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Revenue Reset Part 3: Confident Money Conversations

Welcome back to the Profitable Web Designer Podcast! Today I'm bringing you Part 3 of the Revenue Reset Challenge – so if you haven't listened to Part 1 – Turning Mindtrash Into Gold and Part 2 – Transforming Your Pricing Paradigm, definitely listen to that first and then come back to the final episode in the Challenge!

In Part 3, you're gonna do an analysis of your current clients to understand the value they've been able to create as a result of working with you… and to identify the clients that are difficult to work with, that owe you money, or that you're undercharging. Then you're gonna learn how to have confident money conversations with any client (dreamy or dreadful) so that you can reset your revenue once and for all.


Shannon Mattern (00:00.334)

Hey there, welcome back to the revenue reset challenge. Day one, we did some math and we figured out your mind trash around your money. And then on day two, I taught you how to do mind trash makeovers. I taught you how your thoughts create your feelings, determine your actions, create your results every single time. And so it's so important to really notice what we're thinking.

and decide, like analyze that and saying, like, is this true? Is this helping me create a wanted result or an unwanted result? And how do I go from thinking this thing now that's creating an unwanted result to thinking something that's going to help me create a wanted result? And I say that because you would not be here at the revenue reset challenge. If you already thought you could charge that much, that you could raise your prices, that your clients would

Um, you know, that you wouldn't be afraid of your client's reaction to you raising your prices. If you believed that no matter, um, what happens, there's always another client on the way. And maybe you're starting to believe those things. Maybe you believe some of those things, but if you already believed them, you would be charging what you want to ultimately be charging for your services. So.

That's why this work is so important. And then on day three, we examined your own personal pricing paradigm, like how do you think about money? But we also looked at how you perceive how your clients look at money. So we always talk in the Web Designer Academy about staying out of your client's wallets. I had a business coach say that to me once.

And I was like, Oh my gosh, yes. Like we need to stay out of their wallets. Their financial situation is truly none of our business. It is our job to deliver a tool and an experience that helps them get what they want, not to save them money or protect them or all the things that we think we're responsible for, we're not their grown adults, they can manage their finances, it's not our job to do that for them, it's our job to give them all the information that they need.

Shannon Mattern (02:15.614)

to make the decision to work with us. It's our job to show them what's possible for them in their web design business. It's our job to start thinking about what we do, not just like, Oh, Hey, I pushed some buttons and, um, built you a website. And that's what I spent my time on. It's like, Oh no, I've created this tool that you can go now use to, um, get what you want in your business and to sell those things, not the thing that you created, right?

So we talked about examining how you think about your own money. And is that creating wanted results for you or unwanted results for you? And how could you shift that? Examining how you think about what your clients think about money, which you may or may not know to be true for a fact. Right. And how is that like holding you back from taking action to

make the amount of money you want to make or work less or whatever that is that you want. And we talked about pricing paradigms. So what we're going to do today in day four is now that we have this like foundational late, I guess, is you're going to look for all the places you are currently leaving money on the table. I should call this the like picking money up off the table day four.

Right? So we're going to look at all of the different opportunities for you to reset your revenue. You've reset your mindset around what's possible for you. Now it's time to actually start like looking for those opportunities. Our next step in the revenue reset challenge is to pick up all the money that we're currently leaving on the table. Right?

And Heather says just the biggest, her biggest takeaways to stay out of clients. Well, it's if that's one thing that you can continually remind yourself of when you're making proposals, when you're having conversations, when you're saying your price, if you can just be like. They're financial situations, none of my business, they're grown up. They can make their own decisions. Um, that can just kind of calm you down when you're having some of those more difficult money conversations, if that's, if that's something that bothers you.

Shannon Mattern (04:43.338)

Chantelle says, I think how much of my business is in the dark, not knowing my numbers on my mindset trash that I need to examine and let go of. I really need to work on my business. I want to caution those of you who might be feeling the way that Chantelle's feeling right now is that you don't have to ever have. All of this stuff figured out before you take action. I don't want you to be like.

I have too much. I have so much money and I'm not saying that this is what you're thinking, Chantelle, but I see this happen with people when they're like, I have so much mind trash and there's so much I am not paying attention to and I didn't know my numbers and all of these things that I need to figure all of that out before I take action on getting clients or raising my prices or, or whatever. And what I want to.

Shannon Mattern (05:41.906)

along the way because we have web designer academy students that have chosen to stay with us for going like since we launched the program in 2016 and they are still um renewing every single year because this stuff comes up over and over again.

in new situations and in new scenarios. And it's not a problem that it does. It's it's managing it as a skill, just like the skill of web design. It's never fixed forever. As much as we would love to say some, some things will, some things you will have a big enough of a shift that you're just like, okay, yeah, like that is that's cleaned up. I'm good. But if you think.

that you have to have it all cleaned up to have a successful web design business. I want to caution anyone who is thinking that because. You will never have it all cleaned up.

You'll never, it'll never be perfect. It'll never be, um, uh, it'll just never be done. But that means that you can get started now. Right. Like every, like when we talk about, when you wait for perfection, you are, there's an opportunity cost to that. Right.

The longer you wait to get clients, the less time you have to learn to uncover the mind trash to make money, you're just delaying making money. You're delaying your results. So I want to encourage those of you who are like, Oh, I have so much mind trash. I have so many things I need to clean up. I have to get all this fixed before I can start or before I can raise my prices. You clean it up as you go.

Shannon Mattern (07:44.918)

You take action, you notice how you're feeling. You're like, Oh, I need to get some coaching on that. Or I'm going to, I'm going to coach myself through that. Right. And I can promise you, we have people who are in their third year of our next level program, meaning I think they've, that must mean they've been with us for, in this, this version of the program for at least four years and it's they're making 10 times more than they were making.

Or charging 10 times more for projects than they were charging. And the same thing still come up. The same thing still come up. So like the, I knew might turn into like, I don't know enough about this thing that I want to do, like it comes up in different ways. And so you just have to be so mindful of it. Gabrielle says that I don't have to say yes to everything that comes my way out of fear of work drying up so good. Tracy said.

Um, from when you did Karen's mind trash makeover, I don't have to be unique. I just have to know how to solve their problem. Yes. Amazing. Thank you all for sharing that with me. So now we're going to identify all the different ways that you're potentially leaving money on the table, um, with current clients that you are actively working with.

And I'll tell you how to do this exercise. If we don't have any clients right now, because I know we have some new people, like newer web designers who are just getting started probably watching this. But really this is like, I'm talking in this exercise about like you're actively working with clients. So I want you to just in your first column, start listing out the names of.

clients that you're currently working with. Maybe you have a retainer package or a maintenance package with them. Maybe you're in the middle of a project with them. Maybe they're just someone that you don't have an official agreement with, but they come back to you and they need things if you need to add rows to this, you can just right click or two finger click on a Mac and insert a row.

Shannon Mattern (10:02.002)

I feel like I probably don't need to tell this crowd that I'm just so used to. Like when I was teaching DIYers how to do stuff, like when I, when I'd show it, like I like to actually show them, like, here's how to use your computer to do the thing, I probably don't have to tell you guys that this room that sometimes it's just a habit. Um, so just list out all of those clients. So just take a minute. Don't leave anyone off the list. There's no.

There's no point in leaving anyone off the list. It's just, let's like do a brain dump of all of our, um, all of our clients. And then after you get their names down, I want you to think about each person.

And answer the question, like, what has this client been able to create in their business and their life as a result of your work together? So I'm trying to just think of some clients that, um, some of my old clients, um, one of my very early clients, uh, like rents sound equipment. And this was like one of my very first clients and, um,

You know, I built a really simple website for them and it was like one of my first clients. I think I charged like $25 an hour because that's what I was making. At my day job at the time. And that was 2014. So in 10 years, um, they have. Grown exponentially. They're using the exact same website. Still cracks me up. They've grown exponentially.

They have several sets of equipment. They're retired. They are able to work whatever they want and travel and have a very healthy retirement income because they, you know, they are like one of the number one, like AV rental equipment companies in like this area. And

Shannon Mattern (12:18.338)

So as a result of this, like they've been able to create freedom, I could probably go in and look if I wanted to and see how many how many thousands of rentals they've done in the past 10 years and quantify how much money they've made through that, I could I could go ask them. But you know, I could ask and do a case study. So what has this client been able to create in their business and life as a result of you working together? You might not know exact numbers.

And also, if you don't know, it'd be a perfect opportunity for you to reconnect and ask to follow up and see how see how things are going and ask these questions as well. But so think about that, like what results of this has this client been able to create in terms of time, money, capacity?

Another example that comes to mind is one of our web designer Academy students who built a website for a realtor. And I think she charged a couple thousand dollars for this website because she was working on her pricing mindset and built a website for a realtor and she is in the Las Vegas market and her realtor client, the day they launched the website,

Shannon Mattern (13:45.518)

client and found that person. No, I think it was, I think she was selling that person's home, not, not representing them as a buyer. She was selling that person's home and it was a half a million dollar house and sold it. And I think sold it for half a million. And I was like, what's the commission for your client on a half a million dollar house? Is that like 6%?

And she was like, yeah, I said, so the website that you built for your realtor client that you charged $2,000 for. Who got her a client through the inquiry form on our website that she did not know that came from a search hired her to sell the house and then she made how much, how much, what's 6% of 500,000. Right. So think about this.

Think about what your clients are able to create as a result of this. So take some time to go through. And just think about what have they been able to create?

How do you feel about how much you're currently charging this client? Do you feel like you're under charging? Are you not charging for a lot of the work that you do? Do you feel resentful? Do you feel awesome? Do you feel like it's a totally equal exchange? It's so fair. Like it's a, it's a delight. You, you think that like, um, it's, it feels good to you. Do you feel like you're

doing more work than you're getting paid for? Are you charging for everything that you're doing? Is it one of those situations where like, oh, they're the podcast episode that came out yesterday. Uh, should you work with friends and family? Like, oh, they're a family friend. So I charge them like a fraction of what I would charge a new person. And I've been working with them for five years. And even though I charge new people more.

Shannon Mattern (15:54.966)

I don't feel like I can raise my prices for them. Like how do you feel about how much you're currently charging this client? Like what's your story around it? And then if you, if you could change things, like this is a thought experiment. Like I'm not gonna, I'm not going to hold you to taking action on all of this because if I say tomorrow, I'm going to make you go do all these things.

It's going to just shut down your, um, nervous, like your brain. You're probably get some cortisol and some adrenaline and your highest level thinking is going to shut down and you'll be like, Oh, I can't do this exercise. So I don't, I want you to do like a, in a perfect world thought experiment. What if any changes need to be made to your pricing and invoicing?

Do you have outstanding invoices with this client that like they just haven't paid you? Or are you under charging? Are you not charging for everything that you're doing? Are are you on a maintenance agreement with them and they ask for more than what's included?

Do they expect you to be available 24 seven, but you don't feel like they're paying enough for you to be available 24 seven to them. So if you could change anything about your relationship, your, your financial arrangement with this client, what would it be? Are you charging them hourly and you'd like to move them to a monthly fee like a retainer?

Uh, do they, do they, are they paying like a rate from five years ago? And they just keep coming back for more stuff and you just keep charging them the hourly rate that you charged them when you met them five years ago. If you could change anything about that, what would you change? And keep in mind your minimum baseline revenue and how much you want to make. Right. And then the final question is like, do you love working with this client? Why are we not?

Shannon Mattern (18:10.146)

Do you love working with this client? Why or not? I had so many, I wouldn't say so many, I had so many clients that I loved. Back in the day, I was thinking about all of the really cool projects that I got to work on, um, with clients. And I'm just like, wow, like those were, that was like a really diverse set of, um, projects and business problems to solve and clients to work with and people just doing really cool things.

which I think is one of the most fun things about being a web designer is just like getting to getting to like if you like business and you like technology, just really getting to do that. Some people are like more visually creative. I'm definitely more of a use technology to solve to create solution solutions to business problems kind of person. I had so many clients that I loved, but I had a handful that I was like.

This client's making me question whether I want to continue to do this business. And my employee mindset is, uh, is coming up hard where I don't feel like I can, uh, let them go.

But I could have, I just didn't know it at the time. So do you love working with this client? Why are we not?

I had a client that, um, they started a fitness company. It's the best way to describe it, but it was like three partners and a daughter and an ex-wife and somebody else all trying to like, figure out what this company was. And someone would tell me to do one thing on the website and then someone else would come and change it. And it was just like a disaster nightmare.

Shannon Mattern (20:03.454)

I did not love working with that client because...

There were too many, many reasons, but there were way too many cooks in the kitchen, right? And I was like, this is not like there's the project management on this is like 10 times more time than the actual project time building website, right? So think about all of these things.

Shannon Mattern (20:31.042)

So Chantelle says my biggest thing with most of my clients is I should have charged more for additional pages. So it sounds like maybe there was like a little bit of scope creep happening where it's like, oh yeah, can we add a page for this and oh yeah, I'm going to start a, I'm launching a podcast. Can you add a section for my podcast? I forgot to tell you that when we, uh, had our, had our consultation and oh yeah, I need a page for this thing that I'm doing and a page for that thing that I'm doing.

And then you just end up like including it. Right. You just like, oh, yeah, sure. Oh, yeah, sure. So, yes, those are examples of. Places where you're leaving money on the table, right? In the Web Designer Academy, we teach a strategy for structuring your packages to like mitigate that. But.

for those of you who are in this challenge and who are not in the program yet. Yes, that's a place where you're definitely leaving money on the table and you can start changing that now. So after you complete this list,

Then I want you to sort it. And I was going to put this in a spreadsheet, but I'm like, eh, I'll just leave it in this Google doc. I want you to sort it by client. You like working with the least. Put those people at the top and put the people that you love working with the most at the bottom. After you've, after you've gone through all of this and this current client analysis piece.

is really, really important because one of the things that freaks people out so much about like price increases or changing offers or launching new packages or any kind of change is that they feel like they have to send out one email to all their clients and offer all their clients the exact same thing at the exact same time and they'll

Shannon Mattern (22:45.574)

All of their clients will say no, they'll lose all of their clients and one fell swoop. They'll be broke and lose everything and have to just start completely from scratch. Does that resonate with any of you? The fear of like, if I raise my prices, I'll lose all my clients. So we don't roll out price increases uniformly across all of our clients. And we don't do it all at the same time either. I.

Uh, used to listen to Dave Ramsey back in the day, like the debt free, like that free guy. I think he's a little extreme for me nowadays, but, um, what he used to say, like when, uh, when people would have like a lot of creditors that they'd own, they'd have like a lot of bill collectors calling. He'd be like, don't touch all of them at once. If you don't have any money, you don't have any money.

When you get some money and you're ready to pay for pay one debt off, call that person up and wake that dog up. He would always say, wake that dog up and then handle them. And then you address them one at a time. That's what we do with our clients too, with our price increases. Right. So we start by changing the situations that are giving us the most trouble that are

that are causing us the most, like living rent free in our head, right? Like the clients that are living rent free in our heads, the ones that we're dreading talking to, the ones that we just are like, that make us question whether we wanna keep doing this. Maybe they're not that bad, you know, but I know we've all had them. And we start there. And we start there from the place of like, if this client goes away,

I'm okay because honestly, the amount of time and money and emotional bandwidth that they are taking from me is actually costing me.

Shannon Mattern (24:55.922)

Money to continue to, to charge, to work with this client at the level that I'm working with them is costing me money because all of that time, mental energy, um, capacity could be used to put myself out there in marketing to get a new client at my new prices, to actually love what I do, to work less, to whatever. Right. So

There's some willingness to let go of clients that don't serve us. And we'll talk more about that tomorrow in the challenge. But I always say we do this one at a time and we don't have to do the same thing for everybody. I think there's also a part where we think like.

I have to like be uniform and offer the same pricing and same services to every single client, and I'm going to raise my prices across the board and everybody has to be the same thing. No, you don't. You can do different things to solve different problems with different clients. Right. And so that's why we're doing a current client analysis and then we problem solve each client individually.

So one of our web designer Academy students, Lee, who is one of those like year four renewal students as well. This is one of the first things that we did when she joined the web designer Academy. Because she was getting a lot of clients on Upwork and she had all of these different arrangements with them. And she was like,

getting, she was just not wanting to, um, pay the fees. And I don't, there's something about them going off platform that I'm not sure how that works, but I think like she did some projects on platform and then, um, they came to be like her clients later on, but she still had all these, like, they were just taking up so much of her time and she wasn't getting paid that much, and so we listed all of these out and we put together a plan.

Shannon Mattern (27:14.826)

together, looked at her list and I'm like, okay, for this client, here's this strategy in the web designer Academy. This is the one that you're going to use. Here's the scripts for that. You roll that out. Once that's done, then we'll move on to the next one and the next one and the next one and her revenue, she doubled her revenue just by picking up all the money that she was leaving on the table and cleaning up her web design business before she was even booking new clients.

And so I think that this is such a missed opportunity for people where they're like, oh, I just have like to call it, like you guys watch friends, you know, Monica's closets in the later seasons where she has this like closet. No one's ever seen before. And she opens it up and there's just like this giant mess in her closet. She's like, so ashamed of it. It's like, we have this secret closet mess full of clients that.

We're just like, Oh, I just wish that like, I don't want to deal with those. I just want to like come in, like get new clients and new packages and rebrand and change my niche when you could make a lot of money cleaning this mess up. Right. So I want you to take the time to do this work because tomorrow I'm going to give you some scripts to, to reset your revenue, to have confidence.

Money conversations and tomorrow I'm going to ask you to choose one client from the above list. Use one of the scripts that I'm going to give you tomorrow and reset your revenue with the client. And that's when your hands are going to start to sweat and you're going to be like, I don't know if I can do it. What if they get mad at me? What if they leave me a bad review? And then guess what we get to do.

Go back up and clean up all your mind trash and get to the place where you're like, I'm in integrity with what I'm doing and I can let another adult think what they want to think. Right. So, so much of the coaching that we do inside of the web designer academy, once people get past the first 90 days of like kind of

Shannon Mattern (29:39.358)

like setting foundations and they start taking action to implement some of these revenue generating strategies is coaching on all of the mindset stuff and all of the things that come up around actually doing the things, actually taking the actions, um, to move forward in a way that feels authentic to us and in integrity and lets us like figure out like what we're really afraid of and

Shannon Mattern (30:16.804)

And it, and it, all it does is build, build your resilience. Right. So figure out where you're leaving money on the table. What changes need to be made? And then you can go back to the

And then tomorrow I'm going to teach you how to have confident money conversations in a way that feels. It's still going to feel a little stretchy. Maybe for some of you, some people are just like, I'm over this. I got it. I don't need coaching. This has been a long time coming. I'm good. I'm sending the email. Other people are a little more hesitant and need to kind of work through some stuff. So.

I'm going to teach you how to have those confident money conversations tomorrow. And then you're going to make a commitment to reset your revenue with one person on this list. And it's not so scary when you don't try to do it all at once. It's still going to be a little bit scary, but that big bad. I'm going to I'm never going to I'm going to lose all my clients. I'm not going to have anything coming in that gets calmed down by this.

Then you learn how to set boundaries and you learn how to stand up for yourself. And you learn how to say, Hey, and not in a punitive way. I never, never. I'm like, Hey, you wanted more pages pay up buddy, holding your website hostage until, until you do like, we don't do it like that. I could, you'll see tomorrow.

So Chantelle said, I actually increased my prices by only $500 in a week. Later brought it back down. I'd be so curious to know Chantelle why you brought your prices back down. Um, Tracy said, that's a big mindset thing that I've been working on this year that you have to let go of the bad to make room for the good. Yeah. It feels, um, it feels. Scary. Like sometimes the, the.

Shannon Mattern (32:24.626)

I remember when I was like, I had a day job and I was just really, this was before I ever thought entrepreneurship was a path for me. I remember, um, I really did not want to work for that company anymore. And so I started interviewing and I got an interview, um, with another similar company like you'd like doing. I have the, um,

software experience in this space and they use the same software and it would be doing the database administration for this other company. And I remember, like. I'm going and interviewing and they're like, they're like, yes, or hours or nine to five. And if you need to leave like 10 months early to make it to your kids soccer game, you totally can. But otherwise, we're pretty strict.

just in the middle of downtown and I was like, I don't have kids. So, you know, um, like, is there no flexibility because I don't have children? Like these are the things that I'm thinking. And I got an offer and it was like 10,000 more than what I was currently making a day job. And I just remember thinking like, huh, you know, this stage, this current job that I have. Is like.

slowly draining me, my soul out of my body. And I'm going to stay here because I was like the D it's the devil, you know, right? The devil, you know, versus the devil that you don't. And sometimes we feel like I'd rather just like, Hey, this is a predictable, you know, money coming in with this client that I hate, but like, what else is possible for you? What else is possible for you?

When you do let go of those things that are really weighing you down. Well, she says, it's definitely a big mindset shift that there's no room. If you can't bring anyone new in or allow your perfect fit or allow perfect fit clients to grow within your services. Yeah, absolutely. So Shantel says I have debt to pay off and I started getting anxiety that raising my prices will mean I'll get less inquiries and won't be able to pay it down fast enough. That is really, really.

Shannon Mattern (34:48.338)

important to know Chantelle. And I'm so glad that you shared that with us because that is, that's definitely something to run through a mind trash makeover because it comes through from the core belief that like people won't pay that much. It's too high. It's too much. It's not worth that much.

You have to shift what you think about it first before anybody will ever pay it. Because if you think it's too high, you're not going to, you're going to feel bad when you get on a consultation with someone, you're going to feel like you're harming them by having them pay that price.

So you have to be sold on your $500 more price and, and really have that makeover. Why is that? Uh, why is that a win-win? Why is it worth it? What can your clients create all of those things, sell yourself on the value. And then when you do it, you'll be like, you want to go from what this is for everyone.

Shannon Mattern (36:03.446)

So the revenue reset challenge is really about like resetting your revenue with current clients, but I am going to talk briefly about just like increasing your prices in general. Cause Chantelle just brought this up and I, I don't want to like have you leave this challenge without hearing this, I want you to feel about your prices at your minimum baseline revenue, or even if whether you're leaving here and you're going to raise your prices by $50, $5, $500.

$5,000. I don't care. I want you to feel like your client is getting the deal of the century that like they're ripping you off at that price in the best way that you're only charging them $10,000 because you know, they can go on to make 10 times more than that. Um, 50 times more, 20 times more.

I need you to sell yourself on what's possible for your clients.

Shannon Mattern (37:10.79)

So that when you choose your price, you're like, I'm actually like, it's sustainable for me, but they're getting a deal. They're getting a deal at 10,000. This is worth 25,000.

Shannon Mattern (37:26.242)

So Chantel, I need you to sell yourself on your $500 price increase. I don't know if that's, I'm just going to make up a number. If it's 2000 to 2,500.

Shannon Mattern (37:40.602)

I need you to figure out how is, how are they going to be able to make 10 times more than that five times more than that? How is it? How are they getting the way better end of the deal? And then you won't feel weird, uh, offering it.

Shannon Mattern (38:05.934)

So sell yourself on your pricing. We have a whole module in the web designer Academy on selling on like how to sell yourself, um, on your pricing. So my goal for you for the end of this challenge tomorrow is to either pick up some of the money that you've currently been leaving on the table with current clients, is there an unpaid invoice that you need to collect on? Is there some scope creep that you need to have a conversation?

Is there someone who's been on your maintenance plan for five years at a extremely low rate that's due for a price increase? What are some of these opportunities? And then tomorrow we are going to talk about, okay, how do I move forward in communicating, uh, confidently. A change in this relationship, or like we were talking with Chantel, if you

Don't have any clients right now that I have that you're like working with it. There's money involved in you just want to like raise your prices for new clients. How do you sell your like commit to doing that and sell yourself on that? That's outside of the scope of this challenge. Um, we teach that inside of our program, but think about that. You think of all the reasons why you think you can't run it through a mind trash makeover and come to the place where you can.

Shannon Mattern (00:00.41)

Now let's start putting this into action. Right. So I had you list out all of your current clients and do an analysis of them. Like what has that client been able to create as a result of working with you? How do you feel about how much you're currently charging? What changes need to happen? Where are you leaving money on the table with every single client that you're working with? Maybe you're not leaving money on the table with some clients and that's amazing. Maybe some

Some things don't need to change. Maybe some things do. And do you love working with this client? So we had you go through and do this analysis. And this is so important because we think often that in order to reset our revenue, in order to make the money that we want to make in our web design business, that we have to change everything we need to rebrand, change niches, redesign our website, update our messaging, all of these things that we think we need to do.

Those things are what we call passive action. They keep you busy. It may, it feels like you're working. It feels like you're, um, doing something, but it's actually not creating, getting you any closer to the results that you want. It's not create. It's not.

You have to fundamentally change what you think about you. And it doesn't matter what those other things are. Yes, it's like, yes, we all want to like put our best foot forward and we want to be able to do what we want to do. And so that's the way it works. And then the next thing is, you know, you're going to have to change your mindset. You're going to have to change your mindset. And so that's the way it works. And then the next thing is, you know, you're going to have to change your mindset. And so that's the way it works.

whatever, but that's, but when you find yourself in that loop of. When I have everything perfect, then I will be worthy of more money from my clients, that that's, that's not how that works. So we have to break you out of that. Your current client analysis. This is like the opportunity that so many people miss. So many people skip. This is the low, like I said, it's the low hanging fruit. You get the courage and the confidence.

Shannon Mattern (02:19.854)

to make adjustments with who you're currently working with to fix your pricing and the places that you're leaking time and money with those people, you start making more money with less effort and then you have the capacity to go get new clients at higher prices. You have the confidence. So that's so important.

Shannon Mattern (02:49.522)

Make a decision like before I go start over again or redo my messaging or rebrand or redesign or whatever. I think is going to actually make me more money. I'm going to solve. I'm going to like look for opportunities right in front of me. I'm going to solve the problems in the places that I have been that are uncomfortable for me to look at and see how much money I can pick up off the table that way.

That is one of the most powerful places that you can reset your revenue in your business, and that's what we're going to do today. So day five, this is called a challenge for a reason, right? I challenge you to look at your thoughts. I challenge you to examine your belief systems and your paradigms. I've challenged you to look at like some of the things that maybe you don't really want to look at today. I'm going to challenge you to take some action and actually implement what

we have been talking about and, and have you choose one client from your current list and reset your revenue with that client so you can choose the easiest person, you can choose the person that, um, you would not be sad if they were like, yeah, no, I don't want to continue working together. And you're like, Oh my gosh, thank God. That is like the biggest relief ever.

because I don't want to work with you anymore either, but I didn't want to fire you. You can choose one. I'm giving you a few scripts to use to start having confident money conversations. And let me share my screen so we can dive into these. So I'm going to go over these for you in just a second. But before we do, I just want to shout out a couple of comments.

Uh, in the Facebook group from yesterday that I thought were like really, really good. And I wanted to, um, get them into the replay, especially if, um, if you're watching this and you weren't in the Facebook group to see the comments, um, Emmanuel shared after watching the replay, I realized that it's not my prices that are the problem. It's totally my mind trash because I've been feeling bad about these prices thinking they were too high for my clients.

Shannon Mattern (05:07.454)

I haven't been charging all of my hours, often charging only half, essentially cutting my prices in half or even doing a lot of quick favors for free. If that resonates with you. Think about this, if she has been charging half her hours and doing quick favors for free, she could double her revenue just by charging for all the work that she's doing. One of these scripts that I'm about to give you.

If that is you also, if you constantly find yourself discounting without being asked or doing extra favors for free, you could double your revenue just by stopping doing that. Right. So this is so powerful. You don't have to go rebuild everything and redo everything. You just need to have the confidence to have these conversations with your clients. Right. And, you know, you're getting the opportunity.

during these five days to like get coached by me, but you could have the opportunity for us to do this every single week for a year, every single day. I mean, I don't work every single day, but Monday through Friday, 48 weeks of the year, you could have access to coaching. And I'll tell you more about how, uh, how you can, um, learn more about what that looks like here at the end of day five. Um,

And then Sam shared, uh, that I'm the replay queen. Once again, I think my biggest takeaway has been the mind trash has caused my shutdown, not the other way around. So she's saying that, like, she thought that her shutdown had caused the mind trash, but now she's realizing that the mind trash caused the shutdown. And I think that is so powerful because now you know how to make over your mind trash, right? And so she said, I'm feeling more positive that the motivation isn't there yet. So I need to work through some more things to get my head fully back in the game.

So if that's you, if you're like, okay, I realize the problem, but I'm not motivated. Motivated is a feeling. So you get to make over your, uh, you get to make over your feelings too. You get to, uh, if you're like, I want to feel motivated so that I can XYZ, take that feeling of motivated and plug it into the makeover line.

Shannon Mattern (07:31.07)

and then work backwards from there. If you need to feel motivated to take the actions that we're talking about here today to send some of these scripts to reach out to past clients or people in your network and let them know you have new packages for working together and you need to feel motivated to do that. What do you need to think? What do you need to think to create the feeling of motivation?

Your actions don't create motivation. Your thoughts create motivation. So I just wanted to share that with you. So if you're like, Oh, I don't feel motivated. Mind trash makeover that, that feeling you can do that too. You can be like, okay, well, what do I need to think to feel motivated? So low hanging fruit, the revenue reset challenge is helping you pick up all the money that you're leaving on the table without having to, um, make a bunch of changes in your business.

Okay, so a couple of things. I've given you these confident money conversation scripts for you to use them. There are some belief shifts that need to solidify for you. And the most important one is that you and your client are equals. Right. The power like you have to believe. That the power dynamic is even.

Not that they're like above you in some way or in charge of you or your boss or more important than you and that their money in their bank account and their results are more important than yours. And then you also can't believe that yours is more important than theirs. It has to be the balance. It has to be even a collaborate a collaboration. Right. Like we're both like a win win.

You have to think that about your clients. You can't think I'm more important than them or they're more important than me. Because if you do, you're going to have a really hard time. Um, sending these scripts, right? Um, and. Well, that's, I could talk about the, I could talk about the power, the power balance, um, that'll be a whole podcast episode probably, but you have to truly feel.

Shannon Mattern (09:51.902)

Like this working together is like good for both of you. Right. And so, you know, if you've been undercharging, you know, if you haven't been charging for all the work that you're doing, you, you know, all of these things. And so you've cleaned up all of your mind trash as to why, and now you're ready to fix it, right? So that's where these scripts come in. And so I've given you.

Uh, several scripts and I'm going to go through these and I'm going to go through the key parts of these. Um, and then I'm going to challenge you to pick one and send it and then let me know what happened. So Kate shared that I read it, the client analysis yesterday and helped me make some boundaries with a couple of clients. I felt met about it was great. It was a great refresh to take my power back. Yes. It's like you, like sometimes we just let things get out of balance.

Right. And we need to like reset the balance. Love that. Thanks for sharing that, Kate. So. First script is a price increase script, so maybe you found that on your current client analysis, you have that client that like you've been working with at that like newbie rate forever or it's a friends and family rate or some rate where you're just like, I would never like I don't even charge this to anyone anymore, like.

It's, it's time. It is time. My time, like you've just made the decision.

Here's a script like an email that you can send to them. Important update on our work together. Subject line, dear client. Wow. We've been working together for almost two years, ten years, five years, 20 years. I'm so grateful for your loyalty and hope to continue supporting you for many years to come. I'm reaching out to let you know about new packages and pricing that I'm rolling out in whenever you say arbitrary. Right. You get to pick. Here's a link to all the details.

Shannon Mattern (11:53.91)

Based on our work together up until now, I think you'd be a great fit for this package. I'll talk about packages in a second because you've been so loyal to me. I'm going to give you 30 more days at your current rates. Effective this date. I'm discontinuing our current billing arrangement. Like maybe you're hourly, maybe you're hourly and you want to convert to retainer. Maybe.

Whatever it is, just update that for you. And all clients will need to be on one of my retainer packages in order to continue working together, hit reply and let me know which package would you like me to get set up for you. Please reach out if you have any questions. I really enjoy working with you and look and look forward to continue supporting you in the future. So basically, you're saying like, hey, I'm changing how I'm running my business because I reserve the right to do that because it's my business, just like your client has.

their own business and they reserve the right to change anything they want about their business at any time and you're letting them know. And when I talk about new packages and pricing, we teach a strategy in the web designer Academy called the irresistible package matrix. Um, and so that's what we would have our students offer when they're doing this price increase script is put, you know, put together the irresistible package matrix and then say, here's.

Packages. So that's why you see that plural. But if you aren't working with us and you just have one or whatever, just say, Hey, I have something new. Not like I, it's easier to say I have a new way to work together than it is to say, I'm raising the price on what I'm currently doing for you. So how can you

Let's say that you've been charging a certain way, but you actually end up doing more for the client than what you're charging for the new package. Air quotes is all the stuff that you've been doing for them, but haven't been charging for them. Put that in the package and put the new price on it. Right. So do that. Um, and then you just send it to them and you're like, Hey, I value you. I respect you. I respect this relationship. I'm making a change to my business.

Shannon Mattern (14:10.934)

I'm assuming you're going to want to come along. So I'm just going to assume it's a yes. I'm going to ask you which package you want. And I'm going to I'm going to let you tell me none of those or whatever. If that's if that's what you want to tell me. But I'm just going to assume that you value and respect our work just as much as I do and unless you tell me differently. Right. And so. I just this is this is a great way to send a price increase.

Instead of saying, you're just going to start paying more for what you've already been getting. I have new packages. I have a new way to work together, whatever that looks like for you. I remember, gosh, I had a VA service that I was working with back in like 2016, 2017, and I got an email from them like very, very similar to this. And the other thing that they said in that email was like, this is the last.

After this rate increase, you'll be locked in at this for the remainder of our relationship. And I thought like, I was like, oh, that's awesome. Like I know what to expect. You don't have to do that. But if you feel like you're like at a place where you're like, yep, I know that this is, this is the most I would ever charge. You could also add that in to that script. So that's your price increase script. The key part about this script is to assume

that they're going to say yes. And just act like they're going to say yes. And then if they say no, they'll tell you, no. Right. Um, the next script is your scope creep script. This is for all of you who are like, Oh, they just asked for a few pages. It just takes a little bit of time. It's no big deal. Or for Emmanuel who charges for like half of, you know, who lowers her prices and all of that. Now, if you've like.

Shannon Mattern (16:08.352)

I don't think I'd feel an integrity personally to be like, Oh, hey, by the way, for the past year, I've been discounting my prices unknown to you by 50% because my mindset was busted. Here's an invoice for all of the money. I should have charged you. No, we would never do that. We're not doing that. But going forward, we get to start charging that person and we don't have to make a big deal that we weren't. We don't have to announce it like.

Oh, hey, I really haven't been charging you everything I should going forward. I'm going to start charging you everything I should. We don't need to do that. We just need to start doing it. Right. So when a client asks for extras outside of your original package, assume that they are expecting to pay for it, assume that they know that it's extra and just act as if it's a matter of fact that it's extra.

Like the sky is blue pages, extra pages or extra like that should be your energy around it. So if someone's like, oh, hey, can you add a contact page and a portfolio and a blah, blah? Sure, I can totally add that onto the project. Would you like me to send you an estimate?

Shannon Mattern (17:24.106)

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Would you like me to send you an estimate? That's all you have to say. And if they're like, yeah, send me an estimate, then you can say, great, I'll take a look at my project calendar to see when I when my next open spot is because we're not just protecting our money, we're protecting our time. So we're not going to extend this project and overwork and overbook. We're going to.

We're going to also let them know like it's going to cost extra. And once you pay me, once you agree to this and pay me, then you can have the spot on my calendar. So great. I'll also take a look at my project calendar. I'll let you know when my next open spot is. Once you agree to the work and I receive payment, I'll lock that in for you. Yeah, Kate said I love that we asked them that before sending. Yeah, it's instead of just being like, yep, I can take care of that for you. And then.

You send an invoice and they're like, Whoa, I thought that was included. You, you give them the opportunity upfront. One of the biggest philosophies we teach in the web designer academy is we always give our clients a choice. We give them a choice within our boundaries and my boundary is getting paid for the work that I do. So if you ask for things that weren't included, I'm just going to assume.

that you don't know that it's not included. I'm gonna assume that you're gonna absolutely wanna pay me for my work because we're equals. And I'm going to let you know matter of factly that I'd love to do that for you and it's extra. Would you like me to send you an invoice? I don't say extra, I don't say that's not included. Those are the things that make us feel uncomfortable, right? When we're like, oh, those pages aren't included in your original package. It doesn't feel good to say that.

you have thoughts about that make you feel crappy. And so you avoid saying it and then you end up working for free because that feels better than saying that you have a thought like they'll be disappointed or whatever, you feel like it's confrontational or that'll be an additional cost. Like, I don't say that I'm going to add it on. I just I just ask them. I just assume that they know it's going to cost more. And I say, would you like me to send you an estimate?

Shannon Mattern (19:47.582)

If they respond to your question, would you like me to send you an estimate? Like, Oh, I thought that was, that should have been included. That's not included. Like if they, if they're like surprised, you don't have to then even go into, no, it's not, or it's an add-on or that's out of scope or, you know, all of that. Simply restate what your original agreement was and ask the question again.

So our original agreement includes five pages home about blah, blah. So let me know if you'd like me to put together a quote for the additional pages you're requesting and I can get that over to you. So there's no confrontation here. There's no, that's extra. That's not included. Whatever, whatever it's truly. Let me just remind you what you purchased. Would you like me to send you an invoice for the extra things you're asking for?

They have a choice. Yes or no. We don't have to, we don't have to like put these boundaries up. And like, I talk about boundaries a lot, but the way we do boundaries in the web designer Academy is very like win-win and very empowered choices, not. Like I'm putting up my wall. Don't violate my boundaries. Right. Cause that just doesn't feel good. It makes us want to avoid. It makes us want to rather do it for free. Then, um,

then ask for payment, right? We're not even asking for payment. We're just saying, hey, do you want to pay for this? Because if you don't want to pay for it, I'm not doing it. Easy enough, right? Another place y'all are leaving money on the table is not collecting money owed to you, right? You have work that you're doing and you're not getting paid for it. So if that came up on your current client analysis,

that client gives me work and doesn't pay me on time. We need to we expect to get paid. We're equals, right? Like they there's no imbalance here. I do work, you pay me. I don't do the work, you don't pay me. Pretty simple, cut and dry, right? So requesting overdue payment. How much money could you go out and collect in the next week?

Shannon Mattern (22:12.218)

If you sent this script to clients who haven't paid you, right? So it's so simple to your client just following up as I haven't received payment for invoice, whatever from the date, this is the question. Please let me know when I can expect payment. You're making is very specific request. When can I expect to receive payment? If they don't respond within two business days, follow up, reply to the same email thread.

checking in to make sure you received my below email. Sometimes they might not have gotten it. People don't get emails. They might not be ghosting you. Something might be going on. You never know. I always assume the best.

If I don't hear from you, this is where you start to say, I'm going to give you some choices on what's going to happen. If you choose to continue to not pay me. If I don't hear back from you by this date, I'll go ahead and pause our work together. As long as I receive your payment before the state, I'll reschedule your project for the next available spot. So this is like, if I don't hear back from you by Friday, I'll pause.

And as long as I receive your payment before the end of the month, then I can reschedule your restart you or whatever. So this is like projects that have been, we have a whole zombie project restart process in the web designer Academy that we give people a zombie project is like one of those that like the client just doesn't have content ready for you or they've like kind of ghosted you and they're just hanging out there and you're not getting paid, but you're not doing work either. We have a whole process to restart those, but this is where.

you're continuing to do the work and you're not getting paid.

Shannon Mattern (23:59.494)

So and then at the time that you're sending this email, you want to you want to like. Tell them like, hey, I'm not going to start working on your project again until a time that's so inconvenient for them that it's going to compel them to respond, hopefully. Please let me know as soon as possible when I can expect to receive payment. I look forward to hearing back from you. And then if they don't respond, then you get to follow through on what you said you were going to do.

Hey, pro the below emails, I haven't received payment. I'm pausing our work.

And then you reiterate what you said before. And then rarely will a client completely ghost you. But if they do just refer to your contract regarding payments. We have a contract template that we give inside of our program as well. So these are three ways to pick up money that you have been leaving on the table with your clients. Sometimes you have to end a relationship to reclaim your time and emotional mental capacity to

Go do the things to get new clients, right? To just be like, you know, this, I don't, I don't want to continue working with this client. It's not salvageable for whatever reason. Sometimes we outgrow clients. Sometimes they don't treat us how they should treat us. And we have a, we have a script for you to do that. It's been such a pleasure working with you, but I'm ready to let you know after careful consideration.

As of whenever you decide I'll be terminating our service agreement and you can give them reasons if you want, you don't have to, um, this was a tough decision, but I'm taking my business in a different direction. Uh, as your needs have evolved, I feel like you'd be better off with someone else who can give you the extra support that you need. So maybe they're like expecting you to work 24 seven and you're just like, and they need that. And you're like, that's not me. I don't want to.

Shannon Mattern (26:03.95)

Or they are having you do like more virtual assistant type work and you don't want to do that type of work or like whatever it is. Right. You can tell them that your business is going in a different direction. Maybe there are services that you're doing for them that you don't offer to anyone else and you're kind of closing the door and sunsetting those services. Maybe you want to refer them. Maybe you want to train their replacement, train your replacement, but you don't have to give any reason.

You're allowed to just end an agreement, obviously refer to any retainer agreements that you have in place or contracts. We give contract templates for ongoing retainers and maintenance in our program, too. And that's it. You send it and then you end it, you send it, then you end it. So my so your challenge is to choose a client.

to reset your revenue with how you'll do it, which script, what action will you take by when will you do it? So this is the work that we do every single week, every single day, really inside of the web designer Academy. We give our students so many strategies for, um, for stopping undercharging and over delivering, increasing their revenue, increasing their time at working less, making more. And we would be so excited.

to see how we can help you reach your goals. If you're here, if any of this resonated with you, I would love to chat with you to learn more about your business and how we can help you. And the way that we can get started with that is for you to just fill out this form on the revenue reset replay page. Just answer some questions about your business. You should have all of the answers to those after this challenge. And I'll review.

your application. If I think we can help you, I'll, I'll look at your website. I'll look at what you shared in this. If I think we can help you, I'll invite you to watch a additional bonus training all about this, the all detailing all of the strategies that we teach in the web designer Academy program and tell you more about what it looks like to work with us. And we only invite people to work with us who we see.

Shannon Mattern (28:30.194)

I see exactly how I can help you. Right. So you like, I will not invite you to work with us. If I don't think your business is in the right place to successfully implement our strategies. So you truly have nothing to lose by filling out this form and telling me more about your business and giving yourself the opportunity to learn more about our program and what it looks like to work with us like this for an entire year to completely transform.

your web design business. If we think we can help you, we'll invite you to work with us and we'll go from there and then you can make the decision if you feel like it's a good fit for you after learning more about us and how we can help you. And one of our web designer Academy students, Lee, she was able to double her revenue just by doing the things that I recommend in this program.

Shannon Mattern (29:35.768)

So she quit her day job. She found us. She joined the web designer Academy. She was making $5,000 a month. All we did was implement the things that I talked about in this training. And in 60 days, she had almost doubled her revenue and she's continuing to grow well beyond from here. She's got a team, like all of that stuff. So I'm going to go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and

Pick up the money that you're leaving on the table. Go pick the low hanging fruit. Like if you're having mine trash around it, clean up your mind trash. If you go to send, if you, if you're like, Ooh, I really want to raise my price with this client, but I'm afraid that. Run that through a mind trash makeover. Fill out that a form, come to work with us. Let me coach you on it. Cause we do that all the time.

Shannon Mattern (30:29.364)

We don't just coach you on the strategies of processes and systems and all of that stuff. We do all of that stuff. But what we do is when you actually start working with clients.

Then what, where's the support there? That's what we do in the web designer Academy. That's why our program is a one year program. First 90 days, you're implementing all of our strategies. The next nine months, we're helping you in the real world as you're implementing, as clients are reacting, as situations come up and we're coaching you through all of that. So I would absolutely love

to learn more about everyone that is here live or watching this on the replay, you can fill out this form. And if we think that we can help you reach your goals, I'll send you more about what it looks like to work with us.

All right, everyone. Thank you so much for those of you that made the time to be here live. Amazing. So appreciate it. For those of you who are watching the replays, amazing. You can get this. There's no difference between being here live and watching on the replays like you like other people. We want to make sure that you can have access to the information on your own schedule. Our program's the same way too. You don't have to be anywhere live to get the get the benefit.

Um, you'll get the coaching, whether you're there live. And I just, I can't wait for you all to please, please email me. I know that social media, I'm really bad at it. We don't teach you social media marketing because I don't do it. Um, Shannon at web designer Academy, email me, tell me the results that you're getting from using these strategies. I cannot wait to hear them. And I really hope to get to work with you inside of the web designer Academy. So I hope you enjoyed the challenge.

Shannon Mattern (32:27.49)

And I'll see you on the podcast and on my email list and in all of the other places. So have a great rest of your day and a wonderful week and we'll see you soon. Bye.


In this conversation, Shannon Mattern discusses the importance of mindset in pricing and revenue generation. She emphasizes the need to analyze and challenge our thoughts and beliefs about money and pricing to achieve desired results. Shannon also explores the concept of pricing paradigms and how they can impact our ability to charge what we're worth. She then guides listeners through an exercise to identify opportunities for increasing revenue with current clients. Shannon highlights the significance of client satisfaction and the need to assess whether pricing aligns with the value provided. She encourages taking action to reset revenue with individual clients and provides strategies for having confident money conversations.

She emphasizes the importance of selling oneself on pricing and taking action to increase revenue, and discusses strategies for resetting revenue in a web design business. She emphasizes the importance of analyzing current clients and making adjustments to pricing and services. Shannon also provides scripts for confident money conversations, including price increases, scope creep, and requesting overdue payment. She highlights the need to change mindset and power dynamics with clients and offers guidance on ending client relationships when necessary. Shannon concludes by inviting listeners to join the Web Designer Academy for further support and coaching.


  • Analyze your current clients to identify areas where you can make adjustments to pricing and services.
  • Use confident money conversation scripts to communicate changes to clients, including price increases and addressing scope creep.
  • Request overdue payment from clients and set clear expectations for payment terms.
  • Consider ending client relationships when necessary to reclaim time and emotional capacity.
  • Analyze and challenge your thoughts and beliefs about money and pricing to achieve desired results.
  • Examine your pricing paradigms and consider how they may be impacting your ability to charge what you're worth.
  • Identify opportunities for increasing revenue with current clients by assessing client satisfaction and pricing.
  • Take action to reset revenue with individual clients and have confident money conversations.
  • Sell yourself on your pricing and take action to increase revenue.
  • Join the Web Designer Academy for ongoing support and coaching to transform your web design business.
A smiling person with a tooth showing on their chin is looking indoors.

Shannon Mattern
Web Designer Academy


I help ambitious women web designers reclaim their time, book web design projects they love, and make more as a freelance web designer than they ever thought possible.

I created the Web Designer Academy to give you everything I wished I would have had when I started freelancing:  step-by-step processes and fill-in-the-blank templates for your messaging, marketing, packages, consultations, sales and project management combined with next-level support so that you have everything you need to create a consistently profitable web design business doing work you love for clients you love.