What to Say When Potential Clients Tell You They Can’t Afford It

Shannon Mattern: Welcome to the Profitable Web Designer, a podcast for web designers who want to work less and make more money. I'm your host Shannon Mattern, founder of The Web Designer Academy, where we've helped hundreds of web designers stop under charging, overworking, and create profitable sustainable web design businesses.

Shannon Mattern: Hey there. Welcome back to the Profitable Web Designer Podcast. And today I'm talking about one of my favorite topics that I love to talk about on the show, and that's money mindset. Specifically what to say when potential clients tell you they can't afford it. So, fair warning, I'm about to get up on my soapbox for a minute because when you completely restructure your pricing because you've been undercharging and overworking and you just cannot keep going like you are now, and when you know deepen your bones without a shadow of a doubt, that the value your clients will get over the long term from working with you is many, many, many times more what they could get from doing it by themselves or not doing it at all. You are going to get people telling you that they would love to work with you, that what you offer sounds amazing, that they know it could really, really help them, but they can't afford it.

Shannon Mattern: And here's where you have a choice. You can decide, oh no, my price is too high. See, I knew I wouldn't able to charge this much. I better lower my prices. Or Oh my gosh, I love this person. I really, really, really want to help them. I better lower my prices. And then you go right back to Undercharging Overdelivering and running a completely unsustainable unfulfilling web design business. Or you can decide that response is a piece of data for me to note and track and I get to decide how I want to think about it and respond to it. And I'll dig into more of that here because I have sold so many things in my business journey at every price point imaginable from free all the way up to a $60,000 a year consulting gig. And when I think back on it, I always had thoughts about who could afford what at different prices.

Shannon Mattern: So that $60,000 consulting gig, they had a mil multimillion dollar annual budget in my mind, they could afford it and I wasn't gonna take a penny less that free training. I'd feel so guilty when people got mad at me because in the free training I would teach them how to get their website set up and they'd be like, I thought this was free, and now you're telling me that I have to spend a hundred, a hundred dollars on hosting. And so I'd like bend over backwards to help them like save all this money. 'cause I just felt so bad about it. I sold a $29 a month membership at one point in my business journey. Some people bought it and thought it was a steal. Other people were like, that's way too much. I can't afford that. I had, when I launched the web designer Academy, it was $600 for an entire year, way back in 2016.

Shannon Mattern: Some people bought it and other people were like, there is no way I could afford it. I've sold $2,000 courses, $5,000 coaching programs, $10,000 coaching programs, $97 workshops, $147 workshops, you name it, I have offered it. And there will always be people who can and can't afford your prices. And the problem becomes, when you make it mean something about you that you are not good enough to charge that much. Or when you make it mean something about the market as a whole, like I've the market, can't afford it. It's not about you, it's not about the market. It is about that specific individual person. And there are so many reasons that people say that they can't afford something. There are people who literally cannot make the math work, who do not have the money, who don't, don't have access to the money, who choose things like, oh, paying their bills and putting food on the table and keeping a roof over their head, over working with you.

Shannon Mattern: These people are making the best decisions for themselves and we absolutely respect that decision. And I believe you should as a business owner, and I do as a business owner, and I don't ever want my clients to experience financial hardship by working with me, but I also get to stay out of their wallet and stay out of out of their decisions, right? I get to stay out Like when I think, oh yeah, this multimillion dollar company can absolutely afford $60,000. That is a judgment I am making about what they can and can't afford. And I get to stay out of their wallet just as much as I get to stay out of the wallet of somebody who is choosing to pay the bills and keep the lights on and keep a roof over their head. I get to stay out of their wallet too. So you have to choose prices that are profitable and sustainable for you and not make other people's decisions mean that you should have to change your prices, right?

Shannon Mattern: Their choice does not mean that you are charging too much. And this is one of the biggest, biggest challenges I see for web designers before they come to work with us in those early days of coming to work with us when they're faced with someone telling them that they would love to work with them, but they can't afford them. And then they're like, well, but I really need the money so I'm gonna say yes to this. And they just perpetuate the cycle over and over and over again. So I just want you to know that there are people who literally just wouldn't pay that much for whatever you're selling at whatever price point you're selling at, at no matter how good you are at sales or how much money they have or don't have. There are certain things that people just don't value. And I'm sure you know somebody in your life who probably has a lot of money but drives like a car that you'd be like, they can afford something more than that.

Shannon Mattern: Like, why don't they get a new car? Because they don't value that. Like there are certain things that I that I love, but I just like, once it gets past this certain point, I'm just not gonna pay that much for it. Like I don't value it that much. But that doesn't mean that you're charging too much. And for some people, and this is where it gets really interesting, there are situations where when I say I can't afford it, and a lot of people like I have this conversation a lot, and we have a lot inside the web designer Academy two, I can't afford. It really means if I spend this money, I'm taking a risk and if I'm not successful, I'll be ashamed and embarrassed. And for me specifically, I think, and my husband might be mad at me for wasting this money too.

Shannon Mattern: And if I don't spend any money on this and it ends up not working out, well then I didn't really fail because I didn't lose any money. Like I would tie money and the loss of money, the potential loss of money, like meaning I spend this money to enroll in this coaching program or to do this thing or whatever. And if it doesn't work out, like it's completely outta my control whether it works out or not. If it doesn't work out, then I have failed. I have lost money. And losing money is like the worst thing to me, at least for a long time. That has been my thought process. And I've done a lot of work on like my money mindset, you know, to change those beliefs. But the flip side of that was like, okay, well if I don't spend money on it and I fail, well then I didn't really fail. Like that's not that big of a deal, so that's okay, thinking about it now I'm just like, what are you talking about? But it's also a decision that people are making for themselves that has nothing to do with you. Do you see how those thought processes that people go through when they're making financial decisions have nothing to do with you?

Shannon Mattern: The thing that we're most afraid of is that they're gonna be like, who does she think she is to charge that much? But nine times outta 10, that is not a line of thinking in someone's mind. And if it is like I don't wanna work with them as a client anyway, right? But I just want you to know that if you are the kind of person who thinks, ugh, like it feels so, so risky and heavy to to part with money because if it doesn't work out, then it's like a, a big failure. It's totally normal for that to be how you think because that is how our brains are wired. And I recently read this book called The Happiness Advantage Advantage by Sean Acher or H R A C H O R, not sure how to say it. And it was a, it was, I'm not gonna lie, it was a pretty dry and academic and corporate book and definitely written for like a certain demographic.

Shannon Mattern: But there was one thing that just jumped right off the page when I was reading it and I was like, oh my gosh, I am so totally normal and this is why I get so worried about money sometimes. And this is why people tell me that they know that working with us in our program is exactly what they need, that they are like a nine or of 10, nine out of 10, and belief that our program will work for them. Or this is why people tell web designers like, oh my gosh, I would so love to work with you, but I can't afford it. And they say these things and they're like, you know, it's so funny. It's like not a funny like laughing app, but funny like mindset wise, it's like they wanna wait. We hear all the time, people are like, they want, I want to wait until I have the actual result of working with you to come work with you .

Shannon Mattern: It's like, I wanna wait until I have more clients, higher prices and more money and then I'll come work with you. And I'm always like, well that's counterintuitive because that's what we're going to help you create. And you guys hear it as web designers like, oh, I wanna wait till I have more clients, more money, more sales until I come to work with you to build the website for me, that's gonna help me get more clients, more money and more sales. And you might be like, oh my gosh, like, but that's when I do the, when we work together, that's what you're going to create. And so it's like you think, well, that's counterintuitive. And I even have people say to me like, I know it's counterintuitive, but I'm gonna come and wait. I'm gonna come and work with you guys after I've already created the results that you're gonna help me create when I come to work with you.

Shannon Mattern: But so when I read this book, I was like, actually, it's not counterintuitive at all. Like it makes perfect sense why people would safest to me, it makes perfect sense why your clients say to you, I know you can help me, but it feels too risky, so I'm gonna go try to do it on my own and then I'll come back and work with you. And it's like, well, at that point you wouldn't have needed to come work with us, right , but it's their brain working exactly as it should. So in chapter five of that book, the author talks about a concept called emotional hijacking. And we call this mind trash in the web designer academy. It's called lots of different things in lots of different spaces. And this person, the guy that wrote this book is a, I think he is a, is he a neuroscientist?

Shannon Mattern: He has ba basically he's like an academic and positive psychology. I, I believe that's what he does. And so he talks about emotional hijacking, how your thoughts and beliefs cause your brain and body to release chemicals that create feelings in your body that drive your actions. And this is actually a concept we teach and use inside the web designer academy where we're coaching on like mindset stuff. But the sentence that jumped out at me was, neuroscientists have found that financial losses are actually processed in the same areas of the brain that respond to mortal danger. Let me say that again. Neuroscientists have found that financial losses are actually processed in the same areas of the brain that respond to mortal danger. And I'm like, oh, no wonder that people say to me logically, I know this is exactly what I need to do, but I'm too afraid to do it because it's equating to mortal danger.

Shannon Mattern: Like if I lose this money that feels like mortal danger to me and I get it. Listen, I felt so validated personally by reading that because I'm like, oh, that is why I literally feel like I am having a panic attack when things like the stripe issue that I talked about back in an earlier episode happened, or I have, I have a launch that doesn't go as planned and I am like feeling like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna lose everything. So I just felt very validated to be like, okay, nothing is wrong with me. My brain is working at exactly as it should, and I get to to actually work on like deconditioning that fear response because what I know to be true, what I have evidence of is that I actually have way more control over my results when I shift my thinking in a positive way.

Shannon Mattern: Just like he's talking about in the Happiness advantage that your thoughts create your feelings, drive your actions, create your results. So negative thoughts are gonna create negative results and positive thoughts are gonna create positive results. And not positive like Pollyanna thoughts, but like empowering thoughts. And so how can you create empowering thoughts around money and all of those things so that you don't trigger a fear response. So obviously if you've taken our profitable pricing framework training at https://webdesigneracademy.com/pricing, you know that we talk about pricing paradigms and you know, expense hybrid and investment mindset and some of the thoughts that people think in each of those paradigms. And I mean the thoughts drive the actions, create the results, right? And so we talk like if we're getting unwanted results such as, oh hey, I'm struggling. Like, let me think about an example for your clients. Like, oh hey, like I really wanna grow my business.

Shannon Mattern: I don't have the right website in place, but I'm afraid to spend money on this because it feels like mortal danger to me because they feel like it's gonna go away forever. How do we talk about what we do in terms of how it's going to help them gain more, right? So that's one of the things that we do inside of our program is we help web designers transform deliverables and results and pre-frame the value and really help their clients start thinking about everything they're going to gain instead of what they could possibly lose, right? So of course, if you are thinking about losing money more than you're thinking about making money, you're lighting the part of your brain that's like, this is dangerous. And then you go into one of the four fear responses, fight, flight, freeze, fawn, right? . So fawn is like saying yes, and then ghosting flight and freeze would be like just completely ghosting.

Shannon Mattern: And fight would be something like, who do you think you are to charge that much? Like how dare you, right? So if your cl like your clients react, depending on how they think about money in reaction to your price, are going into their own response to that. So it's not about you, I just want you to know it's not about you. It's not about you, it's not about you. When your clients say they can't afford it, it's not about you. It's not about the market. And the problem is when you make that about you, when you make their decisions that are coming from a place of them preventing their own failure, preventing loss, preventing danger, you make that about you. That's what we don't wanna do. And so we are going to talk to clients that make decisions based on preventing failure rather than giving themselves the best possible chance for success.

Shannon Mattern: That is just inev inevitable. You're going to talk to people with what we call expense mindset. And you can't make that mean anything about you. And you know, as the web designer that it's actually a bigger risk to their future success and their goals to not give themselves the right tools and to not work with you and to not get your expert guidance because then they're preventing themselves from making more money. And if you don't believe that, that's where your work is, you need to get sold on yourself and really believe in who you are and what you bring to the table and know that like, oh, they are actually preventing themselves from getting what they want by not working with me and that they're missing out, right? So when it comes to you and your own decisions about what support and mentorship you get in your business, a lot of times, especially when I hear from people like, I know this is exactly where I wanna be, but I wanna get the results of having worked with you before I come to work with you.

Shannon Mattern: It's like you think you're preventing yourself from losing money, but you're actually preventing yourself from making more. And here's why I say this. It's like I will never tell a client who comes to work with us. And I don't think that you can should tell your clients this either, that you can guarantee their results. Like you can't. I cannot guarantee the results of any single person that comes to work with us just as much as you can't guarantee the results of your own web design clients, like they have to actually do their part and do the things that they're responsible for. They need to have an actual like business that works. No website is going to make their business work, right? They have to already have like a proven idea that works and they have to do their marketing and they have to do their part, right?

Shannon Mattern: So you can't guarantee their results. You can guarantee that you're going to give them the tool that's going to help them create the results and that you are going to deliver it and all of those pieces and parts. But they are a thousand percent going to have setbacks and failures on their business journey. You are a thousand percent going to have setbacks and failures on your business journey. It is inevitable. It's unavoidable. Money will be attached to some of those failures and setbacks in terms of maybe a client ghosts halfway through a project or maybe you undercharge or maybe a client turns into a nightmare or whatever. And you can either navigate those on your own or you can get guidance from an expert. And so when it comes to your clients, that's why it's so important to talk about what they can create in their business and life as a result of having the website that you create for them.

Shannon Mattern: Because if they can't see how giving you money in exchange for a website is a gain rather than a loss, you will hear, I can't afford it more often than not. But still it has everything to do with them and nothing to do with you. So like I said, that's the belief system. I personally, like I had an expense minded belief system for the first few years of my business and it truly kept me stuck, hustling and scared. And that belief ran deep for me. It affected everything. It even affected my own pricing. And it's so refreshing to hear honestly that like my brain was operating as it should , like that financial loss is akin to mortal danger in the area of your brain. And we can also rewire our brains. We can also, with deliberate action, we can change our automatic responses to our thoughts, right?

Shannon Mattern: And so I think things like I can't charge, like it's so funny, like in terms of it affected not only my decisions on what I would spend money on, it affected my pricing, right? So I think things like I can't charge that much. What if my client pays me their hard-earned money and then gets no value whatsoever from the website I build from them and then they fail and then their partners met them and they lose everything and then it's all my fault. So I better keep my prices low so that if they fail, they don't fail as hard, right? And so I projected that mortal danger that I believed in my own brain onto my clients. I bet if you're undercharging, that's part of why is that you have thoughts about losing money that feel very dangerous to you and you're also trying to protect and prevent that for other people.

Shannon Mattern: And so if I didn't fix my own money mindset and it had nothing to do with if whether or not I could had the money or if I could make the math work, but it was because I truly didn't like believe in myself, then I couldn't let my clients pay me that much either. For years I didn't invest money in myself in my business, I didn't give myself the help that that I needed, the coaching that I needed and the mentorship that I needed. And it was reflected in my pricing. I kept my one-on-one client work prices super low instead of doing the internal work that I needed to do to value myself and raise my prices because I didn't know that was the problem. I went for volume on the scalable side of my web design business and instead I invested in hustle. I invested hustle instead of money.

Shannon Mattern: And so that is only sustainable for a certain period of time as well. 'cause you will run out of hustle like it's . You can't keep going at that rate for very long. So when we project our own money mindset and our own spending habits and rules and idiosyncrasies onto our clients in general, and then we lump everyone into this nebulous group we name, they then we're like, well, they can't afford it or people won't pay that much, right? We generalize it. And so one person says, oh, they'd love to work with us, but they can't afford it. And we decide that their decision applies to everyone this nebulous day and then make decisions about our pricing for everyone else from that one interaction. And so I recently talked about the decision I made to restructure our web designer academy pricing back in episode 44.

Shannon Mattern: And we actually made the decision to lower our prices, but it, it was not being driven from all of the mine trash that it would have been driven by, let's say three or four years ago. Because I was operating from like mortal danger on financial decisions. We had actually done a full on analysis of our data for the past three years at the three different price points that we were offering the web designer academy at that we had tested out over the past three years. And when I say test, I say that loosely because I had made the full on decision like this is the price from now on. But we did a data analysis and we made the decision to restructure our pricing based on hundreds of people, pieces of data, right? Hundreds if not thousands of applications, hundreds of enrollments, all of those pieces, and looking at a trend of who was saying yes and all of those things, not on one person telling me that they couldn't afford it.

Shannon Mattern: And that has come from years of working on my own money mindset and it's honestly never ending work. I get snapped back into that. Like that mortal danger thing gets triggered in me and I get snapped back into my old thinking from time to time. But back in those early days when I was just starting my business, I made not making money or losing money mean mortal danger, that I was causing harm to my family. And I didn't even feel like it wasn't even a failure thing. That's why I've never really resonated with like, oh, I failed because I don't mind failing. Like I don't mind making a mistake. I don't mind messing up, I don't mind not being perfect, but to lose money felt like mortal danger, right? And so because I wasn't willing to lose money, like I said, I hustled instead I, I invested time and that hustle made me enough money to replace my day job income, but it nearly broke me.

Shannon Mattern: And I wasn't taking care of myself. I gained 25 pounds. I was physically and mentally exhausted. I was damaging my relationships with my friends and family because I was putting work first and then I ran outta hustle and doing it all on my own. Just wasn't working anymore. Not physically, mentally, or financially. And I had to raise my prices. I had to at that point because I had caused so much harm to myself by hustling that I was like, oh wait, this isn't working either. Like undercharging and over-delivering is causing me physical harm. So now , I need to actually raise my prices because that doesn't feel so scary anymore because I'm actually experiencing the negative results of my, the mortal fear and danger that I was thinking, right? So something had to change and that's where I had to shift. And I had to completely decide that I couldn't be afraid of money anymore, losing it, taking it from others, all of the things.

Shannon Mattern: And so I tell you all of this to tell you what to say. When potential clients tell you that they can't afford it, you are going to have clients tell you that they can't afford it. And you can either agree with them and lower your price. You can do nothing and let them go. Or you can remind them one more time of what is possible for them when they decide to work with you. And then just let them decide. Because when you are so bought into what you bring to the table and you know that working with you is gonna be transformative for your clients, you can absolutely offer payment plans if you want. You can stretch out your project timeline if you wanna make it easier to for them. You can do a smaller fast track project that's going to like get part of it done for them and go all in on the bigger project.

Shannon Mattern: But whatever you decide if you want to work with that person and you're not doing it because you are afraid of harming that, you're not like saying, oh, here are some other options. Like I totally understand, here are some other ways for us to work together. And you're not doing that from a place of, oh my gosh, I have to save them or yeah, like they're right, I am too expensive, so I need to lower, lower my price. You can do those things, but you need to understand that whatever you offer them has to be something that works for you in terms of time, capacity, and money. And you don't make that offer based on believing that you are charging too much. Because what you really get to understand on a deep level is that when your clients tell you they can't afford it, it's not about you, it's about them.

Shannon Mattern: So don't go into that place of like, oh no, they're right. I'm charging too much. I'm not good enough. I'm self-taught. I'm an imposter. How dare I charge this much? I haven't been doing it long enough. My portfolio was good enough. They're right. And make it all about you. And then lower your price to prove yourself. If someone tells you that they can't afford it, you get to say, I'll be here for you whenever. If that changes, I'd love to work with you. Just reach out. Like you can say that. You can also say, what were you thinking about spending for this project? Right? And if they come back with a number that you're like, oh, okay, well for that, we can remove this, this, this, and this, and I can do this for you for that price, right? We're not gonna do all of the same things for them at that price, but you can say, here's what I can do at that price.

Shannon Mattern: But don't lower your price unless you want to for reasons that are aligned and empowering for you for reasons that will help you reach your goals faster. Whether those goals be more time, money, or capacity, you are the only one that has to hold your value before anyone else will value you. So you have a decision to make when someone says, that's more than I wanted to spend, or I can't afford it, or whatever. You get to decide whether or not you're going to be like, I totally understand. If anything changes, just let me know by X and we can move forward. You can decide to say, what number could you afford? And then you can decide, yeah, for that we can do X, Y, and Z part of the project and we can start there. Or you can say, yeah, that doesn't really match up with what I'm able to do for you, but thank you so much and I wish you the best of luck for whatever.

Shannon Mattern: But you don't have to be like, oh my gosh, you're right. I need to help them. I have to lower my price, or I'm charging too much. Don't lower your price. You have to hold your value before anyone else will value you. And when they make the decision to work with you, they're also making the decision to value themselves and go all in on their future. So don't lower your price. Don't take the opportunity away from them to experience the transformation of being like, oh, you know what? I'm gonna think about this in terms of what I'll get versus what I'm spending. And if it's still a no, if something changes, you'd love to work with them to help them get the results that they want in the future. Hold your value and the right clients will come. Not gonna say it's not gonna be easy.

Shannon Mattern: You're gonna worry. You know? And especially if you have your own like, Ooh, not making money or losing money equals mortal danger. It's gonna be extra uncomfortable for you. But I just want you to know that you hold all the power, you hold all the power. Even if you decide to undercharge because you need the money, we don't want you to do that. But at the same time, I'm not the one responsible for paying your bills, right? So make an empowered decision. Don't make their I can't afford it. Mean something about you. So the other thing I want you to know is that if you are afraid to invest in yourself by joining our coaching program or any other coaching program that you're considering, whether it's ours or someone else's, because you're worried that you will fail and lose money, the only way you will fail is if you join and then take no action on what you learn, right?

Shannon Mattern: So here's the thing, fail means like completely get all the way to the end and like just never finish, right? You are going to have roadblocks, you're gonna have challenging situations, you're gonna have things that don't go the way that you expect, whether you come work with us or not, or join someone else's program or not. The goal of being inside of that is to learn how to think differently. Learn how to take different actions than what what you've taken. Get questions answered. Find the places where you get stuck. Find the places where you consistently end up stopping yourself. Or when you fight flight freeze fawn, like what makes you feel fear and where do you back out of the process? What opportunities do you have to just learn how to think in new ways, right? If you're coming into a program worried that you're going to fail, thoughts, create your feelings, drive your reactions, create your results, right?

Shannon Mattern: So if you come into a program thinking, I am here to learn everything I can, trust the process, ask for help, lean on people, and I'm here to get what I came for, and I am committed to taking all of the actions that I need to take in order to create a return on my investment. And then some. That's a totally different mindset, and that's so much more empowering and it's not triggering that place in your brain that's like mortal danger, mortal danger. So that's how I want you to approach any investment in any course or program, whether it's ours or not. It's like trust the process. Let people guide you. Put what you learn into action. If it doesn't work, don't make that mean that it doesn't work for you. Make it mean, oh, it's not working. I need to get some support. I need to see if there are any other ways I can come at this.

Shannon Mattern: I can. I need to examine my thinking about it. And maybe you don't trust yourself because you've joined other programs and haven't made progress, but what if you've never worked on your mindset inside a program before? That's one of the big things that we hear from people who before they come to work with us, is that it's like, oh, I never realized this is exactly what was getting in my way. It's like, what if you were just always given steps in strategy and there was no really way to dig in when you got stuck about like why you felt stuck? And so our program is structured to be exactly what I wish I would have had to give myself back when I first got started, because I want our students to experience the transformation that happens when you decide to value yourself at that level.

Shannon Mattern: So to wrap up, I want to invite you to start thinking this way about yourself and your clients. I want you to start thinking this way about your clients. So whoever you are talking to, whenever you have a consultation call booked. Whenever you're doing outreach and connecting with people, I want you to think if they spend this money with me, if they give me this money, I know without a shadow of a doubt that I will deliver exactly the right thing to them so that they can recoup their investment as quickly as possible. They are capable, they are brilliant, they are responsible, and they absolutely can go on to create the results I know are possible for them. And I am committed to working with them to deliver the best website possible. And because of that, I can absolutely charge that much for a website because I know deep in my bones that I can deliver something that empowers them to get the results that I want.

Shannon Mattern: And so if you would work with your clients at that high of a, of a commitment level, right? In terms of like I'm committed to listening to them, to doing the work, to figuring out what they need to going through this process with them to learning about their business so that I can deliver something that I know is going to help them apply that same thinking. If you are going to enroll in a business coaching program to help you grow your business, I know without a shadow of a doubt, I will do whatever it takes. I will go all in, I will take all of the actions, and I will treat myself as if I'm my client. And I will put that level of effort and commitment into my own business that I would for a client because it's also important for me to be successful and to recoup my investment.

Shannon Mattern: And that's what we want you to believe. We want you to treat yourself and your own business like you would treat a client. And so we're here to help you do the internal work to help you do that. But I just want you to know, when a client says that they can't afford it, that is their own decision. I think I've said it 15 times during this podcast episode, that has nothing to do with you. It doesn't mean that you are charging too much, right? There is a client out there for every single price point, every single price point. Has your mindset caught up to the price that you want to charge? Do you have mind trash around your pricing that when someone says they can't afford it, you make it mean something negative about you and your business and it holds you back from marketing or selling or doing the things that you need to do?

Shannon Mattern: That's where your work is. That is where your work is not trying to figure out like what's the perfect price point that the the nebulous like general market will pay for this, right? And so if you are ready to do that work and explore that and get started with that and you want some support, we would love to work with you. You can go to https://webdesigneracademy.com and you can book a discovery call with me. We'll chat about your business and your thoughts and your mindset and all of the things. And if it feels like a good fit to work together, we'll talk more about what that looks like. Or you can fill out our Web Designer Academy application, so at https://webdesigneracademy.com/apply and tell us all about your business. And then we will chat back and forth. And if it feels like a good fit, we'll invite you to learn more about our program. So we would love to help you with this because it is such an opportunity for you to completely transform how you think about your pricing and how you interact with potential clients and how you respond when they say that they can't afford it. That could really change everything for you. So I can't wait to see your application come through, and I will see you right back here next week on the podcast. Bye.

Speaker 2: This podcast is part of the sound advice FM network. Sound advice, FM Women's Voices amplified.