It is super chill. There's zero obligation to say yes to working with us. If you book a call with me, it is simply a chance for you to learn more about how we can specifically help you, you personally, with your unique skills, personality, and experience to create a highly profitable, sustainable web design business and create the freedom, flexibility, financial independence and fulfillment that you started this business for in the first place. So just go to Web Designer Academy. Com forward slash call and I can't wait to talk to you more about your web design business.

A smiling person with a tooth showing on their chin is looking indoors.

Shannon Mattern
Web Designer Academy


I help ambitious women web designers reclaim their time, book web design projects they love, and make more as a freelance web designer than they ever thought possible.

I created the Web Designer Academy to give you everything I wished I would have had when I started freelancing:  step-by-step processes and fill-in-the-blank templates for your messaging, marketing, packages, consultations, sales and project management combined with next-level support so that you have everything you need to create a consistently profitable web design business doing work you love for clients you love.